[med]



Well after watching the mad frenzy (and thinking it was a great thing to see so many get such a good deal) I am now seeing people selling off their LT150s for a profit (I see one guy potentially selling 7!). Maybe I have lived in Canada too long, but this just seems kinda sleazy to me. Free market, etc etc... but I guess I thought people would try to spread the gospel and get more entry level FP owners as opposed to flipping them for a few hundred bucks. Perhaps I am idealistic... but it kinda taints my favourite place on the whole www (you avs forum owners should be proud of this place... even with my whine... it is a beautiful thing you have here).


med.

 

[piney]

It's just another side of the same coin. The spectrum of altruistic to opportunistic is present everywhere. But in a highly capitalistic and materialistic society, the dirty underwear shows up more frequently. It just goes to show that too much of a good thing is not always for the best, but it's not easy to turn back either.


Chi

 

[Jim Tittle]

I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with people making a profit on these projectors over at E-Bay. However, it is certainly not somethig to be proud of either. So those of you who are selling 3 or 4 of these things to the unsuspecting masses at E-Bay, don't be surprised if the rest of us here are not fighting to be first in line to congratulate you on your your fine business sense.

 

[JimmyDaves]

Some of us on the forum (me) found out about the LT150 sale long after the Dell discount prices were over, so I can understand why there would be a market for them on Ebay.


(Personally, I would rather spend the extra money on the new Sharp or Sony projectors coming out in the next month or two, but wouldn't mind owning the LT150 until I made a decision and had a chance to scope out the other two projectors)


Thanks.

 

[Jonmx]

Yes you are too idealistic. These people are still selling these units cheaper than anyone else is. Many many places are still selling the LT150 for well over $3000. The only thing that may be a bit tacky is using this forum to sell the product. This forum allows for free information flow even about items that may not be in their best interests. But that is why this is by far the best and most active AV forum anywhere. I wouldn't fault AVSforum though if they pulled threads selling unopened LT150s for profit.

 

[Jim Ferguson]

I'm still not sure why I ordered the LT150, unless it was just a case of mass hysteria. I already have a very nice CRT-based setup that (I'm guessing http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif ) will look a lot better than the LT150. I figured I could use it for light-duty in another room or something.


However I have a friend who is into HT, but not fanatical about it. He's currently using a 32" direct view TV. Because of the great deal, he is probably going to take the LT150 off my hands (pending a test for rainbow sensitivity). I wouldn't think of trying to profit from this. I'm just glad to see another person have a better HT experience than they would get by running down to Circuit City and picking up a generic "big screen TV"...

 

[rickforrest]

When this deal was first posted here, plenty of forum members were wringing their hands with statements like


"Oh, what should I do? This sounds too good to be true."

"Would I get a warranty with this?"

"It wouldn't be ethical of me to buy this projector if it's a pricing mistake."


and so on. These members sat on the sidelines for several days before buying, and some of them didn't buy at all.


I *didn't* sit on the sidelines. I bought 2. I took the gamble. I put my credit card down. I hassled with Dell customer service for a total of 8 hours over the course of 10 days, trying to get a straight answer out of them (I was always polite, by the way).


When I go to sell the projector, there will be another set of hassles - shipping, payment, buying a box and peanuts to double-box the thing, the risk of loss during shipment and having to file an insurance claim. All stressful.


Another forum member who also bought, had his credit card overcharged. Now he has to hassle with Dell to try and get that fixed.


What in the world is wrong with making a few hundred bucks for my trouble?


Now, we have forum members who are willing and very happy to pay more than 1775 (which is what I paid for mine). They know they're getting a great deal, even at a price of just over 2000. Why should those buyers get a projector handed to them at my "cost"? My point is that the "cost" of this projector to me is higher than $1775.


(edited for a typo)




[This message has been edited by rickforrest (edited 08-02-2001).]

 

[lmo]

I agree completely. What is it that people expect? If they wanted to get in on the Dell deal, they could have. If they wanted to order multiple units, they could have done that as well. People who ordered multiple units run considerable business risks: getting stuck with worthless inventory if demand drys up, dealing with customers, transaction costs, etc. -- the same risks *every business* runs when buying at dealer cost and reselling with a small margin. That's exactly what Dell did - they bought a lot of these at a great price and then resold them (and I'm sure it was at a profit, despite what has been said). The people who are reselling these units (myself included) should be lauded for providing a service. We were willing to accept the risk that some people were unwilling to take (or unable, because they were overseas). There is a premium on taking that risk - those who want to purchase an LT150 for under $2,500 and less than any current retailer price should do so. Those who don't should realize that this is the nature of business and the competition IS making these units available to a broad number of people for less than they would otherwise pay. Had pioneers not taken the risk of buying these units, Dell would have sold less at the reduced price it initially offered, and these great projectors would not be available for under $2,500 anymore.


[This message has been edited by lmo (edited 08-02-2001).]

 

[Randall Morton]

I agree that these people should be able to sell for whatever the market will bear. They took a risk. At the time they bought the projectors there was no guarantee that Dell would not be selling for $1700 or less from now on. If the price fell to $1500 they would have lost money, it was a gamble and now it is paying off. Anyone reading the forum had the chance. As far as I can tell these people did not take any projectors out of the hands of potential buyers, they only added more in. The last one I saw on e-bay sold for $2200 I think which is still a great deal. Must be sour grapes for the ones who missed the Dell deal.

 

[Todd Schuitema]

AMEN! It is called business. The owners of this forum even do it...Whoa! Big suprise to some? Do you think any dealer sells at cost just so he can see a happy smile on the customers face? Nope, didn't think so. The only people I see complaining are the "Woulda', Coulda', Shoulda'" crowd.

 

[JoeFloyd]

If people want to profit from selling their projectors, that's 100% fine by me. What I would hope is that those who were fortunate enough to get more than one projector would offer to sell to other forum members first. You won't get the same profit selling here, but you will be helping others achieve a home theater experience at a reduced cost. Posting links to eBay auctions doesn't really offer the AVScience community anything other than another eBay auction.


In fact, a recent thread in the HDTV Recorders forum discussed posting for sale type posts in other forums and the policy of the AVSForum is to not allow for sale posts in any forum other than Classified. The moderators will crack down on these type posts if they become too common.

 

[JoseQ]

I also agree completely with selling their projectors. It was a great deal and it called for such actions. I'm still pondering the idea of selling mine on eBay or wherever, but my main interest is upgrading and getting a bigger/better projector while passing on the savings to another person. It would still be below anything anybody can find on the web, so who's to complain?


It's a win-win situation for both the Dell buyers, and the eBay buyers. They're both getting a great deal.


JoseQ


------------------
http://www.speedhost.com
a href= http://www.emuviews.com

 

[JSC]

"As far as I can tell these people did not take any projectors out of the hands of potential buyers, they only added more in."


Has everyone here who ordered one at ~$1700 received one? This is the issue I have with gloating over the '8' or so some have ordered and received to resell. I have NO problem with people taking advantage of information to make a profit. To throw it back into the faces of forum members who haven't benefited from the information here is insensitive and just plain mean. Take it somewhere else.


Jeff

 

[leckian]

To those of you reselling these projectors you should be clear with the buyers there is no warranty. The warranty is valid to the original purchaser and does not follow the machine when resold. If you don't reveal this to your buyer then you may very well have earned some of the negative comments that have been offered.

 

[mannyqg]

Hi,


I agree with Rick. there are a lot of hassles and risks in buying and selling. And so who seem to be upright and do all things correct expect you to sell it at cost to somebody who is just waiting there for you to hand in a good deal. Anybody had a chance to buy up to July 23 and 24. And the sellers are not forcing anybody to buy anyway with prices still way down retailers are offering. I offered one for $1980, is this unreasonable?


Manny

 

[Randall Morton]

Jeff,

My understanding is that Dell is honoring all sales through a certain time. People who ordered several only increased the total number of projectors sold. They may have delayed some people getting theirs but they did not prevent anyone from taking advantage of the Dell deal. I bought one. Would you risk buying eight projectors at $1700 today? I wouldn't, but if I did I would expect to make some profit. This forum is a great place, and if I were selling mine I would offer it here first, but I wouldn't give it away.

 

[JSC]

Randall,

If they will honor the price through a certain time/date, then those who ordered should get them, eventually. This is my understanding as well.


In the meantime, however, many around here are frustrated and annoyed that they haven't received their one, let alone 8.


/silly analogy mode

Imagine starving in line at a pretzel stand. The guy ahead of you buys the last 8 pretzels. They'll get more after awhile, but there you wait, hungry. In the distance, you see the guy trying to sell 'your' pretzel down the street...

/silly analogy mode off

 

[Mark Hunter]

/silly analogy continued...

...And if you're really that hungry, forget the bare Pretzel stand. Go find that guy down the street with 'your' pretzel and work out a deal.

/silly analogy end.

 

[Wireless]

Med,Jeff,


You're going to get two different responses to this question. There are basically two types of people who post on this forum. Those with a pure love of home theater, who wouldn't dream of mixing business with their hobby, and those that love it and want to eventually be able to make some money, either through a product or selling in the classifieds/ebay. Better than 9 to 5 and allows them to continue to pursue a hobby they might otherwise not be able. I wish more people had gotten a chance to buy the 150 at 1700.


------------------

John
My HT Picts

 

[Jim Tittle]

Of course it is ok for people to make a few hundred bucks selling their projector. I think what some people object to are the posts from people who felt they had to announce to the forum they had bought 8 and were now making a killing on e-bay. Those people just have to understand that most home theater enthusiasts would never buy large numbers of some product with the sole purpose of making a profit from their fellow enthusiasts.


To me there is no comparison between the person who buys a projector and decides he doesn't want it and then decides to sell, and the person who buys six and starts hawking them on the open market. The first happens all the time, but the last just seems a little unseemly.


and please spare us the analogy of AV dealers. No one has a problem with reputable AV dealers making a living with their business. However, what kind of service are you LT150 re-sellers offering? There is a huge difference between buying from AV Science or another business and some guy who decided to max out his credit card on LT150s with the hope of an easy profit. In fact, you ersatz projector dealers are abusing the hospitality of our hosts. Alan and co. have been very gracious about this whole thing, but it really is too much that people who have gone into the LT150 business are using the AVS forum to take sales away from AVS.


Also, please spare us the "sour grapes" argument. I did not try to buy an LT150 and I don't want an LT150 (the no zoom is a deal killer for me). I simply hate to see the forum I enjoy so much turn into a swap meet.


So LT150 re-sellers, please do us all a favor: take it outside. This is not a microeconomics seminar, and we really don't want to hear about your speculation in the projector market.


[This message has been edited by Jim Tittle (edited 08-02-2001).]