[RobertWood]

After playing with it for about an hour I don't think Grant lied to us. It's most definitely a whole lot of bang for the buck.

Work is going to prevent me from spending more time with it until Friday (damn, a new toy and I can't even find time to enjoy it).

With the little time I have had with it, though, I'm very impressed. 480i is better than I was expecting (better scaler than the LP340 I had and I didn't think that was supposed to be the case). And HDTV is a whole lots better than I was expecting. Haven't seen crawlies to amount to anything and don't really have any complaint with the colors. And it has plenty of light output. Briefly fed my Radeon HTPC to it and see no problems there yet either.

Still can't get over how something this small can perform so big.


Bob Wood



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~ The Sultan of Cheap ~

 

[clopez]

What !!!!!!!!!!


Thats it? We want more of a review.

How does it compare to the Davis DL450. How is the rainbow effect. I want, and expect, a more thorough review next time http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


clopez



[This message has been edited by clopez (edited 08-07-2001).]

 

[RobertWood]

I'll do my best to oblige, Clopez. But I'm not going to be very helpful when it comes to rainbow. Of the four DLP's I've owned previously, I only saw it with one (LP340) and then only after someone pointed it out to me.


I've learned that first impressions can quickly change but so far it's performing like the Davis except without the Davis' shortcomings. But I need more time with it. I want to know if it's prone to banding, tearing, etc.


Bob


------------------

~ The Sultan of Cheap ~

 

[lmo]

I've had great first impressions with this thing, too, Bob. I also don't evidently see rainbows.


I also agree with the assessment that the lt150 is brighter than I thought it would be from what I read in here. Part of that may be because I've been operating it with the white section on. It's looked pretty good to me that way, even with interlaced DVD via s-video. Maybe those of us who aren't rainbow prone will find that leaving the white section on isn't such a bad thing.


Bob, are you using stock color settings? I found that A Bug's Life just blew me away at this setting, but that the flesh colors on darker true-life movies has tended to be a little dull and a little towards the greenish. I think it's something that will be corrected with a little tinkering.

 

[dfriend]

I don't want to usurp Bob's thread but I just got done playing around with mine for about at hour and thought I'd post my impressions vs. my ~4 month old LP350.


Right now I'm feeding my projectors with a Radeon equipped HTPC, 60 Hz refresh. WinDVD is my player of choice at the moment.


The absolute first thing I noticed was the sharpness. Why? Because my LP350 (and the first one I got which I returned) has an optics problem that makes it *impossible* to focus the entire picture. My current projector has essentially a 1 pixel wide green border around objects on the left edge of the picture. It's invisible while watching video, but is very noticeable when displaying a computer desktop. Drives me up the wall. I'm happy to say that the LT150 doesn't have this problem, nor should anyone really settle for a projector with this problem. I've sort of secretly been hoping for my LP350 bulb to blow so I can send it back again. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif I'll probably make them exchange it eventually anyway but I haven't gotten around to it yet, nor am I sure I'll get anything better anyway. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif


Rainbows: I didn't see any more or less than my LP350. For some that may be damning with faint praise but I personally didn't feel I saw that many. Nor do they bother me all that much when they show up. I didn't watch anything that I know makes me see a lot of rainbow (Gladiator for some reason does this to me), but I did check out parts of the Mummy in which I do remember seeing quite a bit of rainbow when I first got my 350. I believe that calibration counts here though... I cut down on the rainbows a lot after I calibrated my 350 for the first time. I didn't calibrate the 150 yet, but I am using an HTPC which I've tweaked a little.


Brightness: I don't really notice a difference, that is I would imagine that the brightness on the 350 is turned down to the point where it's similar to the 150. I made no adjustments to the 150. I don't think I'd want to turn it down much more though. Don't plan on watching this with any lights on or anything.


Color: Sure looks great to me. Good "punch", although of course I've calibrated nothing. I would say it's an improvement on the 350 thus far, if calibration improves it any more it will be a marvel. I had the white section of the color wheel turned off and was using gamma setting Natural 1.


"Noise", "Crawlies", "Whatever": I took this thing into work today to show some interested friends and the only disc anyone had laying around was "Jumanji" and we had to feed it with a laptop. There was noticeable noisyness or crawlies. This evening however I noticed considerably less noise in the sky areas in the opening of the Mummy than I did on my 350. This is a bit of a pleasant surprise, but I really don't want to open the can of worms on this discussion again so I won't say any more on it. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Black level: So here we go... the supposed holy grail, how does the LT150 stack up? I'd say: great! I'd also say my 350 performs admirably here as well though, so maybe folks should take my evaluation with a grain of salt. My take on black level, particularly with respect to DLPs, is that they *can* produce a fairly decent absolute black level. It's just that to acheive it for some reason you end up with no shadow detail at all. So you have to choose which one you want, inky blanks with big globs of shadow all over the screen, or greyish blacks but with my detail. In my quicky test the LT150 acheives a lower absolute black level while still maintaining detail. My quicky test is this: In the Mummy in the 3rd (? I think) chapter after the lead female character knocks down all the bookcases, she walks into a dark room lit by some torches. To the right of the archway she walks through is a patterned wall. On my 350 with the black level set where I like it, the pattern is invisible. Making it visible results in an unacceptable overall black level. On the 150 the pattern was visible. Like I said, a quicky test, but a pretty practical one that shows the real benefit of some of the tweaks available on the 150.


Other pros for the 150: Power on/off on the remote (yeah!), lots of knobs for tweaking, infrared sensor in front and behind, fan exhaust to the side so you can butt it up against the back wall of a room (well, except the cords plug into the back), CompactFlash slot is cool but I doubt I'll use it.


Cons: the only one I can think of is fan noise, which I consider to be a fixable problem and one I much rather have than something like my aforementioned optics problem with the 350 that I can't do anything about. The shorter throw/fixed zoom is a bit of a problem for me but I'll figure something out for that too. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Stuff I haven't considered or don't care about: onboard scaler, HDTV.


All in all it's a definite improvement on the 350 as far as I'm concerned. I payed just under $4K for my 350 in March, even at $3K the 150 raises the bar considerably for what one should expect from a projector. For $1700 it's insane and I'm wishing I would have bought a couple more to use or give/sell to family members. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

[ckolchak]

just curious what kind/size screen you folks are using.


also:

-what are your settings for brightness /contrast

-how far back do you sit

-whats your manufacture date

-is screendoor noticeable to you


thanks

 

[Steve Dodds]

I think between us Robert and I have seen most of the contenders for not much money. Certainly the LT150 is all Grant (initial hero) and others have said.


The only DLP I've seen that comes close is a Thumpered UP1100 or clone. Price is about the same as a non-Dell and you get a zoom. However, it is not as bright, and much bigger and noisier.


The LT150 blacks are better, the Thumpered UP1100 has more accurate colors.


Steve


------------------
Steve's Stuff

 

[rcheng]

Quote:

Originally posted by ckolchak: just curious what kind/size screen you folks are using. also: -what are your settings for brightness /contrast -how far back do you sit -whats your manufacture date -is screendoor noticeable to you thanks

I am using a 60x80 high power dalite pull down screen. Brightness set at 45, contrast at 65. Sit at 2.5 x screen width, screendoor noticeable at 10'. Manufacture date is Jan 2001.

 

[Grant Smyth]

Robert,


No, I didn't lie to you - at least not intentionally. My third LT150 (Dell variety) is at customs and I should have it tomorrow. Presently I have one hooked into my HTPC and the other into one of my DVD players. My Panamorph should arrive soon (am I being optimistic?) and will go in front of one projector. I am seriously thinking of ordering an ISCO II for the other (shootout city here we come!) and the third may see HDTV! Who needs an external switcher?


Just some quick comments on differences I am seeing between Proscan DVD player vs. HTPC - I am definitely seeing some pixelization (here and there) with the RP91. From the same distance (about 15 to 16 feet) on my 92 inch wide screen the HTPC is liquid smooth and overall has less (noticeably less) artifacts. I have played with the myriad settings on the RP91, but the HTPC is better and should be since it cost me 5 times what I paid for the RP91 (even my wife commented about the pixelization) - we have become so spoiled with the HTPC! Guests didn't notice the problem at all and thought I was having some sort of mental breakdown. Moral of the story - If you're happy with what you have don't look at anything else - period!


If you ordered the Dell LT150, but don't have much money leftover, don't despair. For DVD playback do this - buy blackout (blockout) material from a fabric shop, the lighter shade, and mount it on your own frame and border it with black material (you'll find something cheap) and buy a used Toshiba 5109 or other unwanted progressive scan DVD player (should be really cheap!). Click off the "white segment", use natural 1 or 2 for your gamma settings, increase contrast or brightness or both, only a little, depending on the print and if you're not prone to rainbow you will have an amazing image for the money - no you'll just have an amazing image! How do I know? Been there done that.


Cheers,


Grant

 

[arrow]

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Dodds: The LT150 blacks are better

Speaking of which...


I was testing the stacked LT150s yesterday and ran the VE montage of images a bunch of times. The video of the boy coming up the escalator with the black suspenders is a terrific example of the black levels on this projector. They are amazingly deep for a DLP and of course the high contrast helps accentuate the difference between light and dark.


Hope others are as successful and as delighted.


--Les

 

[kstirman]

I received my LT150 on Monday. Didn't have time to set it up until yesterday.


This is my first projector. Until now I have lived with a very good 20" Sony TV.


I knew the weight, I knew the dimensions, I had even seen pictures, but to finally unpack and set up this projector in its current makeshift room . . . . well, its really shocking how small it is. I kept handling it with one hand, then scolding myself for being careless.


Didn't know the case was Magnesium, but it does feel like a tennis racket I once used many years ago.


I am projecting onto the wall of a closet (ceiling white is the color). This room is still not finished, but the recessed wall makes for a quasi theater.


I reached on the shelf and grabbed a DVD. It happened to be Austin Powers. I played it off my laptop with WinDVD. The colors in this movie are almost strident. The pink bathing cap that Austin wears in the opening credits was almost radio active.


I don't know if this qualifies as a good transfer, but I watched the whole movie. I was dead tired too, so it must have been quite engaging.


I didn't do any experimenting - just plug and play. My only comment was that things seemed a little yellowish. Then I turned on the lights, and low and behold the room is painted a pastel yellow. I can definetly see how a room with no light and a room with no light and dark walls can be two very different experiences.


Thanks to all for making this a possiblity. I hope to be able to contribute in the near future as my home theater comes together. I've been an audiophile for a long time, and this is the most fun I've had in many, many years.


Now, back to City Hall and fighting the Historical Commission to let us keep the addition that's three weeks from completion. Our first baby should be arriving next week, and they want us to tear the whole thing down.


Kelly

 

[videohot]

I got mine day before yesterday and let me tell you I AM IMPRESSED!


Granted it doesn't look as smooth as the G1000 D-ILA and still looks more like TV to me than the D-ILA's FILM look but Jezzz....it looks DAMN good!


I have to ignore the "sometimes rainbows" but for less than $1800 bucks I couldn't buy a RPTV I'd be satisfied with. Besides, packing a 50" RPTV in a carryon bag is difficult.


Its like finding a Audi TT for $17,000. You can drive it for a few years and maybe sell it for what you paid for it.


Larry


------------------

G15 D-ILA

Lexicon MC1 7.1 system

Radeon Based HTPC

NHT, velodyne & bag end speaker systems

 

[ckolchak]

Quote:

Originally posted by videohot: ... I have to ignore the "sometimes rainbows" but for less than $1800 bucks I couldn't buy a RPTV I'd be satisfied with. Besides, packing a 50" RPTV in a carryon bag is difficult. ... Larry

thats this pj in a nutshell.

i had some friends over after work and after a couple pitchers of Labatts ,i think they were impressed. i told them it should get better than this once i ditch the s-video. i don't think they really minded the 'inferior' PQ.

the only thing i lost points on was the fact that i spent $2k for a 'movie' projector, but i'm too cheap to get a cellular phone.

oh well...

 

[Grant Smyth]

Ckolchak,


I think the general concenus on this forum is that if you switch to a progressive source (proscan DVD player) with just about any DLP from an interlaced source (s-video) you will notice less rainbow. When comparing the LP350 and LT150 I did exactly this and both my guests noticed a huge difference in ranbow frequency - one guest didn't notice any more rainbows once my HTPC became the source!


I have seen rainbows (while watching the screen) about 4 times and so fleeting that it could have been my imagination, and only when using the proscan DVD player - never with my HTPC. I don't look for them - well sometimes I have, but I am trying not to.


When I first saw this little wolf in sheep's clothing I was startled! For me, this little thing (when set up properly) challenged my belief that you generally get what you pay for - this was a presentation projector for Pete's Sake! Overall it bested my expensive HT projector and for a nano second I resented this fact! Me being me, I couldn't buy one (and when opportunity presented itself - two then three) fast enough.


Cheers,


Grant

 

[3090]

kstirman,


I'm in the Northeast off the Oxford Circle. If at all possible, could we arrange a demo once everything is settled and your comfortable with the settings? Also, how do you plan to mask your screen and what's the noise level like? These are important issues for me especially the noise factor.


Thanks,

Earl

 

[kstirman]

Earl,


I'm happy to let you see the image, but it may be 2 - 3 months before its ready.


Kelly

 

[3090]

Kelly,


That's cool. But in the meantime, what do you do about the fan noise and halo? The biggest thing for me is to minimize any noise and a simple masking system. If you want, you can email me and I'll give you my home number.


Thanks,

Earl

 

[RobertWood]

I just returned from a two day trip and tonight I hope to find time to get back on my 150.


Let me emphasize one thing that to me makes all the difference in the world when using this or any other digital projector. Try to get the light halo and/or letterbox bars off the screen. When only the image is framed on the screen it is always a whole lot more watchable to me. The perceived black level improves significantly.

It requires some ingenuity to accomplish this but if you can devise a method to do so I think you'll be pleased at the result. If you're using a fixed screen it will of course require removable masking which can be a pain in the butt.

If, on the other hand, you're using a pull-down and table mount (like me) it's not as difficult. I just adjust the screen size to the desired aspect ratio. And then tilt my table mounted projector to raise or lower the center of the image. The LT150's digital keystone correction will come in very handy here.

But I'm working on a way to also be able to conveniently adjust the height of my pull down screen. That way I'll always be able to fully frame either a 16:9 or 2.35:1 image without a need to adjust the projector's tilt angle (very beneficial with a ceiling mounted projector).


Bob


------------------

~ The Sultan of Cheap ~





[This message has been edited by RobertWood (edited 08-09-2001).]

 

[smyth22]

I am puzzling over the same problem. I am currently looking at ways of creating moveable drapes that I can easily adjust from 1:66 to 1:85 to 2:35 etc assuming a constant screen width. I would be mightly grateful if you keep us informed of any breakthroughs. So far I have only a choice of kludges - some really bad, some not very good.

 

[tlastrange]

Others have posted this but here is a cool masking system if you could find the motors (or equivalents).
http://www.kathiejohnson.com/masking.html


------------------

Tom L.

NEC LT150 FAQ

My stuff, pictures, HTPC, and screen tests