AVS Forum banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been playing around with a little tool called "MasVis" ("mastring visualizer") and it's pretty neat, I think (not created by me). There's still work to be done and a couple rough edges to smooth out but the general idea has been to create a tool to visualize the often severe mastring artifacts present in todays recordings such as exessive compression and limiting.


The software will be released as freeware.


The input is a wav file and the output is a number of graphs that give a clear indication how messed up the mastring is. The graphs might be a little hard to interpret at first but with some explanation it will give you a pretty good indication just how destroyed todays CDs are.


Here's a report for a tune that show pretty severe (but sadly nowadays "normal") mastring artefacts:


*removed*


Here's an example of a much better mastered song that do not limit, have moderate compression and great dynamic headroom:

*removed*


I'll let you know when it's officially available



H
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes. It's about time to stop the loudess race. It's insane that most music today is so damaged in the mastring process that it's often clearly audible even through an iPhone's internal speaker.


With some simple standards in place all artists would be able to produce music with decent dynamics and still have it reproduced at comparably the same loudness level as those who prefer a clipped/distorted sound.


The tool here has been created in an attempt to visualize and explain that it's most often not the mix that is rough, lossy compression or bad speakers -it's the exessive compression and limiting that's legio in todays recordings that kills the sound.


H
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,476 Posts
Good luck, 99% of the population doesnt care so I do not see anything happening....but still good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,155 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/18292313


Good luck, 99% of the population doesnt care so I do not see anything happening....but still good luck

I think it's worse than "they don't care". I'm convinced that most people can't even recognize it. I've been a long time participant in the "concert DVD music thread" where many people keep posting about how great the audio quality of many concert DVDs is. Many of those are just unlistenable due to loudness. I mostly don't even comment in that thread any more because I have a label of one that only complains about loudness.


Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/18292313


Good luck, 99% of the population doesnt care so I do not see anything happening....but still good luck

There's a difference between not caring and not knowing. 99% of the population dosn't know about it and have no clue how destroyed the sound they listen to really is, and how plesant it could sound in their low end portable equipment, should the industry go back to the RMS levels used 20 years ago.


BTW, the masses obviously care enough about visual quality to buy 1080p TVs and Blue-Ray players like there was no tomorrow. The bizarre thing is that most movie sound tracks released on DVD and Blue-Ray are way more dynamic and well produced than the bulk of all music releases.


So in that segment the trend seems to be an urge for higher quality experiences which points in the opposite direction than what the music and radio broadcasting industry has taken.


H
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekb /forum/post/18292835


I think it's worse than "they don't care". I'm convinced that most people can't even recognize it. I've been a long time participant in the "concert DVD music thread" where many people keep posting about how great the audio quality of many concert DVDs is. Many of those are just unlistenable due to loudness. I mostly don't even comment in that thread any more because I have a label of one that only complains about loudness.


Ed

As I'm sure you allready know, sound played back at a little higher volumes typically sound more engaging -that's what started the loudness race in the first place. But, compare the maxed out dynamically compressed, limited track to a version without exessive compression and with the dynamics intact the same volume level...



H
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,768 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by hevi /forum/post/18293025


So in that segment the trend seems to be an urge for higher quality experiences which points in the opposite direction than what the music and radio broadcasting industry has taken.H

That's an interesting point.


As it is, the market for music is driven by price, portability, and ease-of-access (IMO) - none of which actually has any bearing on what we're talking about here. But in the absence of a selective force for better quality, the other forces drive changes in the available "music-pool."


If the music business was willing to release side-by-side presses of a CD - one "normal" (i.e. loud) and the other "hi-fi" or "HD" (i.e. well mastered) then you might see some preferences emerge from the general public, and the resulting market-pressure "should" improve things. But, like I said, the option has to be there like it is for movies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I really wouldn't be complaining about this if we talked about subtle differences typically only audible in a stationary hi-fi rig, but it's getting silly when a low-bitrate mp3 version of the orignial release of say Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean" is so much smoother, engaging and vibrant than the latest "remastered" version played through an IPod + headphones.


Heck, you really got to wonder what went wrong when you can do a demo of the "loudness race", post it on YouTube and the degredation IS STILL PERFECTLY AUDIBLE using your crappy computer headphones! Through YouTube!



H
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,674 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/18292313


Good luck, 99% of the population doesnt care so I do not see anything happening....but still good luck

Many of the people who now have their entire CD collections (plus downloads) on MP3 players like to put them on random and have everything come out the same perceived volume level regardless of how it was originally recorded; so automatic leveling is starting to show up.


With that functionality there will be no reason to make recordings "louder" since the average will be the same regardless of whether you recorded at -6dBFS or -18dBFS RMS.


MP3Gain would be a free example which changes the encoding of existing MP3s; there are other technologies out there though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,729 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt /forum/post/18297890


Many of the people who now have their entire CD collections (plus downloads) on MP3 players like to put them on random and have everything come out the same perceived volume level regardless of how it was originally recorded; so automatic leveling is starting to show up.


With that functionality there will be no reason to make recordings "louder" since the average will be the same regardless of whether you recorded at -6dBFS or -18dBFS RMS.


MP3Gain would be a free example which changes the encoding of existing MP3s; there are other technologies out there though.

Yeah, I personally use Replay Gain for those circumstances with my FLAC files. I often make playlists that combine 80s/90s releases with some ridiculously loud releases of today, so this is a must. Since the relevant information is only stored in metadata, you just have to turn Replay Gain off at the playback level in order to forgo the volume adjustment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
734 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by hevi /forum/post/18293025


BTW, the masses obviously care enough about visual quality to buy 1080p TVs and Blue-Ray players like there was no tomorrow.

H


I think the masses buy 1080p TVs because because of marketing and availability rather than the quality difference.


I agree that 99% don't know about CD loudness. I didn't know what it was until I started reading AVS. I just knew that I hated it when one CD was drastically louder than another.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by unavol /forum/post/18299538


I think the masses buy 1080p TVs because because of marketing and availability rather than the quality difference.

Then (rethorical question) why don't they market "turn me up technology mastered" CDs? It's friggin free of chage for the industry, and it's something that "the masses" can actually relate to and benefit from. Strange...


H
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top