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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,


Cam, please come see my setup ASAP. Dinner is mine! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Last night I saw Cam's Sharp 9000 720p DLP on a Stewart 16x9 GrayHawk wall screen. Video processor is a Faroudja 720p NRS and a Sony 9000ES DVD player. The projector is running in low-light output mode.


Not a good picture in my opinion. Picture is very noisy and over enhanced (EE and ringing). Color is dull. Red looks purple and fleshtone looks yellowish. Black level is worse than the LT150 (brighter) while shadow detail is lacking. Clipping in high contrast. White is too hot. And, the dithering and crosshatching type motion artifacts is still there like the LT150 and all other 1-chip DLP projector. I tried to do some adjustment in the 9000 menu but can't help much.


One the good side, rainbow is almost gone (according to a rainbow guy in the test!) and I can't hear the projector over my head 3' away, aka no fan noise.


Then we tried the LT150 from CKL. After some minor adjustment (brightness/contrast/color/white balance) on the LT150, WOW, a great picture on the Grayhawk. The Grayhawk definitely help to bring more shadow detail while keeping a good black level. Color is VERY smooth and accurate. Picture is very clean and 3D. In HDTV playback, the absolute resolution is a bit lower than the 9000 but the LT150 picture is free from edge enhancement. Picture dynamic is a bit weaker than the 9000 but a 1.3-1.5 gain screen should help the punch effect.


On the bad side, our rainbow guy saw TONS of rainbow now. And we can hear the fan noise on quiet scene.


All in all, the LT150 is still KING. NO other digital projector I saw does better HDTV than the LT150. And the LT150 is still the only digital projector I saw that produces CORRECT color tone compared to a CRT projector picture.


Enjoy! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif And hope the 9000 can be improve with more calibration.


regards,


Li On
 

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Li On


That review is nothing like the display I saw at CEDIA. Something is really wrong with that 9000.


Kei Clark

Digital Connection
 

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Li On,


Have you seen a properly set up HT200DM with input via a progressive DVD player?


The colors on this projector are absolutely brilliant, with stunning black level and contrast and no rainbows!


Interested in your thoughts.


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Derek
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi Kei,


I hope you're right. I just wrote what I saw. And the setup is suppose the best for the 9000. And I tried everything in the 9000 setup menu to get things right. But I can't. Btw, I can't find the RGB gain/bias adjustment on the 9000 using the 5 RCA input. I'm sure the white balance option is hidden somewhere and should help the picture after calibrated.


On the other hand, if someone said the LT150 looks worse than the 9000 in a A/B comparsion, then IMO there's something really wrong with that LT150.


Once we get a anamorphic lens on the LT150, it should blow away the 9000 in HDTV pure resolution!


regards,


Li On
 

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I don't mean to be rude but it seems you need to try other (better calibrated) projectors before making such a huge claim cause while good (if you don't mind rainbow) the LT150 is far from being the end all digital projector you think it is. Of course if you like it and are happy with it then it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks anyway...

Regards
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by VU:
Have you seen a properly set up HT200DM with input via a progressive DVD player?
Hi Derek,


I'd posted my finding about the Seleco 200DM. Search the forum for it. Warm you, you'll not like my opinion to the 200DM.


My suggestion, unless you're rainbow sensitive, go see a properly setup LT150. Then you'll know what's a good picture.


As much as I hate the LT150. It's still KING among 1-chip DLP projectors.


regards,


Li On
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi,


The Grayhawk screen helps to reduce the screen door effect. On my Vutec 1.5 gain screen, I can feel the LT150 pixel grid on bright area at 2H viewing distance. On the Grayhawk, the screen door effect is completely gone. The only drawback is not enough punch effect compared to higher gain screen.


Btw, the Faruodja NRS at 720p works GREAT with the LT150 in cinema (anamorphic) mode. The LT150 sees it as a 720p HD signal. There's almost NO scaling artifact and the picture is great. Now someone please release a 720p DVD player! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


regards,


Li On
 

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Li On,


Quick question, was the DVD output progressive or NTSC?


I don't doubt what you saw, but I've got to say that ESPECIALLY for HDTV, the 1280x720 DLP are much better. I have a XGA DLP, and that is the one thing I observed. As many have stated, the Sharp and Seleco demos at CEDIA was quite good, and the resolution difference was quite dramatic. In fact, after seeing the higher resolution images, I immediately became quite disenchanged with the downconversion of HD on the XGA DLP.


Kei Clark

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Li On,


I couldn't find your comments on the HT200DM, but I guess you didn't like it. Each to their own I suppose. I did see a lot of your comments about the LT150 and was somewhat confused ie "great, but can't live with it!". The HT200DM is optimised for DVD playback, and with this source it does an outstanding job. I notice that your viewing was geared towards HD sources. I guess it is interesting that all HT200DM owners are very satisfied with their choice. This may seem like stating the obvious (why buy what you don't like!), but is not always the case, especially after prolonged use.


Regards,


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Derek
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Kei Clark:
Quick question, was the DVD output progressive or NTSC?
Hi Kei,


I don't expect such simple question. Of course it's the answer you expected. The Sony 9000ES DVD player output at 480i component to the Faroudja NRS 720p, then via 5 BNCs RGBHV to the Sharp 9000 5 RCAs.


In the LT150 connection, the only change is the NRS 720p output is in component format from it's 15pin monitor port using a 15pin to 5 BNC breakout cable, then another 5 BNC breakout cable to 15pin to the LT150 15pin input. We only connected the RGB plug between the 2 breakout cable as the signal is actually in YPbPr carried in the RGB pin. That's because the cinema (anamorphic) mode is only actived in component input on the LT150.


Any better question?


regards,


Li On
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by VU:
The HT200DM is optimised for DVD playback, and with this source it does an outstanding job. I notice that your viewing was geared towards HD sources. I guess it is interesting that all HT200DM owners are very satisfied with their choice.
I watched around 80% DVD, 10% LD (rewatch old discs!) and 10% HD. I want to watch more HD but there's just not enough new source.


Anyway, besides all other problems, the screen door effect alone on the 200DM make the picture unwatchable IMO. Of course a longer viewing distance will hide the pixel grid. Then it don't feel like a big screen to me anymore.


regards,


Li On
 

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Quote:
All in all, the LT150 is still KING. NO other digital projector I saw does better HDTV than the LT150.
I guess the new Marantz, DWIN, and Seleco all sporting the same chip as the Sharp 9000 can all go home now....


Spero D.


[This message has been edited by Spizz (edited 10-11-2001).]
 

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I guess this is getting a bit pointless. We obviously agree to disagree.


I sit at 13.5' approx and see no pixel grid on a 100" diag. 16x9 screen. Picture is bloody huge. This DLP was the only one I saw that stopped me from buying a FP CRT. DVD viewing was my priority.


I put my money (alot for this PJ in Australia) where my mouth is. I guess I agree with Alan Gouger from AVS on this one.


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Derek
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Spizz:
I guess the new Marantz, DWIN, and Seleco all sporting the same chip as the Sharp 9000 can all go home now....
My VERY first projector is a Mit. LCD. Then I lived through 4 CRT projectors for the past 3 years.


As a long time CRT projector user, it's our fate to push the digital envelop for a better picture. Because sooner or later, we'll be forced to replace the dying CRT projector with a digital model.


regards,


Li On
 

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I saw the Sharp 9000 at CEDIA. It looked great. I think the greatest difference from the LT150 I saw was in HD material. Objects in the distance looked sharp on the 9000 while they looked blurred on the LT150. The difference might become negligible with an anamorphic lens, though.


For DVD material, I felt the pictures were reasonably equivalent on both projectors.


My personal opinion is:


o It's the wrong time to get in on the 9000. There's not enough improvement over the LT150 to justify the higher cost. As more 1280x720 projectors come out, I expect prices to come down and possibly make the switch more attractive.


o I've seen a lot of projectors over the last 12 months, and most of them look very good. Practically equivalent.

Which is why I would have to agree that the LT150 is the King in overall DLP price-performance.


o An extra 6k or so in DLP land can get you:

- More pixels that result in a slightly sharper image

- A quieter projector

- Fewer rainbows (if you see them at all)

- More inputs.


Disclaimers:


o I've never seen the LT150 and 9000 side by side. I would love to get a chance to do that and validate my thoughts.

o I do not see rainbows.


--Les
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by arrow:
For DVD material, I felt the pictures were reasonably equivalent on both projectors.
You're in the right direction. With more viewing, you'll soon find they're not even close.


Btw, when I put HD in 1080i to the Sharp 9000, the projector sync as 1080i but the aspect ratio is slightly compressed vertical. I need to select 1135i on the 9000 to get a correct ratio but the picture seems a bit overscanned.


regards,


Li On
 

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Quote:
I don't expect such simple question. Of course it's the answer you expected.
You're right, I didn't expect you to have it connected any other way. Actually, I simply asked because I noticed you mention noise in the image, and I saw this during a Seleco demo of the DM DLP with progressive scan DVD as the source, which was similar to what they showed the previous year on their XGA (HT250) DLP.


Kei Clark
 

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Hi,


I think I ought to make my comments here.


To start with, I don¡¦t see things that Li On sees. The Z9000 overall gives a better image on both HDTV and DVDs when compared to LT150.

On HDTV sources, LT150 image is less palpable and soft (I know, I know, CRT is soft when compared with higher resolution DLP, LCD and D-ILA projectors), and somehow less texture and monolithic in shades. (I hope better details and facial texture are not regarded as artifacts here)

On DVD sources, the images on LT150 is jagged and coarse in comparison, this is may due to re-scale of 720p inside LT150, and on colours, I now know what Li On¡¦s taste is : reddish ! He simply turns the colour tone to be reddish (I know reddish can bring more details to shadow, but what about the overall image ? Are we living in a cartoon world ?) The camal in chapter 2 of Fifth element is almost red, is the world on fire ? Red desert ? As a serious amateur photographer on natural scenes, I sure know what accurate color is ! CRT colour isn¡¦t like that neither. Thank God the Sharp is not like that (reddish) out of the box, otherwise I will return it the same day I got it.

The black level is about the same, as LT150 is dimmer, it obtains darker black during comparison.

I think the major difference is I am more inclined on overall picture quality, and watchable picture, while Li On concentrates more on individual bugs and potential problems and over-sight the enjoyable picture completely. Come on, no projector is perfect (yet), it is the overall picture quality which counts.

In conclusion, LT150 is incredible value for its price, but if you want more palpable and more texture in your pictures, less rainbow, accurate colour then go for the Sharp.


Regards,

Cam
 

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Cam- I was waiting for your reply back to Li-On's comments and I am glad its not all doom as gloom as one might make it seem. Glad you are enjoying the Sharp and am looking forward to the Sharp XV-Z9000.


Spero D.
 

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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and those who spent the money on a projector will defend their projector till the end http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


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Huey ;-]
 
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