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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been reading quite a lot of posts in the DIY forum and have decided that I'd like to paint a screen on the wall in my HT. All the other posts seem to imply it's best to open a new thread for each individual application, so here goes.


I need to do some fill-in before I paint, but figured I could get the Q&A out of the way first. To start, the room is 11x19, with the projected image on the 11 foot wall. The size is about 108" to 110" diagonal. Seats are in two rows, with the first row about 12 feet from the wall, maybe a little more. The projector is an Optoma HD65 with the zoom all the way out in order to max lumens. The walls of the room are a light off-white with just a hint of yellow (only visible if compared to true white), and the ceiling is standard ceiling white. I'd like to avoid repainting the room to darker colors, but may consider that down the road, just not now. Also, I'll be rolling the paint and will go with the 2-roller method, as I've had some experience with rolling and have all the supplies I need. (I really don't want to reopen the can of worms around rolling vs. spraying in this thread.) Anyway, the room is light-controlled, and usually has very little ambient light, though I may sometimes turn on a small lamp if I'm eating dinner while watching a movie.


I'm thinking of going with the Behr 1750 or 4850 mixed with Minwax Polycrylic at 3:1 or 4:1 respectively, based on posts I've read. If I do this, I'm not sure if the Behr Silverscreen mix, or another N9, N8.5, or N8 paint mix is best. Thoughts? Is there any need to paint a pure white on the wall first? I don't think so, but wanted to see what others think.


I also read a couple other posts that talked about a mix of the Behr 4850 with Polycrylic, with some Ceramcoat silver and pearl paint added. How does this compare without the hobby paints, and does this mix involve tinting the paint a gray, or using untinted white?


Are there any other simple and relatively cheap alternatives to suggest for rolling, given these constraints?


Thanks for all the great info I've read so far!


Chris
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by farok /forum/post/18148002



I need to do some fill-in before I paint, but figured I could get the Q&A out of the way first. To start, the room is 11x19, with the projected image on the 11 foot wall. The size is about 108" to 110" diagonal. Seats are in two rows, with the first row about 12 feet from the wall, maybe a little more. The projector is an Optoma HD65 with the zoom all the way out in order to max lumens. The walls of the room are a light off-white with just a hint of yellow (only visible if compared to true white), and the ceiling is standard ceiling white. I'd like to avoid repainting the room to darker colors, but may consider that down the road, just not now. Also, I'll be rolling the paint and will go with the 2-roller method, as I've had some experience with rolling and have all the supplies I need. (I really don't want to reopen the can of worms around rolling vs. spraying in this thread.) Anyway, the room is light-controlled, and usually has very little ambient light, though I may sometimes turn on a small lamp if I'm eating dinner while watching a movie.


I'm thinking of going with the Behr 1750 or 4850 mixed with Minwax Polycrylic at 3:1 or 4:1 respectively, based on posts I've read. If I do this, I'm not sure if the Behr Silverscreen mix, or another N9, N8.5, or N8 paint mix is best. Thoughts? Is there any need to paint a pure white on the wall first? I don't think so, but wanted to see what others think.

Hi farok,


1st off, what'cha got against Worms anyway? People go a'fishin' around here all the time! Worms are Ok...it's those stinkin' nasty balls of Carp Dough that get tossed in that foul up the water with their oily, oozy excretions.



Me? I use Artificial Lures.



Really though, even some of the staunchest proponents for rolling acknowledge that when applying any mix containing metallics, a superior "Flat" finish is essential. "Superior" meaning that the surface does not have as much sheen as a rolled surface so metallics are under a bit more control, reflectivity wise. Spraying can 'dust on" a minutely textured surface. Rolling lays it all out flat, so a higher degree of sheen is to be expected.


Either way the intended purpose is to create the best possible surface one can according to their needs and abilities, with perhaps a smidgen of "desires" tossed in.


If you go buy a Gallon (Benjamin Moore is selling for $8.00 per on sale at Lowes!) of inexpensive paint and have it tinted NG8.0 (...you need as dark a Gray as your room requires to ward off all that returned reflection from the Screen ) and add Poly 4:1, with your acquired skills and a smooth surface to work with, rolling such an application will be a snap.


That shade will really help your Contrast since the HD65 is a 4K:1 machine. But it's not so dark that the 65's 1600 lumens can't provide enough light to keep whites as bright as possible. When one considers how much of a disadvantage creating a 110" diagonal reflective light source inside a white Box will be, and that you must at present defer the consideration of re-painting the walls/ceiling, when using a Basic Gray, you really have to sacrifice some degree of brilliance on the higher end of the scale to avoid losing a even higher proportionate amount of depth and quality on the lower end due to wash out from returning reflections. A 4:1 Paint will help retain a bit of the brilliance though...that's why it's used.....more so than for 'leveling' purposes.


To really combat those "stinky" issues, you have to go Gray...and "Metallic" Reflective. That can be done using a roller, but technique is different. But you just might already know of it perhaps?

Quote:
I also read a couple other posts that talked about a mix of the Behr 4850 with Polycrylic, with some Ceramcoat silver and pearl paint added. How does this compare without the hobby paints, and does this mix involve tinting the paint a gray, or using untinted white?

That is essentially RS-MaxxMudd. The white is untinted with the Silver /Pearl adding the tint. ( a wee bit of Champagne Metallic too.) If your question is how does a simple NG8.0 w/Poly compare to a Mix that includes Silver & Pearl, the answer is that it doesn't. It's not as reflective, nor does it have as much proportionate ability to combat ambient light on a per lumen basis. Only the inclusion of the Poly makes it even come close. But the real "Can-o-Worms" is as to if such is needed, or if the newer, brighter, more contrasty PJ really need anything 'extra' screen wise, or as to if a simple Gray w/Poly will suffice for the "majority".


Well it's hard to dispute that newer PJs can make almost anything look good, but the differences that arise when one actually needs everything to be considered to get the best performance that there lies the real differences.


In your case...a worst case....you need to utilize the brightness of your PJ to your advantage...not disadvantage. Simply turning down the Bulb won't drastically reduce wall/ceiling reflections. but using a darker Screen that also has gain will return more light at the viewer, (...that means less intense light is thrown sideways....) and so being the screen will be more able to effectively reject the much weaker returning light.


Such an approach always had it's own caveats though, such as a "too bright" image for some. but the newer, darker, yet reflective DIY applications have essentially balanced that equation.


Now all you have to do is Gaff yourself a hold of a decision as to which one you want/the direction you want to head.


RS-MaxxMudd? Yep. It's roll-able using the adjusted technique. Primarily that involves using a 1/2" nap roller for the last coat...and using it right. It's probably the best choice for you at present because it will still be "best" roll-able solution later on after you paint out the room.

Quote:
Are there any other simple and relatively cheap alternatives to suggest for rolling, given these constraints?

Something "other" than rolling? or something else you can roll? As for alternative paints, search for Black Widow and/or Scorpion.

Quote:
Thanks for all the great info I've read so far!


Chris

Hey! Sawright! Sorry you had to wait a spell, but I'm supposin' everyone must'a been gone off Fishin' ya thin? Anyway, hopefully you'll get another response or two. If not....I'm not so bad to have in the Boat. I always bring lottsa Beer.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan /forum/post/18151986



RS-MaxxMudd? Yep. It's roll-able using the adjusted technique. Primarily that involves using a 1/2" nap roller for the last coat...

two things...

a) that should be 1/4" nap or less. i personally used wooster brand 1/8" nap rollers.

b) i do not recommend the 2 roller method. this is a metallic paint... using a roller is already detrimental in that a roller 1st pushes that the metallics around in a crude manner and then picks them up into the roller fibers. using a second roller further degrades it's overall performance and will likely introduce roller marks. if you're gonna use poly in the mix then let the poly work to your advantage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the quick replies - great info so far! I did some looking at the Black Widow mix, and it seems like it would be superior to the mix with the ceramcoat hobby paints since I will be rolling. What is the difference between the Black Widow mix and the neutral gray/polycrylic mix? Is one better than another for the "white box" I'm working with? Sounds like the differences comparing the polycrylic mix to BW would be similar when comparing the polycrylic mix to RS-MaxxMud, as they both employ metalic paints.


Would one be better than another if I were to darken the walls and ceiling? With the "worst possible scenario" comment about the white room I have, I may consider darkening the room sooner rather than later. I agree the room is somewhat distracting to watching movies, and can see how it would wash out the picture. Assuming I plan to darken sooner rather than later, would you still recommend NG8.0 if I do NOT go with the Black Widow mix? Anyway, it sounds like Black Widow is a great option, and is what I'm leaning towards at this point.


Lots of time to think about it though while the spackle dries into the old picture frame nail holes in the wall. I'd like to give it at least a week to try and shrink so I can get the surface as smooth as possible before paint.


Also great tip on not using two rollers with the polycrylic mix. It makes sense why now.


Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I may be posting too quickly... I did some more reading and found that Black Widow is like an NG7.0, which should perform better in an environment with some ambient light. If calibrated correctly, would the projector perform well with this when there's no ambient light?


I also found the Cream and Sugar mix, which seems to be Black Widow, but with an NG9.0 value, roughly. I guess the only real difference is that this would be bad in ambient light situations.


I guess my other questions still hold... What is the real difference between BW / C&S mixes when compared to the neutral gray/poly mix? Is any of these be worth more of consideration if I black out the walls and ceiling?


Again thanks for the help.


Chris
 

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There are some differences you have not / cannot take into account due to a lack of familiarity with just how things work with the varied Mixes.


But just hang on....it's coming. Gotta go....Real work is waiting.


Spackle? Ouch. As soon as the current coat is dry, sand that down and put on a coat of actual Drywall compound. Spackle is NOT the same, and it will not cover with primer or paint in the same manner, nor present the same texture.


I use it to fill/back up a hole, but I always leave room for a "Cap" of drywall mud that can be feather sanded out in a manner that Spackle often cannot.


See....even when I don't have time to respond....here I am responding.



Go figure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks - I'll be waiting on any other info you can provide. No rush, as I'm grateful for the info I'm getting! I'm constantly amazed that there are so many knowledgeable folks who share their info so readily and quickly!


Anyway, I use the name Spackle generically; I have drywall compound. I'm not a pro and never remember to make the distinction.


Also, I did some reading on a simple way to black out the room (without paint), and I may invest $40-60 or so in some black felt and staple it to the ceiling and walls for the first tenfeet or so around the screen to take care of some of the light pollution on the screen. I like the idea of felt because it's light-weight, easy to work with, and not permanent should I ever need to turn the room back into a bedroom (just a little touch-up, or new molding, required where the staples were - the ceiling already needs some touch-up anyway).


That said, the more I read, the more I seem to be gravitating towards the Black Widow mix, as it leaves some more flexibility with ambient light should that be desired, though I'm still open for ideas and suggestions.


Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As I get time, I read more and more posts, and the more I read about the neutral gray paint with satin polycrylic added, that is more and more appealing. What seems to push it over the edge is that while it may not be as reflective as Black Widow or other metalic mixes, (1) it's probably good enough, especially if I darken the room; and (2) there are lots of comments from people who say these mixes make the screen basically like a "see through" window -- no texture popping into the projected image. This and the fact that I'd only be spending about $20 to try it, makes it very appealing. If it doesn't look good, I can try other things, and I'm all the more wiser after spending my $20.


So long story short, I think I'm going to pick up a quart of the Behr 4850 tinted NG 8.0 and a quart of the Minwax Satin Polycrylic and mix 4:1. Seems to be an accepted solution that produces good results!


Sorry for all the posts... I often find that just hashing out details helps me better understand what I'm getting into. If others have comments all the better, but so far I think things are going in a good direction.


Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well, hadn't heard back from any posts in awhile, so I painted up the screen with the N8.0 shade of 4850 mixed with Satin Polycrylic - figured for $25 (including the 3/16" roller) what do I have to lose? I must say it looks awesome! Much better than the off-white wall used to be, even though it's darker. The colors really reflect back well, colors are much truer, and blacks are so much better than what they used to be! Next is to darken the room further, as the light bouncing off the walls and ceiling make a noticeable impact on the picture, though this is a great start! I also have some velvet on order for a screen border. I know I asked a lot of questions, but thanks for the comments and suggestions I received on them, both public and private!


Chris
 
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