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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
$1000 per floor. Maybe center in the $600 - $900 range. I know the Klipsch R7 and RC-64 would be in that tier and I really do like Klipsch but I just don't have room for that large center in my entertainment system. It's pretty large though 9" x 31".


I'm not asking this because I am ready now. But at some point in the future I might want to step it up. Since I have a really great receiver and subs I am really happy with why not start doing my research on that next tier now?


Since I love my SVS sub I looked at their ultra speaker line and considered it briefly and I will keep them in mind for future models.



Considering my room is fairly small I don't need speakers that reach far, just ones that have a very full and large presence. Room is only 13' x 11.5' and open on the left side (which I feel adds to the acoustics a bit). I can only place the towers about 6.5 feet apart. I have also considered adding a front height as this might improve the front soundstage as well since I am only running 5.2 right now. I really don't think the room is long enough to add surround mids. Maybe a surround back height. Is going to that next tier better, or maybe adding a front height and surround height to my mix a better idea?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR  /t/1520550/looking-for-respected-brands-in-the-low-end-of-the-high-end-tier-1000-per#post_24428494

@Teremei , I thought you were getting the EMPTek Impression towers and centre to try. [Thread]


Didn't that pan out for you?

Yeah I'm going to thoroughly test them against the klipsch for a few weeks. I am not buying any more expensive speakers now I just want to get an idea of what that next tier might look like. I have already noticed a great improvement in sound just by being able to fit my center higher and tilt it upward and also with the denon 4000. So it's got me thinking, what's that next upgrade sound like?
 

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Klipsch is for newbies who haven't yet discovered that their horn tweeters are not very good-sounding and haven't had the chance to listen much better-sounding speakers from PSB, KEF, Wharfedale, B & K and others.


You need to get out more and do some listening. God gave you ears; start using them.


Also; a center speaker is only for frequencies above 100 Hz. Smaller is generally better for clear, well-articulated mid-range (which is the job of a center speaker).


Large center speakers are usually a mistake, if you like clear voice quality. One with a pair of 4" drivers and a tweeter is perfect.


Actually, with main speakers that close together, it is very questionable whether a center speaker is desirable.
 

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Another series of sweeping generalizations by Commysman. OP, this poster is expressing his opinion. Many posters really like the brighter sound of klipsch. And don't even get me started about the freq requirements of a center!
 

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Well, of course it's my opinion. What the ***** else would it be?


And if you read a few hundred reviews by people with extensive experience evaluating the sound of many many speakers, you will find that they agree with me by and large. I am not alone.


Most magazine reviewers won't even DO a review on Klipsch speakers, because they don't like slamming a product that everyone knows to be inferior. They prefer to concentrate on something they can say some good things about.


That's why a search will yield almost NO reviews on Klipsch speakers in mainstream publications, but lots of reviews on the others.

But the few that do reviews on them have a hard time saying anything good.


The ONE review I could find in a mainstream audio publication (Home Theater review) on a Klipsch speaker (the RF-62 ii) said "too much flab", "lacking speed and detail", and "lacked transparency". The only thing he said about the tweeters was that they were very controversial and fuel many arguments....and then he ducked the subject completely...lol. And I'm sure he was doing his best to be nice.


On the other hand, PSB, Wharfedale, and KEF consistently get VERY good reviews of most of their products.


After a while you will begin to get the picture, unless you are a little slow.


But hey; there are people who go out and buy Range Rovers for $75,000, even though every automotive magazine rates their quality and reliability as atrocious and their gas mileage as absurdly poor.


Everyone is free to be as stupid with their money as they want to be, and ignoring the facts is not a crime.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk  /t/1520550/looking-for-respected-brands-in-the-low-end-of-the-high-end-tier-1000-per#post_24428771


Another series of sweeping generalizations by Commysman. OP, this poster is expressing his opinion. Many posters really like the brighter sound of klipsch. And don't even get me started about the freq requirements of a center!
 

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Your original reply did not say "in my opinion"...in fact, you rather insultingly said klipsch was for newbies who hadnt heard psb or kef!

As to the center, I like a center channel that is clear and detailed AND can hit as low as my fronts. Plenty of content moves across the front stage in a directional manner, through the center. You don't want a center that changes that sound, IMHO!
 

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The reason I said that is because I have NEVER seen a case where ANYONE prefers Klipsch speakers to KEF or PSB or Wharfedale speakers in a head-to-head direct comparison.


That is why I said that only a "newbie" (someone who probably has never had that opportunity to compare), would be considering only Klipsch speakers for an upgrade.


I think 98 out of 100 people knowledgeable in the audio field will agree that there are many many better speakers for the same money compared to Klipsch.

I was trying to get the OP to open up to other possibilities that would sound better to him if he took the time to explore them.


Do you think he should listen to NOTHING but Klipsch speakers before he decides to spend his money? That seems to be your position.


As far as I am concerned EVERYTHING in this forum is someone's opinion unless it is explicitly claimed to be a FACT and documentation is given to back it up.


If you have been operating under some other assumption, I suggest that you might wish to reconsider.


In the future, you may consider everything I say to be my opinion, unless it is a direct quote from elsewhere.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk  /t/1520550/looking-for-respected-brands-in-the-low-end-of-the-high-end-tier-1000-per#post_24428932


Your original reply did not say "in my opinion"...in fact, you rather insultingly said klipsch was for newbies who hadnt heard psb or kef!

As to the center, I like a center channel that is clear and detailed AND can hit as low as my fronts. Plenty of content moves across the front stage in a directional manner, through the center. You don't want a center that changes that sound, IMHO!
 

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You do not need to be so negative in regards to an opinion about a line of speakers, I know plenty of high end reviews that really like them. Instead of saying they are only for "newbies" which is ridiculous just state why you prefer certain speakers. Everyone has different tastes I like klipsch better than many 5k speakers and I like many cheaper speakers better than klipsch. Don't be condescending towards what people like and get a long with people who are just asking questions your life and everyone else's will be better. There is a reason there are 1000's of different types of speakers everyone is different.
 

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I have read hundreds of "high-end reviews" over the years and have never seen any that praise any Klipsch speakers except some of their very expensive "legacy" models such as the Heresy, La Scala, and Klipschorn from the 1950s, which are WAY out of the price range being discussed here.


Since you "know" of "plenty" of high-end reviews of affordable Klipsch speakers, please cite the source and place and date of publication with us, so we can share.


I doubt that any favorable reviews of that type exist.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zahamm2  /t/1520550/looking-for-respected-brands-in-the-low-end-of-the-high-end-tier-1000-per#post_24429012


You do not need to be so negative in regards to an opinion about a line of speakers, I know plenty of high end reviews that really like them. Instead of saying they are only for "newbies" which is ridiculous just state why you prefer certain speakers. Everyone has different tastes I like klipsch better than many 5k speakers and I like many cheaper speakers better than klipsch. Don't be condescending towards what people like and get a long with people who are just asking questions your life and everyone else's will be better. There is a reason there are 1000's of different types of speakers everyone is different.
 

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The point of what i said went way over your head but judging by your profile your age and information gave me an idea its too late to accept anything different than what your opinion is. That last statement I made is ridiculous and likely wrong but stated it to show how ridiculous blanket statements sound about a persons age or a type of speaker "klipsch". Sound is subjective and everyone likes different sounds. A simple google search will give you plenty of reviews from respected magazines as well as known speaker reviewers who have given the klipsch reference line a listen.


Back to the OPs question the brands listed so far are good speakers to start looking at. I have tested Energy Klipsch and ARX so far and liked all 3 for different reasons of course they all had minor things I didn't like as well. Difficult to find the perfect speaker maybe even impossible but thats what makes this enjoyable as long as you don't run into people saying what you like is wrong.
 

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I have been searching for the perfect speaker for 50 years.


My first serious speaker was actually a Klipschorn, which I built from a Klipsch kit in the late 1950s. It took 5 bottles of glue to build it...lol.



It was huge and painted flat black and ugly as hell, but it sounded pretty damn good!


I DJ'd with it at a high school canteen dance using a homemade 40 watt tube amplifier, and the 500 or so people there experienced some serious sound levels. Amazing!


The best thing I have found so far, and it DOES come very close to perfect sound quality, is the Vandersteen Treo speakers.


You might want to look at the recent Stereophile article on those speakers for some additional impressions and test results.


The article was written by John Atkinson. I will guarantee that he knows 10 times as much about speakers as either one of us, so I consider his opinions to be valuable.


But whatever you do, don't listen to them unless you are prepared to fall in love.


I don't tell ANYONE what to think. I just suggest that thinking, and a little research, and as much listening as possible, is a good thing.


On the other hand, when someone makes statements that seem to indicate a lack of knowledge about what may be available at a certain price level, I think it is useful to try to point that out. If they find that insulting, that is not my intention.


I see nothing wrong with suggesting that a person take steps to get the most satisfying thing, to them, for their dollar. The more you know, the better you can decide.



P.S.- I used to have a pair of PSB Image T6 speakers. Stereophile and The Absolute sound both picked them as best in their price class and featured them in several "recommended system" articles.They are hard to beat IMO in the $1000-1600 or so price class; worth a listen, perhaps?


Quote:
Originally Posted by zahamm2  /t/1520550/looking-for-respected-brands-in-the-low-end-of-the-high-end-tier-1000-per#post_24429068


The point of what i said went way over your head but judging by your profile your age and information gave me an idea its too late to accept anything different than what your opinion is. Sound is subjective and everyone likes different sounds. A simple google search will give you plenty of reviews from respected magazines as well as known speaker reviewers who have given the klipsch reference line a listen.


Back to the OPs question the brands listed so far are good speakers to start looking at. I have tested Energy Klipsch and ARX so far and liked all 3 for different reasons of course they all had minor things I didn't like as well. Difficult to find the perfect speaker maybe even impossible but thats what makes this enjoyable as long as you don't run into people saying what you like is wrong.
 

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NHT Classic 4's and 3c are right at your budget. Very well reviewed and NHT speakers are generally very good values.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman  /t/1520550/looking-for-respected-brands-in-the-low-end-of-the-high-end-tier-1000-per#post_24429112


I have been searching for the perfect speaker for 50 years.


My first serious speaker was actually a Klipschorn, which I built from a Klipsch kit in the late 1950s.



It was huge and painted flat black and ugly as hell, but it sounded pretty damn good!


The best thing I have found so far, and it DOES come very close to perfect sound quality, is the Vandersteen Treo speakers.


You might want to look at the recent Stereophile article on those speakers for some additional impressions and test results.


The article was written by John Atkinson. I will will guarantee that he knows 10 times as much about speakers as either one of us, so I consider his opinions to be valuable.


But whatever you do, don't listen to them unless you are prepared to fall in love.


I don't tell ANYONE what to think. I just suggest that thinking, and a little research, and as much listening as possible, is a good thing.


On the other hand, when someone makes statements that seem to indicate a lack of knowledge about what may be available at a certain price level, I think it is useful to try to point that out.


I see nothing wrong with suggesting that a person take steps to get the most satisfying thing, to them, for their dollar.
Thanks for sharing your OPINIONS about speakers. You're entitled to them and I am not going to discuss opinions except to say that I haven't read an issue of Stereophile in 20 years, ever since they started accepting advertising.


However, I do take significant issue with your claim that a CC should be a small, frequency bandwidth limited speaker.
Quote:
"Also; a center speaker is only for frequencies above 100 Hz. Smaller is generally better for clear, well-articulated mid-range (which is the job of a center speaker).

That is just wrong. Your belief that a small CC is "best" is a hold-over from the Dolby Pro Logic days where the center channel information was matrixed from the L/R's and was bandwidth limited. In those days, a small bandwidth limited speaker was all that was required. However, guess what... we've moved beyond that to the Hi-Rez codecs, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA. These codecs make full use of the CC as an "equal" channel to the L & R's, and it is specified as a "full range" channel. And the next generation of codecs, Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D will also benefit from a robust CC as well as robust surrounds, as many as 64 of them.


The ideal CC for a contemporary surround sound system is identical to the L & R speakers. It is vertically oriented and placed at the same height as the L/R's. Generally, this requires the use of an acoustically transparent screen with a projector. This arrangement provides the best opportunity for a "timbre-match" between the front 3 speakers. This is important so sounds that "pan" across the front sound stage remain consistent through the pan. The CC is not just for midrange and dialogue. It participates in the entire front soundstage. As such, making it identical to the L/R's is ideal.


Horizontal CC's are a compromised design that are sold for practical purposes for people who can't place a CC properly. They generally exhibit lobing, comb filtering and poor off-axis response. Nonetheless, it is a bad idea to limit the CC to 100 Hz. If you're going to use Bass Managment to re-direct the low bass to the sub, you want to limit the crossovers to 80 Hz to eliminate subwoofer localization. To crossover at 80 Hz, it is a good idea to use a speaker that can get BELOW 80 Hz. 60 Hz or even 40 Hz is much better than 100 Hz.


Bottom line, your insistence that the CC should be a small, bandwidth limited speaker is archaic and completely outdated.


Craig
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman  /t/1520550/looking-for-respected-brands-in-the-low-end-of-the-high-end-tier-1000-per#post_24428744


Klipsch is for newbies who haven't yet discovered that their horn tweeters are not very good-sounding and haven't had the chance to listen much better-sounding speakers from PSB, KEF, Wharfedale, B & K and others.


You need to get out more and do some listening. God gave you ears; start using them.


Also; a center speaker is only for frequencies above 100 Hz. Smaller is generally better for clear, well-articulated mid-range (which is the job of a center speaker).


Large center speakers are usually a mistake, if you like clear voice quality. One with a pair of 4" drivers and a tweeter is perfect.


Actually, with main speakers that close together, it is very questionable whether a center speaker is desirable.
Troll
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd  /t/1520550/looking-for-respected-brands-in-the-low-end-of-the-high-end-tier-1000-per#post_24429439


I'd include Ascend Acoustic's offerings and personally would consider the Sierra-1 or Sierra-2 rather than the Sierra towers in a small room since you already have subs.

+1


The KEF LS-50 or R300 might also be worth considering.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman  /t/1520550/looking-for-respected-brands-in-the-low-end-of-the-high-end-tier-1000-per#post_24428744


Klipsch is for newbies who haven't yet discovered that their horn tweeters are not very good-sounding and haven't had the chance to listen much better-sounding speakers from PSB, KEF, Wharfedale, B & K and others.

Nonsense! There are plenty of people on this forum who have Klipsch Ref speakers and prefer them to other brands they have demoed. I'm not one of those who prefer the Klipsch Ref series, but I respect the opinions of those who do. It's a perfectly reasonable choice.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman  /t/1520550/looking-for-respected-brands-in-the-low-end-of-the-high-end-tier-1000-per#post_24428744


Klipsch is for newbies who haven't yet discovered that their horn tweeters are not very good-sounding and haven't had the chance to listen much better-sounding speakers from PSB, KEF, Wharfedale, B & K and others.


You need to get out more and do some listening. God gave you ears; start using them.


Also; a center speaker is only for frequencies above 100 Hz. Smaller is generally better for clear, well-articulated mid-range (which is the job of a center speaker).


Large center speakers are usually a mistake, if you like clear voice quality. One with a pair of 4" drivers and a tweeter is perfect.


Actually, with main speakers that close together, it is very questionable whether a center speaker is desirable.

Let me translate this goobly **** for those that have yet learned to decipher this crap.


Blah, blah, blah, blah blah blah. Blah, blah blah, blaaaaahhhhh, blaaaaaaah, blah, blah blah.


Oh, and I read automotive magazines and motorcycle magazines so that makes me a professional racer or at least as good as one.


What a tool.
 
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