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If you are a Crestron dealer I am sure you have heard about Crestron's new "Prodigy" system and now it's public knowledge. We were told that it should be out by the end of the year. I am sure we will see it at CEDIA.


Crestron's Prodigy is designed to be programmed by the end user themselves and starts at a lower price point than Control4. A system will start at $200-$300 with 2 way communication and support up to 16 zones of audio.


You can read about it HERE !
 

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Wow, I thought the cost would be comparable to C4, and that the end-user couldn't program.


I guess they'll keep installation to pros?
 

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It kind of brings up a number of wierd issues, it seems to me:


1. It doesn't matter if it only costs $200, because the costs for the professional installer to install it would vastly outweigh that cost. So what's the big deal. If the cost for the installed system went from $20K to $18K, or some such thing, is that really going to make a difference?


2. If #1 isn't true, then where is the pro installer making him money from installing it, and why would he want to if he isn't making any?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey /forum/post/16866115


It kind of brings up a number of wierd issues, it seems to me:


1. It doesn't matter if it only costs $200, because the costs for the professional installer to install it would vastly outweigh that cost. So what's the big deal. If the cost for the installed system went from $20K to $18K, or some such thing, is that really going to make a difference?


2. If #1 isn't true, then where is the pro installer making him money from installing it, and why would he want to if he isn't making any?

1. Much easier to program than the higher end Crestron systems (GUI vs. SIMPL)? Make money on upsells? "Your door bell only has 2 gongs, your neighbor's has 3". Different, new marketshare - no cannibalizing.


2. Upselling, foot in the door, new clients. The controller is $300, but what does it control?


Funny flame war at RC.com.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey /forum/post/16866115


It kind of brings up a number of wierd issues, it seems to me:


1. It doesn't matter if it only costs $200, because the costs for the professional installer to install it would vastly outweigh that cost. So what's the big deal. If the cost for the installed system went from $20K to $18K, or some such thing, is that really going to make a difference?


2. If #1 isn't true, then where is the pro installer making him money from installing it, and why would he want to if he isn't making any?

Heres whats happening right now to CI firms that do not have an inhouse programmer....


Lets say the job is $20k, labor and hardware. Hiring a programmer is between $2k-$5k. Now your job went from $20k to $25k. C4 or RTI company comes in and does the $20k job for $20k. The Crestron firm will get beat on price on just about any low and mid level system because programming cost does not change. There is no entry level programming pricing.. its all the same and all based on zones and sources and subsystems etc etc.


System Builder has been allowing dealers to remove the programming charges from the total cost on lower end systems but its not powerful enough to compete with boxed products and Crestron hardware is more expensive. So @ $20K you have a C4 system with a richer feature set than you could pull off using Crestron.


In walks prodigy. If it is what the marketing department says it is and it can quickly, easily be configured (like RTI or URC) to offer a feature set that compares to C4 for the same $.. It will keep existing Crestron dealers from bringing on C4 and it will split new dealers with C4. Meaning instead of 4 new dealers for C4 this month.. only 2 because the other 2 signed with Prodigy.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad /forum/post/16866171


1. Much easier to program than the higher end Crestron systems (GUI vs. SIMPL)? Make money on upsells? "Your door bell only has 2 gongs, your neighbor's has 3". Different, new marketshare - no cannibalizing.


2. Upselling, foot in the door, new clients. The controller is $300, but what does it control?


Funny flame war at RC.com.

But how expandable is it? If it's not very, then how much upselling can you do? If you have to yank it out and put in another one, aren't you even worse off? If it is pretty expandable, then isn't actually cannablizing their larger systems, which I can't imagine that they'd let happen.


Do they really have the heft to pull a Microsoft and destroy a competitor (e.g. Pen Systems) just by bluffing with a product that they don't really care if it flies or not? I.e. it was worth the cost to put it together to spread sufficient doubt about Control4 to tank them, such that even if it never makes any money if it does that it will have been worth it?


Conspiracy theory of the day I guess.
 

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I don't think it's really very much to do with us. I doubt they are even aware of us. And, the thing is, we can sell a very inexpensive system as well, and one that won't have to be replaced with a much more expensive one in order to later upsell the customer, since it's not limited by hardware. So I don't think it's really a threat to us in the cost sense.


Obviously it's targeted at C4. From our perspective, being a little cynical about it, it's potentially the best thing that could happen. C4 is competing more in our area. If Crestron destroys them, they aren't a threat anymore. If Crestron, in the process, creates huge conflict in the installer community by being seen as a destructive Microsoft type competitor, that could only be to our benefit, particularly if they actually do destroy C4 in the process.


So, the optimum outcome for us is that C4 is destroyed and Crestron comes out of it looking like an anti-competitive Microsoft-type company that is abusing its position, and that makes new installers coming along a lot less interested in doing business with them.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey /forum/post/16872628


I don't think it's really very much to do with us. I doubt they are even aware of us. And, the thing is, we can sell a very inexpensive system as well, and one that won't have to be replaced with a much more expensive one in order to later upsell the customer,

I think someone suggested that some place but can't remember where
.

Quote:
So I don't think it's really a threat to us in the cost sense.

If they sell the whole thing for less than the cost of CQC software alone, then it is going to have an impact. Your best protection will be if they do not allow end-user prograrmming. While they have been quoted as allowing that, I will wait to see them actually deliver on this to believe it.

Quote:
Obviously it's targeted at C4. From our perspective, being a little cynical about it, it's potentially the best thing that could happen. C4 is competing more in our area. If Crestron destroys them, they aren't a threat anymore.

The only way they "destory" C4, is to create a viable and healthy business for their dealers. In which case, they will replace C4 as another competitor for you.

Quote:
If Crestron, in the process, creates huge conflict in the installer community by being seen as a destructive Microsoft type competitor, that could only be to our benefit, particularly if they actually do destroy C4 in the process.

I don't get this Microsoft reference. A company building a product to serve the same market at similar price is something that happens day in, day out. There is nothing unusual or different about it. Lest you think Ford is a "Microsoft" to Toyota just because they have similar cars at similar pricing...

Quote:
So, the optimum outcome for us is that C4 is destroyed and Crestron comes out of it looking like an anti-competitive Microsoft-type company that is abusing its position, and that makes new installers coming along a lot less interested in doing business with them.

Crestron is not abusing its position. It is simply offering a lower range product line. Again, something many other companies do. I see it making their Crestron dealers happier by giving them something rather than having them learn to deal with another company like C4.


To be clear, I don't have a personal position on the product until we learn more...
 

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Well, I was being a bit conspiracy theory silly, but various folks have said that they were told that the purpose of this product was to toast C4. Whether that's true or not, I dunno.


In the conspiracy theory view, they wouldn't have to establish a real presence to replace C4. C4 is a much smaller company, and much of it's growth is dependent on the belief that it's becoming viable. The whole cycle of life thing. People believe that they now will survive, so more people buy their stuff, so they are more likely to survive. The Microsoft strategy is to just spread enough fear, uncertainty, and doubt (that the big dog is about to come in and show how it's done) to erode that confidence in a bright and assured future. The cycle of life works both ways.


I mean, if Crestron really was interested in that market, they've had years and decades to do so. But they didn't do it. So how really interested could they be? Why only bring this product out now?


Anyway, as I said, I'm just playing the Grassy Knoll Advocate, and not totally seriously. But it is awfully suspicious, that is should come out now, that it's avowed purpose is to destroy a potential competitor, and that the companyd doing it has ignored that market pretty totally up until now.


And of course there's the whole alien intelligence thing and the Obama administration and all that.


But I do think that it will introduce somes issues for them. It's hard to have two lovers (who know about each other) and keep them both happy. They have all those existing Crestron installers, who now could find themselves bidding against less capable folks selling a much cheaper product, from the same company. It could get interesting.
 

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Sounds like it makes sense to get in to compete in the lower end market, there are plenty of folks out there who don't want or need a completely custom solution and Crestron never really served them. Should be interesting.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey /forum/post/16873520


I mean, if Crestron really was interested in that market, they've had years and decades to do so. But they didn't do it. So how really interested could they be? Why only bring this product out now?

This kind of logic would have had the music industry selling mp3's well before napster & the ipod
. Never assume that companies know what they are doing.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 39CentStamp /forum/post/16898163


What the heck does the ML-600 have to do with destroying Control4?

You can take the ML600 and beat the crap out of a C4 touchpanel with it, that might 'destroy C4.'
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey /forum/post/16872628


I don't think it's really very much to do with us. I doubt they are even aware of us. And, the thing is, we can sell a very inexpensive system as well, and one that won't have to be replaced with a much more expensive one in order to later upsell the customer, since it's not limited by hardware. So I don't think it's really a threat to us in the cost sense.


Obviously it's targeted at C4. From our perspective, being a little cynical about it, it's potentially the best thing that could happen. C4 is competing more in our area. If Crestron destroys them, they aren't a threat anymore. If Crestron, in the process, creates huge conflict in the installer community by being seen as a destructive Microsoft type competitor, that could only be to our benefit, particularly if they actually do destroy C4 in the process.


So, the optimum outcome for us is that C4 is destroyed and Crestron comes out of it looking like an anti-competitive Microsoft-type company that is abusing its position, and that makes new installers coming along a lot less interested in doing business with them.

Or, it could make C4 more competitive, and the two co-exist in the market, still offering compeition to you forcing everyone to make a better product at a better price, in the end as a win for the customer.


But who would want that?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpapa /forum/post/16898190


you can take the ml600 and beat the crap out of a c4 touchpanel with it, that might 'destroy c4.'

lmao
 

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Since you are posting pictures of these I really hate the fact that crestron is using windows CE on these panels its really annoying
 
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