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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been reading through on these forums lately trying to figure out what kind of TV I would like to buy. There is tons of info to cover and I am not really any closer to deciding which TV I want so I though I would ask for direct advice. So here was I am looking for:


TV size: 40"-52" screen size

Type: 1080P 120/240Hz LCD or 600 Hz Plasma

Cost: $1200-$1500

Primary use: gaming


So from what I understand:

*LCDs are generally considered better for gaming because of the burn-in problem Plasmas can have, though this isn't supposed to be as big a deal as it used to be.

*Plasmas have virtually zero input lag vs. LCDs but some brands of LCDs also have very low input lag

*Plasmas can have an overheating issue from long use, not sure if this is still a problem or not.

*Plasmas have deeper blacks then LCDs and generally better colors and in general are cheaper then LCDs


My biggest concern with plasmas are the burn in problem as I play mainly RPGs there is almost always a static image somewhere on the screen. So unless that is no longer an issue I am leaning more towards an LCD


I hear the Sharp Aquos series generally have low input lag but Samsungs and Sonys have better picture quality.


I have been thinking about getting one of the following:

Sony KDL52V5100

Samsung 46B650/B750

Sharp LC46E77U or maybe the 52" version if I can afford it.

I am open to more options that just these, these are just the one I have read the most about.


So having said all that what are your opinions?
 

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I have the Sharp 46LE700, which, as far as I understand, is the 77U but LED backlit. As discussed in both the 77U and LE700 threads, both TV's have pretty much no input lag in game mode (I believe the consensus is 1 frame, or ~16ms). I know that I really enjoy it for playing my xbox 360, and I've had no issues otherwise with picture, color, sharpness, or anything else.


Also note that you are not going to be using the 120/240Hz while you are gaming...turning on these post processors is going to increase the amount of input lag generated, so these are always going to be turned off when you are playing.
 

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if you just play RPG type games mostly don't concern yourself with input lag too much


games that you should be concerned with input lag are

FPS games played online

Street Fighter type fighting games (combos require very quick timing)

rock band/GH games that do not have a lag compensator built in to the game


otherwise i'd say you will be just fine and will prolly never feel the lag on a sony or samsung TV as long as its in game mode
 

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Hi,

I am in the same boat as the original poster. I was pretty much settled on the Samsung lcd LN46B650. But I kept reading about this input lag. I will also use this tv for alot of xbox 360 gaming. (Mass Effect 2, Gears of War, etc).


(I did consider plasma, but we have two Samsung lcd's already and we love them, so I'm sticking with what works for us!)


So, I decided to take a trip to local retailer, they let me hook up my xbox 360 to the LN46B650. Here is what I found:


When @ 120Hz, I noticed input lag. It was very very subtle, but I noticed it. In Gears of War 2, when you have to reload your gun, you can hit the right bumper at the exact right moment to do a quicker reload. I noticed it then, and when I pull the trigger to fire, it was ever so slight input lag.


However, I had the guy turn on Game Mode: Lag gone. Very responsive, I didn't notice any lag when reloading or firing the gun. The picture quality still looked good enough for me.


Other than that, I think Gears looked amazing on the tv. I have been playing on a 32" samsung lcd for a few years now and I like LCD for gaming. I have a finished basement now so upgrading to 46" tv. I'm sold on the Samsung, it's bright, colors look great, xbox looks great on it in my opinion.


Oh, as for the Samsung LN46B650. I am finding it hard to find in stock (it's not even listed on Best Buy's website anymore). Reason, the 2010 model 650's will be out end of Feb, start of March (search Samsung C650 on Amazon). they have it for pre-order already, avail Feb 26th or so.


so, I'm waiting until then and getting LN46C650.
 

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Some RPG's require timing mechanisms in the game too...look at a game like Lost Odyssey and the ring system during battles...you need to be able to hit a button at an exact point to get a damage bonus. Input lag is important for all games...not just FPS/Music/Fighting.
 

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Burn in continues to be a massively overblown issue wrt plasmas. Burn in is really uneven phosphor wear that occurs over time. In a modern plasma the half brightness point is up to 100,000 hours. That means that you would have to have the same static image on screen for hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands, of hours before it would burn in. Here's a link to an article by the HD Guru on the issue and his attempts to burn in a plasma: http://hdguru.com/plasma-tv-burn-in-fact-or-myth/826/


If I were you, I'd cross burn in off my list of concerns and evaluate the sets based on their merits for gaming alone. In fact, I'll be in your position later this year as I plan to buy a large flat panel for gaming and I'm totally unconcerned about burn in.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheckyd /forum/post/18122260


Hi,

I am in the same boat as the original poster. I was pretty much settled on the Samsung lcd LN46B650. But I kept reading about this input lag. I will also use this tv for alot of xbox 360 gaming. (Mass Effect 2, Gears of War, etc).


(I did consider plasma, but we have two Samsung lcd's already and we love them, so I'm sticking with what works for us!)


So, I decided to take a trip to local retailer, they let me hook up my xbox 360 to the LN46B650. Here is what I found:


When @ 120Hz, I noticed input lag. It was very very subtle, but I noticed it. In Gears of War 2, when you have to reload your gun, you can hit the right bumper at the exact right moment to do a quicker reload. I noticed it then, and when I pull the trigger to fire, it was ever so slight input lag.


However, I had the guy turn on Game Mode: Lag gone. Very responsive, I didn't notice any lag when reloading or firing the gun. The picture quality still looked good enough for me.


Other than that, I think Gears looked amazing on the tv. I have been playing on a 32" samsung lcd for a few years now and I like LCD for gaming. I have a finished basement now so upgrading to 46" tv. I'm sold on the Samsung, it's bright, colors look great, xbox looks great on it in my opinion.


Oh, as for the Samsung LN46B650. I am finding it hard to find in stock (it's not even listed on Best Buy's website anymore). Reason, the 2010 model 650's will be out end of Feb, start of March (search Samsung C650 on Amazon). they have it for pre-order already, avail Feb 26th or so.


so, I'm waiting until then and getting LN46C650.

yeah typical lag figures for B series samsungs are 40-50ms in game mode and around 100ms


40-50ms difficult for most people to feel or notice easily but it will impact your gaming if you play games online because this lag gets added to your internet lag that with a broadband connection will be anywhere from 20-100ms or more depending on a lot of factors


100ms input lag is terrible, mouse cursor movements are laggy in windows if you were to connect a PC you will see this


another big problem with samsungs are 720p is even more laggy than 1080p due to the scalier in the TV so PS3 games are no go
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Okay first an update. I was at Sam's Club today and they have both the Samsung 52B610 and the Sharp C5277U for $1500. So now I am adding them in for consideration.


My thoughts on them are they both looked pretty good, with a slight edge to the Samsung however, I have a feeling the Samsung was playing a Blu-ray while the Sharp was playing an upscaled DVD, so it is hard to say which one is better looking overall. The Sam's Club by my house has a terrible selection for inputs, basically one input was used for a channel feed on some TVs others had a Blu-ray or DVD player hooked up but no options for tv viewing. One had a PS3 hooked up but had no game option and was only playing a DVD. Kind of a haphazard setup overall but I was still able to get a rough idea of what looked good to me.


My understanding on the B610 is that it is the Sam's Club version of the B630 so I will have to look into that to see if it has the bad input lag Frito was talking about with the B series. I mainly play RPGs but when one of them is Demons Souls if you don't time some actions just right your dead, so I would prefer the lag be as low as possible so it won't be the TVs fault when I die for the 40,000th time. The display model had an SQ01 panel for those interesting in the panel lottery. It looked really good, I just didn't have any way to test the possible input lag on it.


And if I recall correctly the C5277U is the Sam's Club version of the 52E77U which seems to be pretty highly regarded so I will research that one some more too. The only real problem with this one is they had a 46" version on display but looks like they are only selling 52" versions and they didn't have one of those displayed so I am unsure of the differences between the two.


@Sean Max - Thanks for clarifying the plasma issue, like I said I wouldn't consider it if the burn in was still an issue but if it has been largely resolved then I will consider adding a plasma or two to my list for consideration. I was only concerned because several posts on the Plasma boards kept mentioning burn in as a problem. Any thoughts on a good plasma? Panasonics seem to be highly regarded, but I haven't had as much research time on the plasma boards so I am not as familiar with the various models.



So if anyone has input on those new TVs mentioned or some other models for me to consider I would appreciate it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Okay after a lot of going back and forth on what TV to buy I finally decided to go with the Sharp LC46E77U. I was able to look at the 52" version of it at Sam's Club and while I liked it I think it is a little to large for my setup. I could make it work but I think I will be happier with the 46" since the other 46" sets looked better for my setup sizewise.


So now the only issue I have is where to get it. None of the stores offer the 46" locally so online is pretty much my only option.
 

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Plasma actually have lag. My Panasonic G15 have 30ms of lag on Native resolution whenever game or normal mode.in 480i the panel need to be in game mode to lower at 45ms.


If you want 42inch & bigger for LCD display, go with the Shap Aquos E77UN, but the game mode is hidden under the panel cover of the remote controller which is a bit annoying. I'm unsure about the actual result but I believe it do 15ms under game mode.


If you don't want to bother with lag at all, go with the Panasonic S1 LCD series, but they only sell them on 32 & 37inch. Also the native motion resolution & viewing angle is a lot better than the sharp Aquos. Though it is a 8bit panel unlike the aquos that is a 10bit panel.


Avoid LED panel at the moment. As soon as I get my hand on the TC-L42D2 I will post some lag result.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by frito /forum/post/18123024


yeah typical lag figures for B series samsungs are 40-50ms in game mode and around 100ms

I use a VGA cable with my 46A650 (2008 model), and there is no input lag in Halo 3 or MW2. Lag was pretty bad in regular mode (component). Didn't really try game mode, didn't like the oversaturated look.


I'd think for most TVs, using VGA would cure lag.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Deap /forum/post/18138318


If you don't want to bother with lag at all, go with the Panasonic S1 LCD series, but they only sell them on 32 & 37inch. Also the native motion resolution & viewing angle is a lot better than the sharp Aquos. Though it is a 8bit panel unlike the aquos that is a 10bit panel.

I had thought the Panasonic IPS-alpha was 10-bit.


Edit: there is some contradicting info online, most of it seems to claim "10 bit", now i'm wondering though.
 
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