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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,


I'm probably getting in way over my head here, but, I'm wondering if there any low cost colorimeters/calibrators for helping out in making "white balance" (two point grayscale?) adjustments? Mainly red, green, and blue offsets and gains. I'd be using it with a Samsung LN46D550 CCFL backlit LCD TV mostly, but I have some other LCD displays I'd love to try it on too.


I'd say I feel reasonably comfortable eye balling most basic display settings with the help of test patterns and images, but, if an inexpensive colorimeter can help out a bit with white balance and lend an extra hand with the rest I'm willing to consider one. I'd like to stay under two hundred bucks.


Is compatibility with "wide gamut" displays a factor I should be concerned about with older meters? I was looking at offerings from X-Rite/Pantone/Colormunki and Spyder mostly.


Thanks in advance for any advice.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by John4721 /forum/post/21498093


Hi all,


I'm probably getting in way over my head here, but, I'm wondering if there any low cost colorimeters/calibrators for helping out in making "white balance" (two point grayscale?) adjustments? Mainly red, green, and blue offsets and gains. I'd be using it with a Samsung LN46D550 CCFL backlit LCD TV mostly, but I have some other LCD displays I'd love to try it on too.


I'd say I feel reasonably comfortable eye balling most basic display settings with the help of test patterns and images, but, if an inexpensive colorimeter can help out a bit with white balance and lend an extra hand with the rest I'm willing to consider one. I'd like to stay under two hundred bucks.


Is compatibility with "wide gamut" displays a factor I should be concerned about with older meters? I was looking at offerings from X-Rite/Pantone/Colormunki and Spyder mostly.


Thanks in advance for any advice.

How much at most do you want to spend? The cheapest solution would probably be to buy an X-Rite i1 Display 2 (can be bought for about $100 on ebay) and use the free HCFR software. The next step up would be to get the new Colormunki/i1 Display 3 with CalMAN. The new meters from X-Rite are supposed to be fabulous (few negative reviews due to older software but updates have fixed these issues).
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply, avfanatic1. I'd say two hundred dollars is my firm upper limit, but, lower is better if possible. If I can get better performance and/or simpler usage I'm more willing to approach my budget limits.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by John4721 /forum/post/21498256


Thanks for the reply, avfanatic1. I'd say two hundred dollars is my firm upper limit, but, lower is better if possible. If I can get better performance and/or simpler usage I'm more willing to approach my budget limits.

Too bad your limit isn't $250. Then it would be a no-brainer. That's the cost of the i1 display pro 3 (retail version). If you haven't read up on it, I'll summarize: It blows everything else out of the water that costs less than $1,000. So yeah, that's the meter I got. But I'm going professional, so I'm going to get the C6 this month (which is actually the EXACT SAME meter as the i1 Display Pro 3 but with extra bells and whistles and a NIST certification - and costs $700).


In fact, now that I think about it, I won't need my i1 display pro 3 now that I'm going with the C6. ... I'll PM you.
 

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This article is a bit troubling for DIY'ers like myself that have a colorimeter as their only meter. I have the C6, which is the meter tested in that article. It seems without a spectro to correct the C6 against for the actual display being calibrated, the end results can deviate substantially from the reference standards.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U /forum/post/21498725


This article is a bit troubling for DIY'ers like myself that have a colorimeter as their only meter. I have the C6, which is the meter tested in that article. It seems without a spectro to correct the C6 against for the actual display being calibrated, the end results can deviate substantially from the reference standards.

I'm not sure why this should be a surprise unless you are totally new to anyting DIY calibration and/or new to AVS.. it's been discussed many times before..


In reality, there is only one meter available up to $2K that you can rely on with most displays and which is still used my may Professional Calibrators. I have always recommended it before all others before $2K..


It's the i1Pro....


Some topics:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1373556

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post18862343

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31


will edit with more links...


You can choose to trust this, or not..



Your concern will be asked/posted again, many times.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZandarKoad /forum/post/21498703


But I'm going professional, so I'm going to get the C6 this month (which is actually the EXACT SAME meter as the i1 Display Pro 3 but with extra bells and whistles and a NIST certification - and costs $700).

A bit off topic, but I was wondering what you meant by "going professional" in this case? Does that mean calibrating other displays for income, or just upgrading your own gear to a higher level of performance?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe /forum/post/21499059


I'm not sure why this should be a surprise unless you are totally new to anyting DIY calibration and/or new to AVS.. it's been discussed many times before..


In reality, there is only one meter available up to $2K that you can rely on with most displays and which is still used my may Professional Calibrators. I have always recommended it before all others before $2K..


It's the i1Pro....


Some topics:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1373556

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post18862343

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31


will edit with more links...


You can choose to trust this, or not..



Your concern will be asked/posted again, many times.

I must agree with Turbe...i1pro


RayJr
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe /forum/post/21499059


I'm not sure why this should be a surprise unless you are totally new to anyting DIY calibration and/or new to AVS.. it's been discussed many times before..


In reality, there is only one meter available up to $2K that you can rely on with most displays and which is still used my may Professional Calibrators. I have always recommended it before all others before $2K..


It's the i1Pro....


Some topics:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1373556

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post18862343

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31


will edit with more links...


You can choose to trust this, or not..



Your concern will be asked/posted again, many times.

how well does the ColorMunki Spectro hold up to the i1PRO?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U /forum/post/21499191


how well does the ColorMunki Spectro hold up to the i1PRO?

it holds up pretty well but awkward for placement*... it's #2 on my list!


See:


getting links


Edit: I will edit this Post :Edit
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe /forum/post/21499203


it holds up pretty well but awkward for placement... it's #2 on my list!

any notable differences in overall accuracy?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U /forum/post/21499217


any notable differences in overall accuracy?

No


I'm getting the links for my above post... it might not be tonight....


Honestly, if you are not going to listen to Michael, Rayjr, others in regards, there really is no point in my posts on this.. They don't have benefit if you buy one meter or another.. I do... but buy the I1Pro.. I don't care from where...!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit /forum/post/21499131


A bit off topic, but I was wondering what you meant by "going professional" in this case? Does that mean calibrating other displays for income, or just upgrading your own gear to a higher level of performance?

The former.


And on topic: Why is everyone talking about the iPro when he clearly said his price ceiling was $200?


And off topic again: Since I'm in the market, what is all this about the iPro being better than the C6? I thought the C6 was just as good seeing as it was corrected using a much more accurate spectrophotometer than the iPro, and that the C6 was FASTER than the iPro since it's a colorimeter... Are there still common display types out there that the C6 isn't corrected for? What else am I missing? Or is it that you need to use the C6 with Calman to get the most out of it... thus it is 'limited' unlike the iPro?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZandarKoad /forum/post/21499293


The former.


And on topic: Why is everyone talking about the iPro when he clearly said his price ceiling was $200?

I was replying to PlasmaPZ80U's Post, not the OP's...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZandarKoad /forum/post/21499293


And off topic again: Since I'm in the market, what is all this about the iPro being better than the C6? I thought the C6 was just as good seeing as it was corrected using a much more accurate spectrophotometer than the iPro, and that the C6 was FASTER than the iPro since it's a colorimeter... Are there still common display types out there that the C6 isn't corrected for? What else am I missing? Or is it that you need to use the C6 with Calman to get the most out of it... thus it is 'limited' unlike the iPro?

See from my Post's above ^^^

Quote:
Your concern will be asked/posted again, many times.

and in the same Thread
 

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These two articles are too old to be of use in the C6 vs iPro discussion:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post18862343
http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31

If my memory serves me correctly (and it usually NEVER does), the D3/C6 came out in mid 2011. It was described as a 'game changer' blah blah blah, best colorimeter ever (under $1000), etc, so much so that it's hard to believe the considerations before have much bearing. Maybe I'm wrong.


This article does talk about the D3, but just barely mentions the C6:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1373556


This article is the best, most on topic and in depth article I've read on the debate so far: http://www.tlvexp.ca/2011/12/do-cali...-stim-devices/ . So thank you for that Plasma. I apologize for not reading it complete before posting my question.


That article makes the case that even the C6 (which seems to be marketed as the most accurate, corrected colorimeter on the market in it's price range - and even has a special NIST certificate to prove it) and it's correction tables are not nearly as accurate as an iPro. It makes this case on the basis that the C6 is not corrected against hundreds and hundreds of displays of a given type, but rather "one or two or three at most". It also shows some compelling practical example data of the effects of the inaccuracies.


So at this particular moment and time I'd have to go with the iPro despite it's speed handicap, and the fact that it's more expensive. But not by much. The C6 is only $200 cheaper than the iPro for sale on spectracal's site. Their in the same price range. What I need to know though, is why doesn't Spectracal do hundreds corrections on hundreds of displays to build their tables? Is it because they would need to do it hundreds of times on EVERY SINGLE METER they certify, which would drive the cost way above $700?


It's also hard to swallow the implication correction tables can never ever compete at all with even an iPro. The marketing gives the distinct impression that the colorimeter has the same accuracy as it's correcting spectrophotometer (a $40,000+ meter). If the aforementioned article is correct, then it's utter hogwash.


So iPro for me! A potential 2 or 3 dE discrepancy (as reported by Michael TLV) is way way to much to tolerate if I'm charging for my services.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZandarKoad /forum/post/21500190


These two articles are too old to be of use in the C6 vs iPro discussion:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post18862343
http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31

If my memory serves me correctly (and it usually NEVER does), the D3/C6 came out in mid 2011. It was described as a 'game changer' blah blah blah, best colorimeter ever (under $1000), etc, so much so that it's hard to believe the considerations before have much bearing. Maybe I'm wrong.


This article does talk about the D3, but just barely mentions the C6:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1373556


This article is the best, most on topic and in depth article I've read on the debate so far: http://www.tlvexp.ca/2011/12/do-cali...-stim-devices/ . So thank you for that Plasma. I apologize for not reading it complete before posting my question.


That article makes the case that even the C6 (which seems to be marketed as the most accurate, corrected colorimeter on the market in it's price range - and even has a special NIST certificate to prove it) and it's correction tables are not nearly as accurate as an iPro. It makes this case on the basis that the C6 is not corrected against hundreds and hundreds of displays of a given type, but rather "one or two or three at most". It also shows some compelling practical example data of the effects of the inaccuracies.


So at this particular moment and time I'd have to go with the iPro despite it's speed handicap, and the fact that it's more expensive. But not by much. The C6 is only $200 cheaper than the iPro for sale on spectracal's site. Their in the same price range. What I need to know though, is why doesn't Spectracal do hundreds corrections on hundreds of displays to build their tables? Is it because they would need to do it hundreds of times on EVERY SINGLE METER they certify, which would drive the cost way above $700?


It's also hard to swallow the implication correction tables can never ever compete at all with even an iPro. The marketing gives the distinct impression that the colorimeter has the same accuracy as it's correcting spectrophotometer (a $40,000+ meter). If the aforementioned article is correct, then it's utter hogwash.


So iPro for me! A potential 2 or 3 dE discrepancy (as reported by Michael TLV) is way way to much to tolerate if I'm charging for my services.

For the DIY enthusiast like myself the D3/C6 is a game changer, especially if it stays accurate for more than a couple of years. For the pro, that charges big bucks, I would not want to see them show up with either one if these and no Spectro to profile it off of. For my uses (DIY), a small error in the calibrated image accuracy is way less error than the non calibrated errors, and the added expenses of a second meter to get more accuracy is not currently worth the cost .. as a DIY/Enthusiast.


I have calibrated 1 CRT, 2 DLP front projectors, 2 LCD TVs, and 2 LCD monitors with very acceptable results using the C6 alone. If I was to start charging as much as the least expensive professional service available, I would want a spectro to profile the 6C. If you are planning to charging for service, you would be better off getting both a D3-C6/I1pro so you have speed and known accuracy.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe /forum/post/21499222



Honestly, if you are not going to listen to Michael, Rayjr, others in regards, there really is no point in my posts on this.. They don't have benefit if you buy one meter or another.. I do... but buy the I1Pro.. I don't care from where...!

And where did I indicate I wasn't going to listen to their advice? Seems like an unwarranted accusation.


On a separate note, in the future I might consider getting a used ColorMunki spectro or i1PRO if the overall cost is not too much including periodic maintenance OR consider a professional calibration instead.


What's the cheapest I can expect to get one of these spectros for in used but good condition and what kind of maintenance costs would be typical for owning one of these?


If I go the professional calibration route, would it be possible to get a full calibration done properly (including 10-pt white balance/gamma and CMS) for about $150-$200? I live in the central jersey area and can't really afford the typical $350 to $450 fee (I've already spent too much on my CalMAN DIY/C6 combo and can't justify spending much more at the present time).
 

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Greetings


You could try to talk a cal guy into letting you profile your meter with his spectro ... for that kind of money. It's only really good for your stuff ... and you might get him back in a year or so to recheck it to ...


You still end up doing your own calibrations with your gear.


This be a Calman thing of course.


regards
 

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Hi,


I just purchased an Eye One Pro for what most people pay for colorimeters. (And almost low enough to fit the OP's budget.)


I've very excited about it and love seeing it recommended so often here.


I hope some of the Eye One Pro users can help me get up and running with it.


Most of the posts about HCFR don't pertain to the Eye One because using it with a colorimeter is much more popular.


I do think I know how to profile my existing Display2 to the EyeOne but I plan to use the EyeOne for most of the measurements.


-Brian
 
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