[Yahoo]

I just wanted to get more clarification on the above...before I start building an HTPC.


First off, I remember reading somewhere a member on the forum saying RP91 is good enough to replace his HTPC...


Then...I remember Grant and Frode saying that HTPC looks better than a progressive player for film-based DVD's.


Now...the question is...does the picture of RP91 rival that of HTPC on an LT150...? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


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- Balance Between

- Quality & Price!

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Editor of the AVS Skyworth FAQ and Official Panasonic RP91 Firmware Upgrade Request from OWNERS pages.

 

[Frode]

Easy answer - not a chance. The reason for this is that you can see (mild) scaling artifacts with a progressive player connected to the LT150, while you won't with a HTPC.


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/frode

 

[Yahoo]

Ok this "mild" artifact is due to reliance on the LT150's internal scaling, correct?


So what is in essence said is that by using HTPC we can operate the LT150 at the maximum resolution 1024x768 through software-based scaling without resorting to other compromises like operating in native mode or using external scalers with a DVD player...correct? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


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- Balance Between

- Quality & Price!

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Editor of the AVS Skyworth FAQ and Official Panasonic RP91 Firmware Upgrade Request from OWNERS pages.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Thanks Grant - be careful what you say I may take you up on your offer!


I have a PII-450 with 128 MB of RAM. My current sound & video cards would have to be upgraded to become a HTPC. I would hate to loose the audio performance of the RP91. I can hear a significant difference between it and my Yamaha 2095 receiver.


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Every man is my superior, in that I may learn from him.

 

[Yahoo]

The thought of having an HTPC in the movie room is not all that entertaining given the possible additional fan noise and keyboard, mouse, to contend with.


However, if someone can spec. me out a good HTPC that will play just about anything audio via optical outs (I intend to play MP3's from the HTPC) I just might go for it.... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


P.S. I tried to hook up my PC to the receiver before to play MP3 via standard RCA Analog out and the sound was riddled with hum and hiss.


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- Balance Between

- Quality & Price!

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Editor of the AVS Skyworth FAQ and Official Panasonic RP91 Firmware Upgrade Request from OWNERS pages.



[This message has been edited by Yahoo (edited 07-30-2001).]

 

[Frode]

Lou,


I'm quite familiar with the Skyworth from using it on a variety of displays. From CRT monitor to CRT projector to LCD projector to interlaced display. I'm also very familiar with my source material and know what it's supposed to look like on the Skyworth. I couldn't tell there was a difference from the Skyworth to the HTPC right away, but once I started switching back and forth and recognizing what to look for it became more and more apparent. Using the component progressive input on the LT150 gives you scaling artifacts such as aliasing along edges and pixellation. This is definetly the scaler at work, and not the player.


I'm not saying it looks very bad - just that if you start doing critical viewing there will be a noticeable difference. Most ordinary people wouldn't know what to look for and so would think the picture excellent, but there is an extra edge to be gained by using a HTPC compared to standalone progressive DVD. It's like doing double blind listening tests on audio equipment. In the beginning unless you're really good (I'm not) then hearing the difference may not be immediately obvious. Once you start getting used to it though you can hear the difference in the two sound systems in how details are treated, bass, spatial feeling, faithful source reproduction etc. As you get more and more used to it and relax more then the difference between the two systems can be night and day. The same thing goes for video. If you start looking for flaws you'll find them provided there is a difference.


Yahoo,


You're worried about HTPC noise when the LT150 is loud enough to overpower almost any HTPC except a full blown server? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


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/frode

 

[Yahoo]

Quote:

Originally posted by Frode: You're worried about HTPC noise when the LT150 is loud enough to overpower almost any HTPC except a full blown server? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Yes Frode, I believe noise is additive so the noise levels add up.... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif


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- Balance Between

- Quality & Price!

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Editor of the AVS Skyworth FAQ and Official Panasonic RP91 Firmware Upgrade Request from OWNERS pages.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Frode thanks for the concise explanation!


Is it the flexibility of scaling with a HTPC that allows for the picture improvement?


What about audio - is there any caveats as far as passing a signal from your PC to a receiver? ie do you loose anything? Or is it better?


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Every man is my superior, in that I may learn from him.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Frode - you're making that statement based on what you observed with the Skyworth. Do you feel your assessment would be the same regardless of what progressive scan DVD player is used? Or have you seen other players?




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Every man is my superior, in that I may learn from him.

 

[Grant Smyth]

I have two progressive scan DVD players - the Toshiba 5109 and the Panasonic RP91. The image produced by these two players with the LT150 is very good and you will be pleased! It is only when you are exposed to the image from a good dedicated HTPC for a period of time will you notice the differences. The HTPC renders an improvement in image quality for every projector I have tried mine with - without exception. Its just the way it is!


This isn't something to fret over! You can look forward to upgrading at some point. Maybe the improvement won't be worth it for you. You need to see the difference for yourself. For those close by and are interested in a test drive, email me.


Cheers,


Grant

 

[jamin]

Frode,


I have a question about :


"Using the component progressive input on the LT150 gives you scaling artifacts such as aliasing along edges and pixellation."


I just want to make sure I have it right - does this mean

that your experience is the PJ does NOT suffer the same

level of artifacts by utilizing the RGB input?


thank you -


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plug in to play

 

[Frode]

Yahoo,


Just a small joke really. Personally I can hardly hear my HTPC over the LT150. Yes noise is additive, but only in a "I hear more noise" type. The loudness is I believe always determined by the noise source with the most dB and the distance to the source. In this case the LT150 (unless you're one of those insane overclockers that believe a CPU fan has to be rated at least 45dB before it can properly cool your processor) being the worst. The characteristic sound of the color wheel is also worse than what you'd get from a normal HTPC.


PCs can be relatively quiet by careful choice of quiet hard drives and fans. If necessary the fans can be speed modified. Both harddrives and fans can also be mounted in order to minimize vibration noise. You can also add sound dampening material to your case. I've heard several success stories of people using DynaMat for instance.


Really a stock pc is relatively quiet compared to the LT150 and I'd worry more about building a hushbox for that before you tackle the HTPC. If you're using floor mounting you might consider building a combined hushbox for the projector and the HTPC. I'll be modifiying an AV rack for this purpose.


Lou,


The scaling algorithm used by the software players on the HTPC is superior to the one used internally in the LT150 hardware.


As for audio. If you just use the digital out of your HTPC to pass the DD/DTS stream to the reciever they should arrive unmolested. There are some who claim that the ATI player delivers better DD out, but personally I'm one of those people that believe that digital is digital. Especially since AC3/DTS is just passed straight out and not modified in any way.


What you might notice a difference is for other sources such as CD audio and other regular audio applications where the audio is decoded/processed before being sent to the digital audio outs. If that's important to you check the HTPC forum for a recommended sound card with low noise etc. If you're going to be using the analog outs then that goes double.


jamin,


Sorry if I wasn't clear. What I really meant was that the internal scaling of the LT150 is not as good as the scaling of a HTPC. If you output 640x480 from the HTPC for instance you'd run into the same scaling artifacts as if you had a progressive player connected since the LT150 has to do the scaling internally to its native resolution of 1024x768. This scaling is independent of what connection you use - only the input resolution matters.


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/frode

 

[jamin]

Frode,


Quite clear, thank you. Actually your answer ties in with a

question I want to post over on the scaler forum. Hope to formulate the silly thing and start a thread soon.


later


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plug in to play