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First time anyone has mentioned or recommended this. How would you compare this to the SVS-PB1000 or PB2000 or SB2000, or the Monolith? Or my leading contender at this point, two RL12 or RSL12 I forget what they're called exactly. The ones recd earlier in this thread.
Almost identical performance to the HSU VTF2
Cons: down roughly 1-2db in overall outputs,
Pros: better build quality/finish/bracing.

So better than a pb1000 in every area.
Better upper bass 30hz and up than the pb2000 but not as strong below 30hz.
Still usable output down to 16-17hz.
 
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Discussion Starter #102 (Edited)
Almost identical performance to the HSU VTF2
Cons: down roughly 1-2db in overall outputs,
Pros: better build quality/finish/bracing.

So better than a pb1000 in every area.
Better upper bass 30hz and up than the pb2000 but not as strong below 30hz.
Still usable output down to 16-17hz.
I've spent $2600 so far so people calling me a tire kicker are being unfair, but what is roadblocking me from even knowing which sub models to start comparing and narrowing down at this point is all the posts, before I mentioned my big space and tile floor, saying that bass works like water, and you need to pressurize the room, and that that is the biggest reason why a $300 sub wont do it, and I need to go to $500-$600. But then after I mentioned my tile floor, most aren't even answering what I need to do, the only two people to have addressed it said $500 will no longer cut it to pressurize the room, but didn't say what would, and another saying it's not possible to do.

So if it's not possible to do, then maybe I'm better off going back down to $300, since one of the main differences between $300 and $500 no longer applies? Plus no one answered me how loud it would be, and I may not want it super loud, I mean I definitely dont want it shaking everything or hurting my ears or bothering neighbors, but maybe those arent worries, no one has explained what the noise is like. But if $500 ones are super loud, maybe I dont need that.

On the flipside, it's not too loud, maybe there is still a way to pressurize the full space, if I go up to $750, or look for something used? I think I can get two starke sealed 12s or 15s for $600 or something. Product Details. There are the 10s for $500 but he said 15s for $599 I think, have to go back and check. No one has told me if that would do it or not.

I'm not a tire kicker, but it's impossible to make an informed decision with so much missing information, and changing information. A lot of helpful posts were given, but no one thought to ask what kind of floor I had, and I'm too newb to know it was relevant, until after most of those were made, making most of those posts potentially obsolete in many ways, depending on what's possible with that type of floor. Then everyone got mad like "we already helped you." Yes helped me find subs to use with either a normal or small room size, or a normal floor, or both. It turns out I need help finding subs to use in a big space with a tile floor, and by the time I or anyone else knew that, some posters abandoned helping me, told others to do the same, called me a tire kicker, etc. So that's where I'm at and why. I hope the explanation makes people see the situation differently, how it was from my shoes, and please reconsider helping me get over the finish line. I already spent $2600, and I will absolutely buy a sub. I'm not a tire kicker. Just am stuck because of the floor issue.
 

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Dude, you just need to stop overthinking this and pull the trigger on something, so I suggest that you contact SVS since they have probably the most friendly return policy and let them know what it is that you're looking for, BUY IT, TRY IT, and if it doesn't fulfill all of your needs then RETURN IT for something that might tickle your fancy.

At this point you're just sending yourself into analysis paralysis and achieving absolutely nothing, so take a deep breath and just go for it! (y)
 

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Discussion Starter #104
Dude, you just need to stop overthinking this and pull the trigger on something, so I suggest that you contact SVS since they have probably the most friendly return policy and let them know what it is that you're looking for, BUY IT, TRY IT, and if it doesn't fulfill all of your needs then RETURN IT for something that might tickle your fancy.

At this point you're just sending yourself into analysis paralysis and achieving absolutely nothing, so take a deep breath and just go for it! (y)
It's just very complicated with my space. I may need two subs to pressurize the space, if its possible. IF its possible, it would need two. I can get two 10 inch starks, with 450 watts each, for $500, for example. If I can swing a deal for two 12s at that price by contacting them, then it's a question of, how is the quality of the starke sub compared to SVS? If the quality is comparable, 2 for 1 cant be beat. And I still havent determined that. Or determined if its even possible at all to pressurize my space without blowing out the windows on the way to doing it. If it isn't possible, that simplifies matter and I can just focus on one and make a decision like you say.

Even then, I see a lot of people swearing by the.... and I forgot to write down the name. Dammit. Some company that started with a V, or, it was Rythmik something... L3 or something... L something... lots of letters and numbers and then L or something... as slightly the king of the $500 ones. So if I could really find consensus on that, I could just get it and be assured I got the best value I could find, and not have to worry about any return policy at all.

Or I could go cheaper since pressurizing isnt possible anyway, and that was the main reason to get more power. That's something I will just have to decide on my own, but the other variables are more objective questions that Im simply lacking info on.
 

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@ 500-$600 the 3 best subs are:
-vtf-2 MK5
-x12 (when on sale)
-lv12F

Between $600-$1000 there's really only one correct answer: VTF-3 MK5. Above $1000 you get option paralysis, tons of good options.

Its really that simple.
 

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It's just very complicated with my space. I may need two subs to pressurize the space, if its possible. IF its possible, it would need two. I can get two 10 inch starks, with 450 watts each, for $500, for example. If I can swing a deal for two 12s at that price by contacting them, then it's a question of, how is the quality of the starke sub compared to SVS? If the quality is comparable, 2 for 1 cant be beat. And I still havent determined that. Or determined if its even possible at all to pressurize my space without blowing out the windows on the way to doing it. If it isn't possible, that simplifies matter and I can just focus on one and make a decision like you say.

Even then, I see a lot of people swearing by the.... and I forgot to write down the name. Dammit. Some company that started with a V, or, it was Rythmik something... L3 or something... L something... lots of letters and numbers and then L or something... as slightly the king of the $500 ones. So if I could really find consensus on that, I could just get it and be assured I got the best value I could find, and not have to worry about any return policy at all.

Or I could go cheaper since pressurizing isnt possible anyway, and that was the main reason to get more power. That's something I will just have to decide on my own, but the other variables are more objective questions that Im simply lacking info on.
Well, you dont really know how difficult a room is gonna be until you try it out, so that’s why I suggested to just pull the trigger on something so that you know for sure. Plus, if you contact SVS they’ll be abke to help steer you in right direction, so my statement still stands that you should stop overthinking and make a move. That’s the only way to know for sure what’s going to satisfy your needs.
 
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The Elac is not at the level of the Hsu VTF-2 mentioned above. Get two of the of the Hsu and you will be set. If you really want to get two subs right now and stay under $1000. I'd get two of the Monolith 10.

Starke's an unknown commodity and how they have their specs listed on the website is very suspect, peak at what frequency? what's the plus-minus on the quoted range? etc. It seems like all the old white van speaker tricks. I'd stay away for now.

If you want to get just one for under a thousand and get a 2nd later there are a few more options, but it sounds like you don't want to go there. If you want the best service and want to get to two as soon as possible (with free returns), go ahead and go with the SVS PB-1000. It won't be at the level of the Hsu. You have to give up things to get other things so it's where you want to compromise.

If you want to punch above the weight class of your budget, you either need to go used or peruse b-stock deals. For instance, PSA listed a V1500 for $650 the other day. You just need to e-mail PSA support from time to time or monitor their vendor forum on this site to see what they have. They don't really advertise and their b-stock inventory turns over fast.
 

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Discussion Starter #110
@ 500-$600 the 3 best subs are:
-vtf-2 MK5
-x12 (when on sale)
-lv12F

Between $600-$1000 there's really only one correct answer: VTF-3 MK5. Above $1000 you get option paralysis, tons of good options.

Its really that simple.
whats full name on the x12 plz?

I cant find the lv12f on slickdeals to see its price history. What was it on black friday or on sale? I think thats the one people seemed to like best on other threads. I think.
 

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whats full name on the x12 plz?

I cant find the lv12f on slickdeals to see its price history. What was it on black friday or on sale? I think thats the one people seemed to like best on other threads. I think.
You won't find it on slickdeals. It never goes on sale and for good reason

By the way, you can pressurize a space with one sub, even a large space, however, the single sub would have to be larger to match the output of two smaller ones. Two subs properly separated and positioned give you a more even response, which can be especially helpful with a tile floor given the high amount of reflection, but two would be recommended no matter what type of floor so I don't consider that making your choice any more difficult, plus throw rugs ae your friend.

Two subs stacked together or too close together really is no different than one larger sub.
 

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Discussion Starter #112
If you want to punch above the weight class of your budget, you either need to go used or peruse b-stock deals. For instance, PSA listed a V1500 for $650 the other day. You just need to e-mail PSA support from time to time or monitor their vendor forum on this site to see what they have. They don't really advertise and their b-stock inventory turns over fast.
Ty great idea. What is the V1500 normally?

Do you know of surround speaker deals like that on B stock that would be worth it over the Infinity's? Just curious. By the way I was just on craigslist looking for used. Nothing stuck out right now. Maybe I should set up everything else and wait for a good used sub to come on craigslist. Either way Im definitely getting a receiver as soon as I can decide between Yamaha SR-700, Denon 750, Denon X-1600H either for $450 factory refurbed at accessories for less (is factory refurbished a good idea for a receiver or more likely to break again than new?), or $600 new. I had it narrows down to the cheaper SR-700 and Denon 750, but then I saw that other one for $450 refurbed, and just like b stock it opened up new options. What if there is an even better one than that, refurbed, for $450. Can I trust refurbed? Etc. But definitely I have narrowed it down. I will almost certainly have purchased a receiver within the next 1-2 days, and possibly also a sub. And as soon as I can determine the TV height and then find furniture that fits it, that as well. Then when the big things are sorted, Ill do the easier stuff the cables etc.
 

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Ty. Do you think that one is better than the other ones listed by a hair, or basically a tie?

What's the X12 company?
Paradigm. they normally cost over $1000 but go on steep sale from time to time because MSRP is basically meaningless with retail store type subs, so the steep sale prices puts them more on the correct value plane relative to companies like SVS, Rythmik, hsu, etc.

You don't see large discounts with Hsu, Rythmik, JTR, and PSA because they run on very small margins as a matter of course. Basically small direct to consumer specialists, not owned by corporations, no middle men involved. You can actually cost out some of their components and see what it would roughly be to build DIY and you see how small their margins are in some cases.

The V1500 is a discontinued product and is likely a customer tradeup or return. They are fully inspected (usually by the owner himself) and are eligible for customer support. They sold for $1100.
 

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Given how little those infinity speakers cost on sale, you won't find anything better at their relative price level and they do sound good for that sale price level so unless you really want to really increase cost substantially, just go with them. I went many years with budget priced speaker myself and even now I consider my current speakers while higher in level than the infinity, still more towards the budget end.

Hsu has a bit more output than the Rythmik, but the Rhythmik is still in the ballpark and are a fine sub and some really prefer the Rythmik sound.
 

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Discussion Starter #116
I updated this thread and the OP to reflect the new information I've learned and how it has changed what I am looking for.

I finally narrowed down whether I need 1 sub or 2, because it turns out my two connected rooms count as one space from the perspective of bass, and that space is over 4,000 cubic feet with floors similar to concrete. I originally had a $300 sub budget approximately, and did not know how expensive they were or that I had this issue and needed two. I am not tire kicking, it's just gotten more difficult because of this. Even if I close to double my budget, I will still need to be more picky about finding the right deal.

For example, the JBL 550P is same MSRP as the current standard price of the Rythmik L2F subwoofer, but was recently on sale for $189.99. I dont know about that sub in particular, but it's a good example the type of discount I'm looking for. If what Im looking for is not available now, please advise what I should look for in the after Christmas sale.

If I could choose one in that price range to be able to get two of for that price, it would probably be the Rythmik L2F, or if not that, probably the HSU VTF cheapest or 2nd cheapest if it was available for 60% off. It sounds like maybe these particular models dont go on sale, so let me know if there are any as good that have in the past or will in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter #117
You won't find it on slickdeals. It never goes on sale and for good reason

By the way, you can pressurize a space with one sub, even a large space, however, the single sub would have to be larger to match the output of two smaller ones. Two subs properly separated and positioned give you a more even response, which can be especially helpful with a tile floor given the high amount of reflection, but two would be recommended no matter what type of floor so I don't consider that making your choice any more difficult, plus throw rugs ae your friend.

Two subs stacked together or too close together really is no different than one larger sub.
How can I plan my furniture for two subs? I had thought to put them side by side under the center TV shelf, since the speaker (towers) are to the sides of the TV. So basically with a 65 TV, that's like 50 inches wide or whatever, I have room for two subs in between under it, but no wider than the bordering tower speakers. So a 10 or 15 inch wide sub can be 30 to 20 inches apart from the other one, but no more. Is that even worth it then? Is that enough? The only way to create more separation is to have one under the TV, center sub, and then put one either behind me to the left, or behind me to the right, like a rear speaker. Or maybe it could go along the perpendicular wall, along the wall facing sideways through the gap between me and the TV, so that my line towards the TV directly intersects the line looking out from the side like +. But I dont know if that is allowed or if it will skew my surround sound like its coming way more from one side than the other?
 

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Experiment with all those locations. That is part of the setup process. Nothing wrong with one right behind you and one up front (in fact nearfield placement of one subwoofer will help with tactile response) but every room is different and has different "best" locations. Messing up your surround sound generally isn't an issue with subs as low frequencies are non-directional. I suggest you read here:
and also watch this video
 

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Discussion Starter #119
Experiment with all those locations. That is part of the setup process. Nothing wrong with one right behind you and one up front (in fact nearfield placement of one subwoofer will help with tactile response) but every room is different and has different "best" locations. Messing up your surround sound generally isn't an issue with subs as low frequencies are non-directional. I suggest you read here:
and also watch this video
Thank you. So many great helpful responses the last few days, I really appreciate it.
 
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