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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have had this Def Tech setup for about 6 years and still going strong, however I have the 6 year itch which is pretty long for me.


These are currently being powered by a Denon 5308ci in a dedicated room.

2- BP2002

1- C/L/R2002

4- BPX


What would you consider the next level above these? I am not looking for the $50k+ Snells, maybe a budget of $10-15k minus the JL Fathoms. In-walls are ok as well as free-standing.


Could any of the Triad line would be considered an upgrade?


I would like to make a short list and then audition.


Thanks for the input

Mike
 

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Check Salk Sound for beautiful custom speakers. Mine are used with a pair of JL Audio F113s. Sound and look super!
 

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Could you give us the Music/Movies percentage?
 

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PSB Synchrony, PhaseTech dARTS digital system, NHT Xd digital system, Revel Performa for some, the first two better for movie orientation first, the latter for stereo listening first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
100% Movies, so also looking for matched surrounds as well (7.3 setup)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrantzM /forum/post/15574360


Could you give us the Music/Movies percentage?


So far the recommendations are:

PSB Synchrony

Phase Technology

Paradigm S-series

Seaton and JTR

Salk


Now will there be any benefit between an active speaker or powered by the 5308ci? JL has a Primacy series that are active speakers, anyone have experience with them?


Thanks again for the input...
 

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At that pricepoint I have to second the offerings from Mark Seaton- you're getting as close to a truly custom made product for your application as posssible for that budget. Plus I think you'd be hard pressed to find better value for the application (behind the screen), just PM Art Sonneborn and ask him how he feels about his system...it's Seaton.


dan
 

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I have Paradigm Reference 100v.3 fronts and CC-570 center and eventually will get ADP surrounds. At a local audio store, I have compared them to the Signature series, which is within your price range. I loved the Sigs, but they were out of my price range. The sales guy popped in a DVD Audio disc and just cranked it up. The sounded very good, but for me, I settled with the speakers I mentioned above. They still sound great, but a much better price tag.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I found a local dealer for B&W, they have a few models but nothing I was looking for:

Qty 7- CT8.4LCRS

or

Qty 7- CT7.3LCRS


Anyone have any experience with these?
 

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depends on your listening tastes--if you like focal try out he focal be series.

if that doesnt suit you maybe martin logan or b&w 8 series.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike C /forum/post/15575244


100% Movies, so also looking for matched surrounds as well (7.3 setup)


So far the recommendations are:

PSB Synchrony

Phase Technology

Paradigm S-series

Seaton and JTR

Salk


Now will there be any benefit between an active speaker or powered by the 5308ci? JL has a Primacy series that are active speakers, anyone have experience with them?


Thanks again for the input...

Hi Mike,


Just popping in to say hi and that I'll check on this thread when I can.



There are plenty of capable options being mentioned here and on your list. How large is your room, where are the speakers located around the screen, and do you have more than one row of seating? Are there factors you've heard in other systems you are looking to achieve in your room? What sort of acoustic treatments are or are not in the room?


You are fortunate in that there are many options available for audition in your area.



Enjoy the hunt!
 

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I would agree with mark that there are many capable options that have been listed. However, after playing around with speakers from M&K, Paradigm Reference, Infinity, and finally Focal Electra's, I found none of them could handle the dynamics of movies in a convincing way. I went DIY for a while, experimenting with various focal driver based setups of my own design, which improved on things a little, but still were not what I wanted. Eventually I discovered the wonders of high efficiency pro drivers. I also discovered Dr. Geddes' Gedlee Summa line of speakers. While I won't go so far as to say that these speakers are the worlds best and should be considered above all others, I would consider them if I were you. I would also consider other lines of speakers following a similar design mantra. Namely, waveguide loaded tweeters with pattern control down to 1000hz or so, high efficiency, and fairly sizable drivers to ensure low levels of power compression. Mark's line of speakers are a definite option as well. They are a bit more expensive than the Summa's, but do offer built in amplification, dsp room correction, time alignment, and biamplification, so their is a lot of added value in that regard. JBL's Everest and K2 speakers are another line of high efficiency speakers I am a big fan of, though I feel they aren't the best value.


Just a quick point on driver compression. While others here might consider this heresies, there is plenty of scientific research to go with this view. Small drivers have greater power compression than larger drivers regardless of design. While ton's of money can be spent on motor design, there are no 6" midrange drivers with the power compression abilities of a 12" or 15" driver covering a similar range. In other words, there is no way that a 6" driver is going to play say 800hz as cleanly and loudly as a 12" driver doing the same (assuming similarly good design for each). It has been my experience in my own designs and in my literature reviews that even combining multiple drivers such as in a line array can not fix this fully, especially with regard to small room acoustics. I also believe that crossover points have no business being anywhere in the area of 1500hz to 10khz, which is a common and major flaw in many speakers. I defy any speaker designed in that manner to show a decent polar response.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjpoes /forum/post/15589533


I would agree with mark that there are many capable options that have been listed. However, after playing around with speakers from M&K, Paradigm Reference, Infinity, and finally Focal Electra's, I found none of them could handle the dynamics of movies in a convincing way.

I agree with you to an extent on these. Electras, especially, get a bit strained at high volumes. That's why I like the Synchronies - they have VERY low distortion at 95dB + volumes, are reasonably efficient and err towards the smoother side of neutral. Never get strained, never get in your face. Xd does that as well, but they're almost too accurate for the very lossy DD sound tracks (equivalent to ~128mbs MP3). I've heard that the 6.5" bass driver they use in these is the lowest distortion 6.5" driver measured at the NRC in Canada and Soundstage's measurements tend to confirm that. My *only* criticisms of this speaker is that they're a little bass heavy if you don't plug the bottom port and they lack a bit of upper midrange presence for music. However, these actually seem to euphonically help movie sound tracks. Audyssey can correct for this anyway if desired.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Mark,


The room is 14.6wx18dx9h with one curved row of 4 Berkline 45015. No treatments yet, (planning on it with replacing speakers and room makeover). The screenwall is just that no false wall, so I cannot conceal anything s aesthetics do play a role. Any pics of the JTR's in lacquer black with grills floating around?


Any local place you know of to check out the JTR's, not ready for the 7-Catalyst.


Thanks for your input.


Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton /forum/post/15581829


Hi Mike,


Just popping in to say hi and that I'll check on this thread when I can.



There are plenty of capable options being mentioned here and on your list. How large is your room, where are the speakers located around the screen, and do you have more than one row of seating? Are there factors you've heard in other systems you are looking to achieve in your room? What sort of acoustic treatments are or are not in the room?


You are fortunate in that there are many options available for audition in your area.



Enjoy the hunt!
 

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I actually auditioned the Synchrony's in my own home for a short while when first released to the market. I took them back as they didn't offer what I wanted. This isn't to take away from other happy users of these speakers, but I didn't find they offered the efficiency or dynamic range I was looking for.


The 6.5" driver can be the lowest distortion measured, but besides that being a useless metric (most of the true scientific research on driver distortion shows IMD and THD to be poorly correlated with perception of distortion), that is not a function of power compression. I own one of the lowest distortion 6.5" drivers ever manufactured, as shown by its extremely smooth bl curve, low distortion numbers, and smaller than normal change in parameters at higher power levels. It's the Mpyer Audio 6.5M, and to do this, they had to make a driver with extremely low efficiency, this driver requires a ton of power. On top of that, it's response require a lot of shaping to get smooth, and a much simpler approach would simply be to use a much larger driver. I just don't agree that the Synchrony can even be in the same league as designs like I'm talking about, and I base this on my own experiences and measurements, as well as that of scientists in the field.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjpoes /forum/post/15595427


I actually auditioned the Synchrony's in my own home for a short while when first released to the market. I took them back as they didn't offer what I wanted.

Of course, no speaker is for everyone. I wouldn't choose them for my taste in stereo music speakers, but I find them to be exceptional at multi-channel sound.
Quote:
This isn't to take away from other happy users of these speakers, but I didn't find they offered the efficiency or dynamic range I was looking for.

Well, efficiency isn't a goal for everyone as power is cheap and plentiful. IME, efficient speakers simply reach their limits with less power. Do you mean actual dynamic range (Max SPL/min SPL) or do you mean the subjective 'sense' of dynamics?
Quote:
The 6.5" driver can be the lowest distortion measured, but besides that being a useless metric (most of the true scientific research on driver distortion shows IMD and THD to be poorly correlated with perception of distortion), that is not a function of power compression.

Not a totally useless metric, especially since these handle a lot of power and play very loud without strain because there are 2-3 of these in each speaker.
Quote:
I just don't agree that the Synchrony can even be in the same league as designs like I'm talking about, and I base this on my own experiences and measurements, as well as that of scientists in the field.

Maybe they are just different designs for different tastes. I have found that horn based speakers are far too colored and inaccurate for my tastes, even those that have been renamed as 'waveguides'. One of my customers was an engineer for a speaker company and we had an interesting conversation about the massive acoustic problems caused by horn designs. Others seem to love them. True horns typically, however, are hard to integrate into a home theater because of size and design.
 
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