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My two ftw-21s get worked pretty hard from an fp14k(bridged 8ohm), just below clipping often. I let them cool down for 30sec every couple tracks(various EDM). Never had an issue here. I used to use an nu6kdsp on them and it was very underpowered.
 

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Discussion Starter #62
Back on topic.

If an FTW-21 can't handle an inuke 3000 that is not being clipped, I would discuss sending it back. If the coil was cooked, then that is likely a user error. Cooking a coil is normally user error??? Unless a true problem with the coated wire? or?

Coil or any magnatronic wire is normally very thin and the coating even more so. I would hate to have to be on the hook for the quality of the small coated magnetic wire.... spun around many times around a coil of precision making.
The issue is with the connection of the leads to the voice coil. The coil itself is fine.

It just did not work out. I was fully refunded, no questions asked. Satisfied with that. And because of that, my customer experience with Mach5 was top notch.
 

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Discussion Starter #63
Rock music doesn't have lots of 40hz

A HPF likely wouldn't have helped, unless you frapped it on Bass I Love U for mintues/hours...
The coil itself is fine. It is the one connection from the leads to the voice coil. It came apart.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Did you smoke the coil?
No. Actually it is the connection to the coil from the leads. The coil itself still measures 4 ohms.
I was fully refunded. Will try something else (maybe a B&C?) eventually. But the coil itself is fine.
 

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I would figure out your exact intended usage needs and then get the best tool for the job !


I think you have been given some great suggestions already for your intended usage.


No one will ever know if it was abuse or bad luck or manufacturing defects or a combo of all of it together. Sounds like you are done with those woofers and the company did you right both times.


I would use this time to brush up on all the settings required to make/run a subwoofer successfully and protect it, you sounded a little unclear and hazy on the details of your settings.
 

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Will try something else (maybe a B&C?) eventually.
Brush up on winISD, model the B&C against a price equivalent amount of PA-460. I think you will find that the PA-460's win.

The 460's are like $90 and the B&C's can go up to $600 each or whatnot.

4 or 6 460's will beat it because that's 4-6x the cone area and coil area, which means reduced excursion and increased cooling. Which means loudness for days with no distortion. As I mentioned or eluded to already.

Given how cheap the 460's are, there is no reason to go with less than 2 of them.
Or 4 of them, one in each corner. Or perhaps stacked together in one corner. Whatever measures/sounds best.

You should probably pick up a csl umik-1 and the newest version of rew, if not already...

Obviously if you are limited to a single cone, the B&C 21 is the one to get.
 

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If I were a woofer company I'd have the following options on the website:

1) Default option: 30-day moneyback and 1 year defects warranty (ignoring obvious abuse/missing parts.)
if returning it: re-stocking fee applies after 30 days. No returns/refunds after 90 days.
No savings on re-coning.

2) Enhanced protection: Fully tested woofer, guaranteed not-doa (shipment damage claims are something else). 1 year defects warranty.
All defect replacements are fully tested (1 full exchange allowed within 1 year no questions asked*).
if returning it: re-stocking fee applies if it was abused. Full moneyback up to 1 year if no missing parts/abuse.
No savings on re-coning.

3) Advanced protection: Fully tested + 2 full exchanges within 2 years no questions asked* + 1 free re-coning no questions asked up-to 5 years.
All replacements & re-cones are fully tested.
if returning it: the re-stocking fee waived within 1 year (even if soft parts are abused or missing.) After 1 year the re-stocking fee applies. If no missing parts/abuse, a 2 year moneyback (default amount), otherwise refund reduced.
Price reduction on additional re-cones within 5 years.

*parts cannot be missing

That gives the user the option to either save money (scrooge) or have the added protection/testing (ned flanders).
hint hint ;)

Say $15 for option 2 and $100 for option 3. (Or whatever... ;))
 

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If I were a woofer company I'd have the following options on the website:

1) Default option: 30-day moneyback and 1 year defects warranty (ignoring obvious abuse/missing parts.)
if returning it: re-stocking fee applies after 30 days. No returns/refunds after 90 days.
No savings on re-coning.

2) Enhanced protection: Fully tested woofer, guaranteed not-doa (shipment damage claims are something else). 1 year defects warranty.
All defect replacements are fully tested (1 full exchange allowed within 1 year no questions asked*).
if returning it: re-stocking fee applies if it was abused. Full moneyback up to 1 year if no missing parts/abuse.
No savings on re-coning.

3) Advanced protection: Fully tested + 2 full exchanges within 2 years no questions asked* + 1 free re-coning no questions asked up-to 5 years.
All replacements & re-cones are fully tested.
if returning it: the re-stocking fee waived within 1 year (even if soft parts are abused or missing.) After 1 year the re-stocking fee applies. If no missing parts/abuse, a 2 year moneyback (default amount), otherwise refund reduced.
Price reduction on additional re-cones within 5 years.

*parts cannot be missing

That gives the user the option to either save money (scrooge) or have the added protection/testing (ned flanders).
hint hint ;)

Say $15 for option 2 and $100 for option 3. (Or whatever... ;))
Only change after a few beeeers...

Default option should have a 60 day warranty as I have been lazy over times and not properly tested a delivered sub within 30 days.....

If not pushed some after 60 then screeeeew me... But if then defective still might get a sub-woofer and gas can flame treatment on a yu-boob-shish video. All company failures come with a price, unless a self fail, then just hair on fire...

Link to Hair on fire, blown subwoofer / coil video here :>
 

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If I were a woofer company I'd have the following options on the website:

1) Default option: 30-day moneyback and 1 year defects warranty (ignoring obvious abuse/missing parts.)
if returning it: re-stocking fee applies after 30 days. No returns/refunds after 90 days.
No savings on re-coning.

2) Enhanced protection: Fully tested woofer, guaranteed not-doa (shipment damage claims are something else). 1 year defects warranty.
All defect replacements are fully tested (1 full exchange allowed within 1 year no questions asked*).
if returning it: re-stocking fee applies if it was abused. Full moneyback up to 1 year if no missing parts/abuse.
No savings on re-coning.

3) Advanced protection: Fully tested + 2 full exchanges within 2 years no questions asked* + 1 free re-coning no questions asked up-to 5 years.
All replacements & re-cones are fully tested.
if returning it: the re-stocking fee waived within 1 year (even if soft parts are abused or missing.) After 1 year the re-stocking fee applies. If no missing parts/abuse, a 2 year moneyback (default amount), otherwise refund reduced.
Price reduction on additional re-cones within 5 years.

*parts cannot be missing

That gives the user the option to either save money (scrooge) or have the added protection/testing (ned flanders).
hint hint ;)

Say $15 for option 2 and $100 for option 3. (Or whatever... ;))
What? Lol give the normal warranty, set a price on re-cones and be done.
All that other stuff will lose you money, theres not enough money in it to begin with. No one wants to spend money on anything. They want cheap drivers..... then dont even buy them lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #71
I would figure out your exact intended usage needs and then get the best tool for the job !


I think you have been given some great suggestions already for your intended usage.


No one will ever know if it was abuse or bad luck or manufacturing defects or a combo of all of it together. Sounds like you are done with those woofers and the company did you right both times.


I would use this time to brush up on all the settings required to make/run a subwoofer successfully and protect it, you sounded a little unclear and hazy on the details of your settings.
" Sounds like you are done with those woofers and the company did you right both times."

Right on both counts.
 

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Discussion Starter #72

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Discussion Starter #73
Brush up on winISD, model the B&C against a price equivalent amount of PA-460. I think you will find that the PA-460's win.

The 460's are like $90 and the B&C's can go up to $600 each or whatnot.

4 or 6 460's will beat it because that's 4-6x the cone area and coil area, which means reduced excursion and increased cooling. Which means loudness for days with no distortion. As I mentioned or eluded to already.
I was trying to use the existing box I already made. Although your argument based on price IS compelling. I don't want to wind up like some of the fanatics spending $50k plus on speakers.;)
 

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It looks like you modeled them in different boxes. Here they are in your existing box.
The 152 is with 1800W and 115 with 1200W. Keeps them within 1mm of xmax.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
It looks like you modeled them in different boxes. Here they are in your existing box.
The 152 is with 1800W and 115 with 1200W. Keeps them within 1mm of xmax.
You are using a different version of WinISD. I wonder if that is why? When I tried to model with my existing box I got a larger peak than you did. Or maybe the TS params we used are different? See attached.
 

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Do NOT use an inuke 3000 bridged for the FTW-21. Even though the Ultimax 18 is rated lower RMS wattage (1000 vs 1200)and can handle it, the FTW-21 cannot. It measured 63 volts peak, which models in WinISD 0.7.950, 29.10.2016 as 1240watts @63 volts (see attachment). So according to the modeling, the sub should be OK. IT IS NOT! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

The sub was throughly tested this time, as my first sub had an issue and was replaced no questions. THis one will not.

BTW, modeling this way to determine the wattage for the Ultimax and a stereo integrity HT-18 worked out successfully. The FTW not so much.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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EDIT:
To try to elucidate, the following is the scenario.
I have a bookshelf stereo/CD player with RCA jack subwoofer outputs. I use the stereo for music while lifting. I am currently powering a stereo integrity HT-18 in a ported enclosure with an inuke 1k DSP. The amp clipping red LED comes on during high levels of sound. No issues.

I got the FTW to add to the sound. Modeling in WinISP shows a flat response when installed in a 17cuft enclosure tuned to 21 Hz. Built. installed. Speaker stopped working after a few minutes. Mach 5 replaced, no questions asked. THe returned speaker voice coil lead connection was defective I was told. Warranty issue.

Replacement speaker installed. Set up the amp so the red clipping light flickers. Listening to the second motorhead CD, the replacement FTW stopped working.

Just checked a few things, which previous posts I had forgot.
The Behringer 1K DSP amp for the HT 18 and 3k DSP for the FTW are connected with a Y splitter. (The bookshelf only has 1 RCA jack pair.)
The 3k amp has the LP filter set at 20Hz configured as 2nd order linkwitz-riley at cutoff slope of 12dB/octave.
The 3k amp has the HP filter set at 578Hz configured as 4th order linkwitz-riley at cutoff slope of 24dB/octave.
After the sub stopped, I checked the signal voltage (NOTE: did not do prior) at 63 volts peak. This was measured with my fluke 87 set to record min-max. Max was 63 o er the course of a motorhead song.
In WinISP 63 volts signal at the speaker models as 1240 watts.

As for Mach 5 audio, customer service is top notch. That has not changed. After a few email exchanges regarding the second speaker, they have already refunded my money. This before I even shipped back the second speaker. While the product has not performed as I expected, I cannot say anything bad about the company. They have taken care of my problems whether operator induced or not.
Low pass at 20Hz?
 
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