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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
According to Gus Stelzer, retired Senior Executive of General Motors and author of The Nightmare of Camelot, there are many other features obtained only by buying American made products from American owned companies.


Mr. Stelzer commented that "These quality features are made possible only by taxes paid by American companies and American workers. Foreign companies and foreign workers don't pay taxes in America."



Real Deficit Reduction

Public Colleges

Public Libraries

Public Hospitals

NASA Space Program

Sanitation Services

Aid to Minorities

Aid to Disadvantaged

Food Stamps

Parks and Recreation

Grants to the Arts and Humanities

Construction and Maintenance of Roads, Streets and Bridges

The fact that American companies are taxed to support these obligations and foreign companies are not also means that foreign producers usually have enormous production cost advantages over American producers. For example, we spend over $1,000 per American citizen for military defense, where China spends about $30 per Chinese citizen.


Do you buy chinese made products (speakers)?



Do you consciously try and buy American to stock your home theater. Speakers in particular??


The majority of the best speakers you can buy (anywhere in the world) are here in the US (Wilson, Servodrive :D, Aerial, etc) are made here with American workers who support American families.


The economics of such are very real. If you have watched the democratic debates, they speak of many companies are bleeding away the US dollar with foreign built products? As the global economy continues, many country's are profiting from us but your neighbor may lose his job, home, etc.


HT equipment is purchased with extra money that is in the household. Do you feel obligated to buy American even if the quality is similar (or better) rather than a company that uses foreign labor to get a like product to market for less. Yes, the Chinese family and town will thank you, but will Joe 6-pack have a textile or manufacturing job next week. Will his family thus lose benefits? Do you care??


Me....I can't see any reason to buy any speaker that is foreign made as there are too many choices here. Is own selfish or hrewd who does or is all about one and his money...and screw the US and the blue collar families!!
 

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Wow... And I thought the Hsu Vs. SVS was going to start a ruckus...


You make a lot of valid points. This thought process is always fascinating... You see the engineer driving the Mercedes... Is it really worth the extra $20,000 over the Cadillac ? Especially when you consider the issues listed in your post...


You also (so we don't just pick on white collar) the guy with the "Union Label" Tee Shirt buying "made in China" everything... because of price.


You listed some VERY high end companies....


Here would be an interesting study... How many (American) companies can you find that build home theatre / Audio products (in America) which each component is $2000 or less... ??? For criteria's sake... let's say 75 % of the component, speaker, or subwoofer has to be American Made...
 

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I own Australian speakers, made in Australia. My subs are M&K's, made in the US I hope. I understand the point, it happens all over the world. I was only told recently that Kef - the great UK speaker company as their speakers assembled abroad. As you can gather I was shocked by this..:(


Trouble with foreign labour, its cheap. We have had this sort of problem in the UK for years, and now I have moved to Australia, it seems to be spreading their as well..Cheap labour, cheap goods, I'll take them, that is the approach we get by your average Joe, not realising the real ramifications behind the decision.


I remember quering my CC statement over the phone, and I was talking to someone in India. Apparently there was abit of an uproar about this, using cheap labour, as not to pay the higher cost it would be to employ an Australian - SHOCKING!!!


Mark
 

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well, I have a rocket sub, which is made in China, and b&w speakers, which is made in England, and a NEC projector, which is (I believe) coming from one of the Asian countries, probably Japan or one of its subsidiaries.


There's a really good article on globalization here:
http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/i...Article&ID=928

it's the head of AFL/CIO giving a talk at Wharton, which is probably the bastion against everything he stands for.


There's also an article about white collar outsourcing to India in wired that was a good read:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.02/india.html


however, the most convincing Made In America articles I've read recently came from the LA Times about Wal-Mart:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-w...6.storygallery


basically, Wal-Mart is evil, making the rich richer and the poor poorer.


Personally, I love rockets, and would continue to buy them. Until I can afford Wilsons, that is. What would be a good list of American-made brands, that are American from the ground up? Where no parts come at all from anything not American? You might be hard pressed to find the brand that doesn't get copper wire from somewhere not in the US, or mahogany not in the US, etc, etc.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by thebland



Do you buy chinese made products (speakers)?



Do you consciously try and buy American to stock your home theater. Speakers in particular??

Jeff,


GREAT thread!


I do consciously try and buy American. My speakers are Phase Technology!

And they make ALL of their own parts for thier speakers, down to winding thier own voice coils! :D


You make many valid points, THANKS!


Best Regards,

Patrick
 

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Well, market rules apply here. People will pay for what they place value on. Some people equate value strictly in price terms, while others have additional value dimensions that go into their purchasing decisions like where a product is made, the labor or environmental practices of a company, the product quality, the prestige of a particular brand, convenience, customer service, etc. But, even then what counts as an American product? I mean, a Toyota Tacoma pickup truck probably has a greater economic multiplier impact closer to home than any domestic model because the truck is manufactured only a few miles from my house. Yet, it was engineered overseas. But, it's still more of an "American" car than the PT Cruiser, which is built in Mexico.


Since Canada's basically a U.S. suburb, do my Paradigms count as a Made In America purchase, or should I check my passport at the border crossing?
 

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Professional courtesy keeps me from stating the country of origin of the parts or finished products of many, many revered speaker lines. Most of the high-end, respected lines are made partially or entirely in China, and they disguise the fact. Suffice it to say, you have pushed my hot button.


I challenge any and all speaker manufacturers to state the country of origin of their parts or finished goods, and I'll get only a few takers. It is shameful, in my opinion. I respect the budget/value lines represented on this forum, though, even if they are made in China. They make no bones about it and they're up front.


Triad buys MDF made in America and builds it's own enclosures with it in Portland. Our subwoofer amplifiers cost us twice as much as Chinese amps because they're Class AB and made in Portland with high U.S. parts content. Our drivers come from Eminence, Vifa, Scan-Speak, Peerless, and Seas, and are almost all from Northern Europe. Our premium veneer sheets come from Japan. All sixty Triad employees are employed in the United States. There are probably no products in our segment that are 100% American, but if we could buy better drivers here (and they'd sure be a lot cheaper!!), we would. It is my hope that Americans at least TRY for a good amount of American-made products when they shop.


Oh, and I drive a Ford and a Chevy. Um...not at the same time, though...too dangerous...


You struck a nerve. Last month, I grouched at a guy driving a brand-new Toyota with a "Proud to be an American" bumper sticker on it. Maybe he was on his way to WalMart to buy some shoes made in Pakistan...


(Rant off.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The openning reference is from the First Chapter of

How Americans Can Buy American - 2nd Edition

by Roger Simmermaker.


I am no democrat but this isn't a topic that I picked out of the air. It is national in it's importance and the democrats are quite vocal about it. I, too, agree in it's national importance.


The only reason companies build off shore is money. Only money. Yes, they can provide more value as they pay their foreign worker 10% (or less) of what an American worker makes. But make no mistake, it is money that drives this - plain and simple. To hell with the American worker!


My newest LCRs are SPL Runts, assembled here in the US (Chicago I believe) by audiophile American workers. Those same folks constructed my awesome subs.


With today's jobless rate the way it is, buying from companies that are leaving the American workers in the unemployment line in favor of Chinese, Eastern, Mexican or other non-american workers is wrong.


Heck look at the trade deficit. Particularly with China, our number one importer.


My thoughts are that they should be avoided in hopes that the pressure will push labor to the American market.


Certainly, some purchases are unavoidable but when there is a similar performing product, shouldn't we all opt for the American family?


Look at the speakers you have...


1. Are they built here in US?

2. Can you find similar quality here for more (or less)?

3. Do you care??


Note that that some of the on-line sellers don't even use B & M to hock their products. THey undercut the American worker two ways....


1. products not carried in American stores - only in the void that is the Internet.

2. products produced in a foreign country.


Ironically, those here that buy them feel they are getting Bang for the buck, yet the manufacturer with all of their financial avoidance of a tangible place here in the US, avoidance of advertising (and those who benefit from such)and foreign built to boot are probably making more profit than an American product sold at full MSRP! The only loser is our economy and the poor sucker in the unemployment line.


This, to me, is unconscionable given our unemployment rate.
 

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I wonder if all these american companies will stop using software from Micrsoft or hardware from HP considering that they are exporting technology and customer service jobs to India in mass?


It's not just the consumers that are benefiting from foregin goods or labor.


I make a living as a programmer, and it is scary to see a trend where we Americans are not only losing blue collar jobs, but also white collar jobs to cheap oversees labor.


Edit: BTW I do care. My speakers are Canadian, with parts from who knows where. I can proudly say that I have owned GM cars my entire life though. After typing that, I just realized my 35th anniversary Z28 was built in Canada too!
 

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thebland,

dittos! I concur with your sentiment.

I do feel like crap now having bought Austrian Vienna's.

At least it wasn't to an underpaid-labor competitor....even though the end result is the same.

I have seen pathetic responses here regarding how "nice" & the chinese people are....big deal.

Don't forget the contributions the demanding labor unions have made to this situation.

Great thread!
 

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Quote:
all my speakers are canadian.


but then again, so am I.
Shhhh!! (Technically, they're still made in America!)


Yes, I own speakers made in America! Support speakers made in America! Especially those made north of the border! :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks guys!


We have a great hobby and in all of my readings the best HT products are produced here in the United States.


It might be a good idea to list manufacturers we know who manufacture here in the US.


Kudos to Triad, ServoDrive.........
 

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Seriously, not to bash american made speakers or anything, but is it reasonnable to try to 'support' american made speakers?!


I know I'm threading on dangerous ground (patriotism), but if you go to go audition speakers for example, if you learn that the speaker which you were about to buy is not made in the USA, would you reconsider the choice and purchase a possibly more expensive speaker which you might not prefer in the first place?


I know I wouldn't pay an extra 20% just to get a canadian made sticker on a speaker...


I mean, the idea is nice, but is anyone actually going to go forward with that when they'll have to pay the bill?
 

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Ah, but the question is, what percentage of your ostensibly US (or European, or Canadian, or...) speaker is made in China? :) Or the pacific rim? Anyone care to guess? I have a pretty good idea and to say it would shock most of us is an understatement.


A strick analysis of all the nuances of import and export and the resulting impacts across borders will never likely be made in this forum. But the reality of the West turning into an information provider because the sheer economics dictate such an advantage for us is still present.


In short, if it paid, we'd make 'em here. When it doesn't, we go under and therefore have no positive effect whatsoever, regardless of the lure of domestic manufacturing for its own sake (which I, for one, would always find the ideal...assuming it always paid in all industries.)


Exceptionally lean manufacturers like Triad aside for the moment (hi Paul) are we to enforce tariffs, duties, and restrictions so as to lend the rest of a bloated, overtaxed American manufacturing base an uncompetitive competitive advantage? Or should we support what had been oppressive third-world manufacturing so as to convert it into modern, free-market enterprise with benefits for all? China is already in such a state of flux it's anybody's guess, but the evidence says all of China is rushing headlong to a middle-class prosperity absolutely unheard of even 5 short years ago. It's already happening and the result will be freedoms, prosperity, and higher overall prices.


If there's quality-of-life justification for the high US taxation that funds all the programs thebland lists, then there should be similar justification for importing in order to assist the rest of the planet in achieving economic and social equivalence. If the goal is quality of life, why limit it to this continent?


By the way, what percentage of global GDP did China contribute in 2003? Would you believe only 3%?
 

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Ho-boy... an economics lesson thread is on it's way...


But out of curiosty, if a speaker is made in China (by that I mean farmed out by an american company) for 100 bucks and is sold here for 500 and the person who sells it has a 30-40% profit margin, I would think that the vast majority of that money is "staying" in the United States anyway. Or am I just not getting it? ^_^;
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Quote:
Seriously, not to bash american made speakers or anything, but is it reasonnable to try to 'support' american made speakers?!.........


.......I mean, the idea is nice, but is anyone actually going to go forward with that when they'll have to pay the bill?
This is really where one looks at himself and a greater good and says, " Can I survive without the foreign made speakers, if I look harder can I find a comparable set and is paying a bit more the right thing to do'?


This is personal and ultimately trickles down to core values.


Perhaps, half of your family has lost jobs to foreign markets. That might help you decide. Perhaps not having everything you want is power and self strengthening. Perhaps succumbing to money and a low price without regard of its impact to others is too selfless to consider....


It is very personal (and very telling about you too).
 
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