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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Looking for New Receiver with XT32 - Denon x4100 or 4520?

Hey Guys,
I'm looking to find the cheapest receiver that gets me into XT32. I have no problem buying refurbished. I'm leaning towards the x4000. Any thoughts on the reliability and performance of the receiver? It seems to be about $799 everywhere, or $669 refurbished at Accessories4less. Any preference for where to buy? Any other receivers I should be considering? 4K, wifi, etc. are not important. I run a 5.1 system with Pioneer towers, HTD in ceiling surrounds, and a Rythmik FV15hp that is on order. I'm simply hoping to step up my sound quality with XT32, and have a reliable receiver

Edit - I'm now looking to spend $999 and it's down to the x4100 or the 4520.
 

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If you can bump your budget up a little, you can get a great deal on the Denon 4520 right now. 2 year old flagship that listed for $2500...now around $1K.
 

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Hey Guys,
I'm looking to find the cheapest receiver that gets me into XT32. I have no problem buying refurbished. I'm leaning towards the x4000. Any thoughts on the reliability and performance of the receiver? It seems to be about $799 everywhere, or $669 refurbished at Accessories4less. Any preference for where to buy? Any other receivers I should be considering? 4K, wifi, etc. are not important. I run a 5.1 system with Pioneer towers, HTD in ceiling surrounds, and a Rythmik FV15hp that is on order. I'm simply hoping to step up my sound quality with XT32, and have a reliable receiver
Both the X4000 and Denon 4520 are great receivers. If you are JUST looking for something to power your speakers, then the Denon 4520 will probably be preferred. If you are looking for something with a little bit more modern connectivity, the X4000 has an advantage.

Cruthfield
Amazon
Newegg
Accessories4less are all fine places to purchase the receiver from.

Another note:

What is your current receiver?
If you're looking to invest about $650 (give or take) in improving your sound quality, room treatments might be a more logical approach.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Both the X4000 and Denon 4520 are great receivers. If you are JUST looking for something to power your speakers, then the Denon 4520 will probably be preferred. If you are looking for something with a little bit more modern connectivity, the X4000 has an advantage.

Cruthfield
Amazon
Newegg
Accessories4less are all fine places to purchase the receiver from.

Another note:

What is your current receiver?
If you're looking to invest about $650 (give or take) in improving your sound quality, room treatments might be a more logical approach.
So I have (2) receivers. A Denon 1713 and a Tascam PA-R200. The Denon was my main receiver and last year I went looking for a bedroom receiver. A forum member recommended the Tascam on eBay when a seller was blowing them out at $188. It's essentially a high end Onkyo/Integra and is a beast that has every feature one could ask for besides decent room correction...Why a receiver of that level has only 2EQ is beyond me. I've been using it as my main receiver, as I like the menu and some of the features. I do however worry that my bass is a bit boomy and wish I had some better room correction, because I'm essentially running without any.

I've invested in a nice Rythmik sub, and worry I'm doing a disservice not getting things properly calibrated. At the same time, I'm certainly no audiophile, so who knows, I may not even be able to tell the difference. Maybe simply putting the 1713 back in the main setup with Audyssey XT is the answer?

I've read about the better build quality of the 4520, but it really does start to break the bank. If I can airplay, get Pandora, and Spotify, I'm good to go. I don't need 4k, wifi, bluetooth, etc. However, if I did want to spend nearly $1k, I think I'd maybe get the x4100 to better future proof with having all those features, because you never know
 

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So I have (2) receivers. A Denon 1713 and a Tascam PA-R200. The Denon was my main receiver and last year I went looking for a bedroom receiver. A forum member recommended the Tascam on eBay when a seller was blowing them out at $188. It's essentially a high end Onkyo/Integra and is a beast that has every feature one could ask for besides decent room correction...Why a receiver of that level has only 2EQ is beyond me. I've been using it as my main receiver, as I like the menu and some of the features. I do however worry that my bass is a bit boomy and wish I had some better room correction, because I'm essentially running without any.

I've invested in a nice Rythmik sub, and worry I'm doing a disservice not getting things properly calibrated. At the same time, I'm certainly no audiophile, so who knows, I may not even be able to tell the difference. Maybe simply putting the 1713 back in the main setup with Audyssey XT is the answer?

I've read about the better build quality of the 4520, but it really does start to break the bank. If I can airplay, get Pandora, and Spotify, I'm good to go. I don't need 4k, wifi, bluetooth, etc. However, if I did want to spend nearly $1k, I think I'd maybe get the x4100 to better future proof with having all those features, because you never know
There really isn't a thing as future proofing. That's one reason why I purchase last years model units. I don't care about an abundance of features so I went with the X4000 when it was only $800 because of the release of the X4100. I'm a big fan of purchasing last years models because of the price discount and gathering a year's worth of reviews and such. I once had Audyssey XT and never had an issue with boomy bass. So I think a Denon X2000 would be fine. But again, it's your call. I think you would receiver better benefits with a Denon X2000 and save a little more for some acoustic panels.

If you are having boomy bass, you can try a few things to help correct it manually:

One of the perks with the X4000 and XT32 is that it plays back a sub rumble to correctly set the volume on your sub. Audyssey XT doesn't do that.

What is the size of your room, specific model sub(s) and gain levels? and sub level via your receiver? Over emphasis could add boomy bass if you have a large, beefy sub in a small bedroom.

Also, the room correction is trying to fix nulls and peaks in subs. Which for nulls, is impossible to do. So, if you are getting boomy bass at a specific frequency, you probably should also invest in another sub.

If you had $650 (again, give or take) the best benefit would probably not being purchasing another receiver. That room size is very important. I have an Outlaw LFM-1 Plus which is a dual ported 12in sub. I also have an SVS PB1000 which is a single ported 10". I have both subs in a 1200 cu. ft. bedroom set-up and I enjoy the PB1000 more. The Outlaw is simply too large for my room. However, it's still a fantastic sub, but the gain is currently at 25% which isn't being used at full potential by any means.
 

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To add to bgtighe23, if your sub is placed in a corner that can cause "boominess" as well. If you can, try it not in a corner and see what you think.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
There really isn't a thing as future proofing. That's one reason why I purchase last years model units. I don't care about an abundance of features so I went with the X4000 when it was only $800 because of the release of the X4100. I'm a big fan of purchasing last years models because of the price discount and gathering a year's worth of reviews and such. I once had Audyssey XT and never had an issue with boomy bass. So I think a Denon X2000 would be fine. But again, it's your call. I think you would receiver better benefits with a Denon X2000 and save a little more for some acoustic panels.

If you are having boomy bass, you can try a few things to help correct it manually:

One of the perks with the X4000 and XT32 is that it plays back a sub rumble to correctly set the volume on your sub. Audyssey XT doesn't do that.

What is the size of your room, specific model sub(s) and gain levels? and sub level via your receiver? Over emphasis could add boomy bass if you have a large, beefy sub in a small bedroom.

Also, the room correction is trying to fix nulls and peaks in subs. Which for nulls, is impossible to do. So, if you are getting boomy bass at a specific frequency, you probably should also invest in another sub.

If you had $650 (again, give or take) the best benefit would probably not being purchasing another receiver. That room size is very important. I have an Outlaw LFM-1 Plus which is a dual ported 12in sub. I also have an SVS PB1000 which is a single ported 10". I have both subs in a 1200 cu. ft. bedroom set-up and I enjoy the PB1000 more. The Outlaw is simply too large for my room. However, it's still a fantastic sub, but the gain is currently at 25% which isn't being used at full potential by any means.
So I have a few things going on. We just moved to a new home with a basement that I'm using. Its about 4500 cubic ft. I'm currently using my Tascam, so I have no sub eq. My sub is a sb2000, and it's in the corner.

I have a rythmik fv15hp on order, and that has started my interest in xt32. I worry having the nice sub hooked up to the Tascam with poor eq will hurt my sound quality.

I suppose I could try putting the 1713 back in the mix with xt and see how I like it, but part of me wants to also try xt32
 

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Discussion Starter #8
By the way, I like the tascam receiver, but what do people do with these high end receivers and low end eq? Is there any way to adjust things?
 

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So I have a few things going on. We just moved to a new home with a basement that I'm using. Its about 4500 cubic ft. I'm currently using my Tascam, so I have no sub eq. My sub is a sb2000, and it's in the corner.

I have a rythmik fv15hp on order, and that has started my interest in xt32. I worry having the nice sub hooked up to the Tascam with poor eq will hurt my sound quality.

I suppose I could try putting the 1713 back in the mix with xt and see how I like it, but part of me wants to also try xt32
I would either cancel the order with the Rythmik sub and get another SB2000 or sell the SB2000 and get a 2nd Rythmik sub. Dual subs of opposite brand and one being sealed while the other ported will be difficult to dial in, though still possible. It's even more difficult if you can't visually "see" what your subs are doing without REW. You will get better results with two of the same sub. You will notice some output gain, but there's still a chance of nulls. The two different subs are tuned differently which can causes nulls - the two subs canceling each other out.

Adding XT32 will help, if a part of you wants to do it, then by all means, it's your choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Oh I don't plan on mixing the subs. The sb2000 was bought for the old house living room, and had wife approval. Once the rythmik shows up, the svs will become part of a 2.1 setup in our new living room, and the rythmik will be in the basement home theater.

I understand the advantage of 2 like subs, and may get there one day. Once the rythmik gets here, I will play with location, and try to get things as best i can. For now, I'm just using the svs as a place holder.

I was hoping a new receiver with xt32 would help me get things as good as I can.

By the way, does xt32 provide any kind of room graphs?
 

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Oh I don't plan on mixing the subs. The sb2000 was bought for the old house living room, and had wife approval. Once the rythmik shows up, the svs will become part of a 2.1 setup in our new living room, and the rythmik will be in the basement home theater.

I understand the advantage of 2 like subs, and may get there one day. Once the rythmik gets here, I will play with location, and try to get things as best i can. For now, I'm just using the svs as a place holder.

I was hoping a new receiver with xt32 would help me get things as good as I can.

By the way, does xt32 provide any kind of room graphs?
No it doesn't. That is a program called REW.
 

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Oh I don't plan on mixing the subs. The sb2000 was bought for the old house living room, and had wife approval. Once the rythmik shows up, the svs will become part of a 2.1 setup in our new living room, and the rythmik will be in the basement home theater.

I understand the advantage of 2 like subs, and may get there one day. Once the rythmik gets here, I will play with location, and try to get things as best i can. For now, I'm just using the svs as a place holder.

I was hoping a new receiver with xt32 would help me get things as good as I can.

By the way, does xt32 provide any kind of room graphs?
I have 2 subs, an X4000, and REW. Rooms and expectations vary widely, but it's hard to imagine you wouldn't be happy with that AVR. Using REW to help with placement and tweaking is also highly recommended.
 

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^ Same. X4000, two subs, one SVS but both used in sealed mode, REW. XT32 made a big diff compared to the XT I had before. Actually, I bought the X4000 (when new) strictly for the XT32. I use the AVR as a pre-pro. It's a solid little unit, though build quality is not up to Denon of a similar performance "level" of several years ago. You won't notice unless you look hard, or touch the AVR; I have to assume for most people at least 95% of usage is via the remote; in fact unlike some older models there are many many things that can only be done via the remote/GUI. I should say though that if you live in the U.S. you might get the newer X4100 for not much more. If you have more demanding speakers, or if the price is close, I really can't suggest not getting the 4520 instead though. They were never offered here anywhere close to U.S. prices, more than double the X4000 typically.

If you're actually going to do something about what you measure with REW, then get it, otherwise don't as it'll burst your happiness balloon.

Your subs don't need to be all the same. With REW you can position the subs to take maximum benefit of their capability. For instance, I use the big SVS sub as the "driver", I guess you'd say to "pressurize" the space, and the smaller sub as a "smoother", to even out the frequency response in the listening area. You'll go nuts trying to do that by ear or with an SPL meter, REW is the ticket.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
So what do people think x4000 at 799, and x4100 at 999. Is the 4100 worth 200 more? How has its reliability been?

I guess the 4520 is 999 too, is that worth it it? I don't think the extra features will ever get used. I really only have a 5.1 system, that i want to sound good. No extra zones, atmos, etc.
 

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Another option - and more affordable - would be to purchase a miniDSP (and an appropriate mic, either UMIK-1 or UMM6), use REW and tame the frequency response.

Or, look for an used AS-EQ1 to calibrate the sub(s) only.
 

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So what do people think x4000 at 799, and x4100 at 999. Is the 4100 worth 200 more? How has its reliability been?

I guess the 4520 is 999 too, is that worth it it? I don't think the extra features will ever get used. I really only have a 5.1 system, that i want to sound good. No extra zones, atmos, etc.
Of course I'm biased because I own one, but I would go for the 4520, much better build quality.
 

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My Onkyo with XT plays a rumble tone to set your sub with....sounds like an avr manufacturer choice, not Audyssey.
A false assumption on my part - having owned Audyssey XT, I thought it was Audyssey. Thanks



Also, to the OP - Your listening position could result in you hearing boomy bass. Try not getting to close to walls, some say a minimum of 3ft.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
A false assumption on my part - having owned Audyssey XT, I thought it was Audyssey. Thanks



Also, to the OP - Your listening position could result in you hearing boomy bass. Try not getting to close to walls, some say a minimum of 3ft.
I agree with your point about the wall. I find myself sitting in a corner, straight across from the sub in the front corner. About 15' away, and I think it's a bass heavy spot. If I move to other spots it doesn't seem as bad.

I feel I'm ready to make the jump to one of these receivers. I sold some old stuff to free up the budget, now I just need to figure out which receiver. I'm all over the place. Part of me wants to get the x4100 just to have the latest and I can utilize my ceiling speakers for atmos and add some new surrounds on the rear walls.

Another part of me says wait on all that to play out for a few years and just get the x4000 and save $200.

And another part says, spend the $999 on a new 4520 because it's a good deal. That receiver does appear to be a monster size wise, and while it would fit in my current tv stand, it may be difficult down the road to manage
 

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Discussion Starter #20
After further research, I'm down to 4520 or x4100 at $999 for either new. What to do? I don't mind giving Atmos a try, I could use my ceiling speakers and add some new surrounds. But, I also realize how nice the 4520 is, and I'm sure that would be great to.
 
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