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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It came to me in my sleep. I got up early and sluggishly made my way to my Home Theatre trying not to trip over something. Once there I quickly and deliberately unplugged one of my numereous LT150s, waited a few seconds and plugged it in again and started it up. No problem, within a few seconds a dark blue (purplish) colour appeared on the screen - this is as it should be.


Why all the fuss? Well, two of my units have exhibited what I will call "washout" when turned on and I have had to turn them off and then restart them - they always work O.K. the second time. A number of other LT150 owners have complained about this as well. My theory is that when disconnnected and then reconnected the LT150 goes through a startup procedure and is then ready to go. If left plugged in for long periods of time then it might, just might, miss something when turned on - just a thought. If you experience this problem try unplugging the projector and then reconnecting it. I am now leaving my units unplugged I will update you as I gain more experience with this.


Creating an illusion - Some of you are probably sceptical about my insistence about creating an illusion in your home theatre. Don't believe me, then take a look at Robert's thread concerning movie stars and makeup - the before and after images speak volumes. You can simulate these dramatic improvements in your home theatre by calibrating your room!!! Try watching your room the next time you put a movie on. You will probably notice that IT'S ALIVE, IT'S ALIVE! All kinds of light bouncing off your walls, floor, ceiling? This isn't helping things - this light is washing out your blacks and effecting your contrast etc. Do something about it!


LT150 and the Toshiba 5109 DVD player - I respect the guys over on the DVD section, however, the lowly rated Toshiba in "enhanced" black mode combined with the LT150 and Hipower screen produces an image that is giving my HTPC fits! This is a great combination and my PR91 has now been relegated to DVD-A. Try this very inexpensive combination - best bang for the buck I have ever seen (no pun intended).


Paint it Black - I put on Lost in Space in the wee hours of the morning and the first thing I noticed was how good the blacks looked in the startup menu - through the porthole. Try the opening space shots and how about Penny's outfit in the early chapters - her jacket and boots blended with my black masking. I also checked displaymate (on my HTPC) and on the colour codes containing black and black borders around each colour the blacks look great - not perfect, but very, very good. I also remember how impressed I was with the black this projector could produce when I was using the GeForce 2 video card and would minimize the image so I could change settings - the black border around the image was very, very impressive. If you are not obtaining good "blacks" then there is something wrong! Try a different screen, mask it and control your reflected light.


Just some early morning thoughts.


Cheers,


Grant
 

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Hi Grant.


How many 150s do you have now?!?


I always unplug my 150 and put it back in it's case. Hopefully this will cut down on dust contamination over time.


In regards to the RP91 - what settings are you using?

Have you tried the following? Using the Actions button - in the first tab set the following:


display to 16:9

display type to LCD

black level to darker.


For each DVD use the U video settings. Under U4 set the Transfer Mode to Auto2.


With these settings I am getting an excellent picture with great blacks.


Your posts about using Natural1 for animation and Natural2 for movies holds fairly well. I definitely find Natural2 the best choice for darker pictures like Dark City, Blade, and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.


I am loving this little projector - Happy viewing!




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Are the settings maintained when power is disconnected?


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John
My HT Picts
 

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Are you saying the Toshiba is the equal of a Radeon-based HTPC?


I've been struggling to figure out how to hook up everything I want to the LT150 with a 16x9 screen without sacrifices in picture quality. One alternative I rejected due to picture quality concerns was to get a Dish 6000 and prog. scan DVD player and route both through a Yamaha receiver that allows multiple component inputs. I think this would have been the easiest way to handle both DVD and DSS, but I went to a shootout where my LT150 was briefly hooked up to a HTPC, and it put my JVC prog. scan player to shame, especially with non-anamorphic discs.


So I decided to go the HTPC route. I'm going to try the 1024x548 settings described in another post in order to fit a desktop on a 16x9 screen, but I'm not sure how to handle an incoming Dish 6000 signal (I may go for a non-HD Dish). I'm wondering if I should have stuck with a non-HTPC setup.


Grant, have you A/B'd your Radeon and Toshiba configurations? Any thoughts on this?
 

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Like Grant I have both the RP91 and 5109 and have used them both with my LT150. However in the limited A/B comparison that I have done I would give the RP91 the edge. Grant has probably spent much more time comparing these prog scan players than I have so take this with a big grain of salt. I plan to do a more extensive comparison this weekend. For me, the chroma bug and the flickering reds of the 5109 is the main problem. Toy Story is the often cited case but there are several others. For example, if you have Super Speedway, it is very noticeable in the scene (Chapter 10 maybe?) where two safety officials are in a silver safety truck by the racetrack. The word SAFETY is painted in red on the back of the truck. The 5109 chroma/flicker is so extreme in this case that you see the letters moving!! Not so with the RP91. If you are not bothered by the chroma bug then this will not be a problem. The 5109 overall produces a fine picture (I used mine with a Panny 34WX50 prior to the LT150). But, as I said, I plan on doing a more careful comparison.
 

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I got the washed out screen the first time I fired up the projector, but it hasn't returned since. Thought I almost made the wrong descision.


Glad to hear the results of the 5109. I've been sweating over replacing my Tosh, but it looks like it'll be a keeper for now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I am certainly not saying that the 5109 doesn't have a chroma bug problem, but it must be subtle or it would be jumping all over me. Take a look at the photo that Tom posted for me on a thread entitled To Save One Thousand Words - the one with Sly Stallone and the red flowers behind him. Neither I nor my digital camera see this problem. What I will have to do is dig my camera out and go to Toy Story II and take some pictures and post them or email them to those interested. Now that I think of it there are some scenes in the opening chapters of Lost in Space with some solid reds that I watched early this morining - didn't see a trace of the bug on those red consoles (when the Professor is introduced to the young Major) and again when Penny and her brother are together upstairs in his room - there is a red ball (deep red) in the room - no trace here either!


Seems to me we need to judge for ourselves and decide what we can tolerate or can't tolerate.


Cheers,


Grant
 

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j,

Or is it albert? Anyway this chroma bug thing really bugs me too. I'm not sure I've ever seen it and I have one of the worst players for displaying it. I got out Super Speedway and hooked up the LT150 to my HTPC using WinDVD this time. I looked for the scene you mentioned and I think it was at the end of chapter 13. Guess what? My WinDVD has the dreaded Chroma bug. I finally saw what I've been trying to find all this time. I definetly saw it on the word SAFETY. I looked for it elsewhere in this movie and could not find it. There are an awful lot of deep bright reds in Super Speedway and I couldn't find any more elsewhere. I did see some combing around the same chapter area on the drawers of the toolboxes. I ran the same scenes with my Pioneer 38a and I again saw the Chroma bug in the same place and also the combing. Again, I would have trouble picking whether the DVD player or the HTPC was better.


Grant, If you have Super Speedway would you look and see if you can find the Chroma Bug on the word SAFETY as described above with your AVS HTPC.


I don't doubt the bug exists, but I think it is blown way out of proportion. Maybe if I ever actually saw it I would start seeing it all the time and I would really be bugged.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Nice pun Randy. Take a look at the photo I took of Tommy Lee Jones flying the airplane (To Save One Thousand Words). The plane is red - the edges look crisp to me. The 5109 was the player I used for this photo. I am going to be taking a lot more photos, now I am really interested.


Cheers,


Grant
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I think I'll trust me dreams more - I am now two for two - successful ignitions after unplugging!


Lou, why not use the thin lining the projector came in as your dust cover? I will retest the RP91, again, and double check my settings as per your instructions. Mine was set up as you suggested except for the LCD part, might have it on CRT (naturally there is no DLP setting). The RP91 produces a great image, it's just the the 5109 seems a step ahead, at least for now.


I am not saying that the 5109 is 100% as good as my HTPC, however, if someone borrowed my HTPC for a couple of weeks it wouldn't particularly bother me not to have it. For me the differences are subtle - the HTPC has a little more depth, might be a little smoother. The most 3D looking image I have seen has been with my HTPC, but the 5109 isn't far behind. Don't forget I am mostly watching anamorphic DVDs and not watching the extras. I have watched The Rock (exceptional transfer IMHO for a non-anamorphic DVD) and it looks very, very good with the 5109. I really need a gamma control with my HTPC and I don't have it using WinDVD - I am a bit frustrated about this. Tried Fight Club (5109) and the opening scene where Norton has the gun stuck in his mounth - the sweat on his forehead and mole on the right side by his mouth are clearly visible - very "crisp" image.


I am beginning to think that the scaler in the projector is actually quite good - the DVD player makes a big difference. Those who can't or won't use a HTPC try some different DVD players - I bet you find one that you'll be happy with!


The suggestoins I make are only that - try and check these things out for yourself. Your expectations are bound to be somewhat different from mine.


Cheers,


Grant
 

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Grant, it's good (in a way) to know that I'm not the only one that is having the bright washed out color problem that I described early in my posts. I rather live with that than having exchanged the otherwise perfect LT150 I have with one that might have a dead pixel.


Most every DVD player have adjustments for enhanced black level. However, I must say that I do like my ex-Toshiba's enhanced black more than the Panasonics. When I first got the RP91 I posted about not being able to get blacker-than-black on the pluge test, and the picture did seem unusually "bright" on the RP91, but I am used to it now.


Personally I would not want to live with a chroma bugged player because RED is heavily used in most horror/thriller/fantasy films and has a strong role in the human psyche. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


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- Balance Between

- Quality & Price!

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Editor of the AVS Skyworth FAQ and Official Panasonic RP91 Firmware Upgrade Request from OWNERS pages.
 

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Randall,


Thanks for the correction. You are quite right, the scene is at the end of Chapter 13 (not 10). What you saw with WinDVD is interesting since WinDVD should not exhibit the chroma bug. Maybe something else is happening here. Anyone have any ideas? I will check again this weekend (WinDVD, 5109, and RP91) and make sure.


Grant,


Checked your photos and, as you said, the reds are rock solid. Certainly strong evidence that a prog scan player (the 5109 in this case) and the LT150 work well together. I do not have the DVD with Tommy Lee Jones but I do have Gladiator. Will check it out this weekend. By the way, I agree with you, we need to judge for ourselves.
 

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Can someone please give me "One" example of where to see the chroma bug in a real movie(not cartoon). I've been searching for the elusive bug for quite some time now. I know there must be dozens of easily seen examples because everyone is making such a big deal over it.
 

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Fifth Element and North by Northwest are "two" often cited examples of "real movies" on DVD that exhibit the bug. I do not remember the scenes but I think there are examples in the Munsil/Spears Secrets of HT article on the bug. It could be you are not susceptible to the bug.
 
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