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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Thanks to this and other excellent sources I settled on a NEC 240k for my first front projector. After viewing a DLP projector for about five minutes I figured I was immune to rainbows and so purchased low at an online shop that didn't offer returns.


Big big big mistake. I recieved the projector and was immediately floored by the smooth, natural looking image. The colors seemed perfect and I never thought LOTR could look so good.


The Rainbows came.


I wasn't looking for them, they just showed up. Within about ten minutes they were everywhere.


OK, no big deal. Gotta sacrifice a little for the money I spent.


The headaches and nausea hit. After the movie I felt like I had just gotten off a fair ride and my eyes hurt. Uh oh. Maybe it has something to do with my proffession of graphic design and nigh constant state of eye strain, but I am extremely sensitive to DLP technology. Bummer.


Just to add, everybody I showed it to noticed rainbows. My dad reported an upset stomach (I didn't tell him about mine previously) and my friend reported a headache. Most people only noticed the rainbows if they were looking for them. Not me unfortunately. They were omnipresent.


Time to beg.


After repeated calls to the online retailer they finally agreed to exchange the unit. My choice became a dlp with faster color wheel or LCD. I decided on LCD. I didn't want to risk the same thing happening after spending 2k more.


Enter the infocus LP-790HB. With 3200 lumens, 950:1 contrast ratio and 4:3 aspect, this projector is a multiuse projector that is not slated for hometheatre. The built in color adjustment is rudimentary at best. Still, the specs are impressive... especially when you add in the DVI.


That being said, if used with an HTPC (which I do) this projector is something special. I can fine-tune color from the PC and utilize the DVI connectivity. Best of all, this thing has a GUN. Think medium grey screen for added contrast with PLENTY of lumens to spare. Considering it already has an industry leading 950:1 contrast ratio we are talking yummy LCD goodness.


After watching gladiator and flying the new Lock On Modern Air Combat PC game demo I am pleased as punch with this purchase. The colors were vibrant and excellent. The resolution was perfect. Gladiator looked natural after PC adjustment and spectacular. The ghosting in-game was minimal to unnoticable.


Voila. If anybody has any questions about either unit. I am more than happy to answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Bump just because there are lots of words there and I thought it deserved at lease ONE reply. heheheh
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by jmaurer


Big big big mistake. I recieved the projector and was immediately floored by the smooth, natural looking image. The colors seemed perfect and I never thought LOTR could look so good.


The Rainbows came.


I wasn't looking for them, they just showed up. Within about ten minutes they were everywhere.
... I feel bad about ur experience. I have the NEC and I must say I'm not bothered at all by the rainbow. I'm extremely happy abt the PQ, much better than the LCDs I've seen. (HS10/AE300)


I guess the point to note is, before buying a DLP you really have to confirm whether you are sensitive to rainbows. Since in this section there are so many happy X1 owners, I dun think the majority are sensitive.


can't imagine what will happen if you bought a X1. IMHO the NEC already has much less rainbows than X1.
 

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That was an interesting story that I can totally relate to. I can spot rainbows from across a store, and i need to run my computer monitor at 100 HZ or else I can see the flicker. I was walking through the local Fry's one day and I saw rainbows from a Mitsubishi RPTV, I didn't even know that they made a DLP model until I read the sales card.


I currently use a Sanyo Z1, it is a LCD based projector that does a good job for an entry level PJ. It will be outdated in a few months anyway.
 

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oh, and by the way......


This is the first I have heard of this Infocus LP-790HB. Please tell us more..... I see that it has a DVI connector, is it HDCP capable? What is the noise level like? At 3200 lumens, can you heat your entire house with this unit?


ps. Welcome to the AVS Forum, I saw this thread was your first post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Shedrock


As a matter of fact.... yes it is HDCP capable. Nice eh? The noise level is low low low. My PC is much louder than the projector actually. As I said the color is pretty much spot on perfect after a bit of photoshop saavy adjustments and film looks goooood. Hehehe. Playing games on this thing is SO much fun.


It's about the same warmth as the NEC, in other words hot, like all projectors I guess. I made the mistake earlier tonight of setting my soda next to it. I picked it up 20 mins later to take a drink and it was warm. Blech.


The main thing is it is so bright. My lord this thing is bright. I have three lights on in and around my living room right now and it makes them seem really dim. Like I said, this thing is MADE for a medium grey screen for a super boost in contrast. I'm gonna make my own I think. Actually I almost choked when the local snob store told me a steward firehawk was gonna set me back a grand. No sir. A little web saavy surfing on this fine sight and Grey Gliden + some smooth surface sounds like it would fit the bill. Speaking of... what would be a good smooth surface? Would masonite work? I've read about Parker plastic: is that expensive? Can you buy it in like home depot or a place like that?


Most of all though, it's been on all day and my eyes feel great. No rainbows or eyestrain... thank god. I am getting a bit of screendoor because I'm sitting way too close, but it isn't bad at all. I'm hoping a grey screen will help eliminate the little bit I'm getting, but this is a minor minor quibble.


One thing I did notice though is it looks like I might have a few dust blobs. They are small and practically invisible, but they are there. I don't know if I'm gonna bother trying to blow them away. I may just wait to see if they go on their own. They are so minor, again it's a nitpick.


Thanks for the welcome and I'll check in on the thread again later to answer anybody elses questions (or to bump the thread if nobody does =). All these words deserve at least on bump again =P)
 

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For a DIY screen I would recommend PMing avs member KBK - he is involved with a company called GOO systems. They make paint especially for DIY screens - much higher performance than what you'll get out of standard Gliden. More expensive of course - but still only like $60 or somthing. THey have a gray color that would probably work perfect.


Glad you're happy with the new machine - sounds like everything turned out well.


--EW
 

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jmaurer, thanks for the post. I'm strongly considering the 240k but your post is making me reconsider somewhat. I guess my only question for some of you more experienced forum members would be, is there anything that he could have been doing to increase this rainbow effect? i.e. older DVD, wrong cables, incorrect settings. Don't know, just wanted to get some opinions.
 

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I previously owned the LT150 and now the LT240K. I've had more movie nights than I can count, and with various different people. (Well over 40)Not one of them ever saw rainbows or complained of headaches. But... whenever I have a group meeting with members from this forum... some of them see rainbows. Most of them agree that if they just watched the movie and didn't "look" for them that they wouldn't be bothered by them. One or two of them may have a problem with them. It's just funny that it's never people from work, family or friends. Just AVSForum members. :)


BTW, I do believe that the better the source, the less rainbows.

For what it's worth, test out a DLP and see if it's for you. The picture that I'm getting on my LT240K blows almost everything I've seen out of the water.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok, first some notes. I am extremely sensitive to Rainbows and DLP sickness as I call it. I don't want to be, I just am. I would have MUCH preferred keeping the 240k as it is cheaper than the infocus and has a nice smooth picture. As I said, I wasn't looking for rainbows, they just appeared. As for sources, I used three sources. S-video from a new Denon A/V amp, component out from a cheap Sony DVD player and finally the PC. The PC had by far the best picture. I was using a plain white painted wall as a screen. Think low-tech. One thing about the 240k is that as a PC monitor it is unsurpassed. The thing is clear as a bell. It easily equals the Infocus if not surpassing it in clarity, and the infocus is LCD. As for so many people noticing the rainbows and even having mild physical reactions, I can't really explain it. It is what it is though, and I'm just reporting what happened.


Now the infocus. When I was watching Gladiator I was admiring the black levels, then I noticed the reflection of the projector in my window. Stunning improvement amazingly. The black levels were ultra black in the reflection. So to answer the question, with 950:1 contrast, the blacks are good. With a grey screen and maybe even a filter they are going to blow away the 240k's. All those Lumens to play with is a very good thing. As an aside, I was cruising this forum on my wall this morning. I have skylights and a huge glass door with light leaking shades right next to the projector wall. I was seeing the picture just fine. I do think that with the proper front end (PC) and proper screen, the LP790HB makes a phenomenal LCD home uber toy monitor cinema friend wower. And that's my technical opinion.
 

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I have a NEC 240 , don't know whether it is K version or not. I only see rainbows when I blink, and usually they are worse the darker it is. I barely notice it. Screen door and lack of sharpness is much more annoying for me. The lack of sharpness is normally content related. One problem with really good PJs is that MPEG artifacts on HD becomes really noticeable.


Luckily I don't feel nausea, although the realism of some movies can contribute to vertigo.


I don't want to be too negative. For the price I paid, the LT240 is a darn good PJ. Its the same basic panel as the HT1000, for a lot less money. What you don't get is the iris, a better color wheel and, I think, a better scaler.
 

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i dont see rainbows on my 240, but i do get headaches, and bad ones. This is not just DLP it has to have something to do with the optics, other dlp dont bother me.
 

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Quote:
So to answer the question, with 950:1 contrast, the blacks are good. With a grey screen and maybe even a filter they are going to blow away the 240k's.
:) That's like saying... if I add a grey screen and a filter to the LT240K the blacks are going to blow away (insert higher CR projector here) :)


Regardless, I'm glad you're happy with your LCD. I'm happy with my DLP.

That's all that matters.


BTW, testing out a DLP on a painted white wall (and not a cloth screen) is not a great way to test any PJ. (Especially if it's a gloss) Unless you've really looked into what kind of paint you should use I wouldn't judge your results based on that.


My 2 cents...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Not knocking the 240k's contrast. Just saying with 3300 lumens I can use filters and a grey screen to boost 950:1 to something godly.


Also, in both cases the projectors look phenomenal on a white (matte) wall. Judged by that a proper screen will only make them look better. I have sinced double checked in an a/v shop and rainbows don't seem much, if any better on a proper screen.


I will iterate once again. I wish I could have kept the 240k, but am extremely lucky that I didnt' have too. The moral is, make sure to spend lots of time with a DLP in a home setting before you commit to anything. Also giving the rarely talked about LP790 some airtime. It's a good projector with a HTPC.
 

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Quote:
Not knocking the 240k's contrast. Just saying with 3300 lumens I can use filters and a grey screen to boost 950:1 to something godly.
Really? You can gain more contrast with more lumens.. interesting. I would love to see some figures to back that up with some calibration equipment. I know that a higher lumens can give the "impression" of a higher contrast.. example: a bright object in a dark scene. But I don't think more lumens will actually increase your contrast that much.

Like I said, be happy with what you have, I am. :)

They are both good projectors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Kysersose


Yes. In fact, more lumens does give you flexibility in employing techniques to increase contrast. See the lumen thread that is on the front page of this forum. Sometimes mark 1 eyballs and common sense will tell you what the most expensive calibration instrument merely verifies.... only much quicker and without the expensive hassle.
 

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I agree with that... to a point. Just don't tell me that you can turn a projector with under 1000:1 CR into something "godly" with a filter and a tweak or two. I would be surprised if your LCD could ever approach the CR of my "unmodified" DLP. The eye's can be easily fooled by a really really REALLY bright star on a grey background. That's why we measure CR's with the appropriate expensive equipment.


We don't have to agree on this... just enjoy what you have. :)
 

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I have an LT260K on the way and am excited to see how the high lumens & high contrast specs translate onto my 10' wide Da-Lite HCCV screen.


I have great source in an SDI mod'd DVD player and Holo3D-2-AUX input card on my HTPC, and Panamorph PSO lens. I will invite some AVS locals over for looksy once I get it in-house and tweaked to my liking, then report back.


- Andy
 
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