AVS Forum banner

3941 - 3960 of 6078 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo /forum/post/15934109


At this point in time I do not get my ABC programming from WKOW. As with everything in this world, that is subject to change.


I did a short capture a little bit ago and you sports guys/gals are going to hate the macroblocking that is going to appear now. The bitrate was no higher than 12 Mbps, averaging around 11. The two subchannels were around 3 Mbps.


What used to look good on this station is now going to look like sh!t, not just crap.

It's not even about sports to me, it's about ****ing quality and it makes our beautiful tv sets display this horse **** is never gonna get better. **** THE FCC!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ehren /forum/post/15937588


**** THE FCC!

I totally agree, the overall quality of the video on WKOW will suffer.


As much as I do not care for the FCC, they had nothing to do with this. The multiple streams are part of the ATSC standard and Congress never drafted a law that said only one stream allowed, if it is HD.


It wasn't a local decision either. You need to complain to the owners of WKOW, Quincy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
WKOW used to have the best HD quality in town. Monday Night Football was a great showcase for OTA HD. Those days are gone...


I have always felt we should have the legal right to acquire network programming directly from the networks. This bit-starvation (AKA "butchering") is a good example of why it should be allowed. Another is pre-empting for local broadcasts (it's basketball playoff time again, too).


Here's hoping DirecTV's HD feed from WKOW has a higher bitrate than what we can get OTA. I've been recording everything OTA because, in general, it's better quality than from the satellite (no re-compression). I don't think we currently watch any series on ABC, but they do sometimes show movies we want to see.


- LoopinFool
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ehren /forum/post/15933788


my godddddddddddd RTN sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, now. There's a whole generation who hasn't been exposed to great shows like Emergency!, Alias Smith and Jones, and Ellery Queen.

I'm glad it's available, I just wish it didn't steal needed bandwidth from other streams.

Then again, there are times I think RTN should get more bandwidth than ABC (no offense meant to ABC lovers).



- LoopinFool
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoopinFool /forum/post/15958749


Now, now. There's a whole generation who hasn't been exposed to great shows like Emergency!, Alias Smith and Jones, and Ellery Queen.

I'm glad it's available, I just wish it didn't steal needed bandwidth from other streams.

The RTN SD stream suffers as well, as it doesn't get enough bits. While it is true that there are a lot of people who haven't seen said shows and those who want to relive them, the viewers would be better off renting the DVDs from NetFlix. More and more of the old shows are appearing on DVD. Rent the DVDs and leave the HD bitrate alone.

Quote:
Then again, there are times I think RTN should get more bandwidth than ABC (no offense meant to ABC lovers).

Even if the stations carrying RTN were to triple the bitrate, it would still look like crap. Why? Because they cram a lot of various RTN feeds on the sat transponder and all suffer from a lack of bandwidth. I'd have to go look again, but I think they barely meet the 2:1 reencode ratio, in that the sat feed is H.264 at the same bitrate that OTA MPEG-2 is getting.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,479 Posts
I don't know. WHA DTV has three channels and still does a pretty good job on it's HD content. I don't see much break up of the picture like RTN does at times.


RTN looks ok to me though, because I was raised on B&W tube TV sets with 14" screens. The picture quality was "good enough". So when I see "Leave IT to Beaver" on RTN now, it's about 10 times better than I ever saw it when I was a kid.
In fact, I have a difficult time these days with folks who complain too much about PQ. If anyone remembers how blurry Bonanza looked on those original old RCA color TVs with the round CRTs.... argh! The original color TV picture tubes (CRTs) didn't hold up too well, what with shadow masks warping or shifting position. Heck, any no name 20" to 22" HDTV looks wonderful compared to that old stuff. LOL Sorry, apologies from this "old geezer".
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B /forum/post/15962089


I don't know. WHA DTV has three channels and still does a pretty good job on it's HD content. I don't see much break up of the picture like RTN does at times.

WHA also dropped from 1080i to 720p, because of the macroblocking. Because you do see macroblocking, proves that there is a problem.

Quote:
RTN looks ok to me though, because I was raised on B&W tube TV sets with 14" screens. The picture quality was "good enough". So when I see "Leave IT to Beaver" on RTN now, it's about 10 times better than I ever saw it when I was a kid.
In fact, I have a difficult time these days with folks who complain too much about PQ. If anyone remembers how blurry Bonanza looked on those original old RCA color TVs with the round CRTs.... argh! The original color TV picture tubes (CRTs) didn't hold up too well, what with shadow masks warping or shifting position. Heck, any no name 20" to 22" HDTV looks wonderful compared to that old stuff. LOL Sorry, apologies from this "old geezer".

This "old geezer" also remembers B&W shows and watching Bonanza on my grandparents' color TV. They were an early adopter.


Doesn't mean I have to live with crappy digital TV when I know that it can be so much better. Hell, I go out of my way trying to get it as best as possible.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,479 Posts
[
Quote:
Doesn't mean I have to live with crappy digital TV when I know that it can be so much better. Hell, I go out of my way trying to get it as best as possible.

Yeah, me too. I drive the wife nuts with my constant tweaking. Usually just a bit more brightness, or a little tint or color adjust. Then there's the signal strength. . . and the angle of the LCD screen. . . And maybe if I put my OTA antenna 3 feet higher!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B /forum/post/15962633


Yeah, me too. I drive the wife nuts with my constant tweaking. Usually just a bit more brightness, or a little tint or color adjust. Then there's the signal strength. . . and the angle of the LCD screen. . . And maybe if I put my OTA antenna 3 feet higher!

10' and 12' BUD? Computer system PVR? No commercials, no bugs, no snipes, real closing credits?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo /forum/post/15959529


The RTN SD stream suffers as well, as it doesn't get enough bits. While it is true that there are a lot of people who haven't seen said shows and those who want to relive them, the viewers would be better off renting the DVDs from NetFlix. More and more of the old shows are appearing on DVD. Rent the DVDs and leave the HD bitrate alone.

I agree with you 100% that they barely have enough bits to broadcast one MPEG2 HD stream.

However, these shows were originally free to the viewer and are now free via RTN. People who didn't even know these shows existed might encounter them, enjoy them, and share them with others. Having the "retro" networks available OTA fits in well with the Broadcast TV paradigm.


Don't forget that we're all complaining about the quality of something we get for free. Your argument can easily be extended to "Don't watch network TV. Just rent the Blu-Ray when it comes out." If enough people decide to do that, and inform their local stations why, we might get our quality back.


I'm sure you and I both knew this was going to happen when we first learned about sub-channels. It's a crying shame what they're doing to "HDTV", but it's no surprise.

I do miss that PBS HD loop. It was gorgeous!


- LoopinFool
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoopinFool /forum/post/15962870


Having the "retro" networks available OTA fits in well with the Broadcast TV paradigm.

While it may fit the broadcast paradigm, it does not work packing 20 lbs of stuff into a 10 lb bucket.

Quote:
Don't forget that we're all complaining about the quality of something we get for free. Your argument can easily be extended to "Don't watch network TV. Just rent the Blu-Ray when it comes out." If enough people decide to do that, and inform their local stations why, we might get our quality back.

I do that now. There are things I do not watch/capture anymore because of the network bugs, but mostly because of the damn snipes. When I can't get ABC the way I do now, I won't be watching via WKOW, as I won't tolerate macroblocking.


All during the transition the PSAs (some of them) were pushing crystal clear digital picture. In my dictionary, crystal clear is not equal to macroblocked images.

Quote:
I'm sure you and I both knew this was going to happen when we first learned about sub-channels. It's a crying shame what they're doing to "HDTV", but it's no surprise.

I did not expect it to get this bad. There are horror stories all around the country.

Quote:
I do miss that PBS HD loop. It was gorgeous!

I watched some of the loop videos and there was really horrible macroblocking.


You should see the way that I see PBS HD. And that source is not perfect, but at least I see it before WPT gets it and re-encodes it to 720p.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo /forum/post/15962955


I did not expect it to get this bad. There are horror stories all around the country.

Yeah, I can't believe they're putting multiple "HD" streams on one station. That's going way, way too far.
Quote:
I watched some of the loop videos and there was really horrible macroblocking.

I didn't say it was all gorgeous. But, it was almost all slow pans at the same exposure which do well in MPEG2. Scene changes had some macroblocking, but it's nothing like what we're seeing now. I don't remember it being horrible.
Quote:
You should see the way that I see PBS HD. And that source is not perfect, but at least I see it before WPT gets it and re-encodes it to 720p.

Your posts often pique my interest. I almost got a BUD long ago -- in large part to have access to the E/W network feeds.


- LoopinFool
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoopinFool /forum/post/15963214


Yeah, I can't believe they're putting multiple "HD" streams on one station. That's going way, way too far.

To the stations that are doing it, it seems not be going to far for them.

Quote:
I don't remember it being horrible.

You got me thinking. The show I'm thinking of may have been after they added SD streams, buit don't remember of it was part of the loop or not. So, you are probably right.

Quote:
Your posts often pique my interest. I almost got a BUD long ago -- in large part to have access to the E/W network feeds.

I've had my two for lots of year now. Not all E/W feeds were ITC. The landscape has drastically changed over the years and it is changing yet again. It is not a cheap hobby. I've purchased a couple of very expensive commercial receivers and one was obsolete well over a year ago and other was recently made obsolete. The receivers were for SD MPEG-2 feeds.


The two analog IRDs that I have are only good for moving the dishes.


The only constant has been the dishes
I really need a couple of 4.5 meter dishes though
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoopinFool /forum/post/15963788


No, but I believe you could legally subscribe to them back then.

That was a long time ago. When the sat act was passed, stations contested the subscriptions and lots of people were cut off.

Quote:
You could always just install one of these .

While one of those would be nice, they are meant to feed separate receivers. For a computer setup, like mine, it would be hard to select the multitude of inputs. The switches that are available (which I have) can only select one of four inputs. There are more than four birds that I "look" at, plus it makes it hard to go to a new location



But, that kind of setup would be really cool.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo /forum/post/16011610


As posted in another thread, here is a funny posting from WISC regarding the enhanced nightlite service.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=65143

That's great!


There's a reason devices always had a hard switch for the channel 3-4 RF modulator! Pretty menus and remotes are always better, right?



- LoopinFool
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts
I have no idea if the delayed programming on WKOW is going to be in HD, or not. It sure as frak should be.


I personally do not watch Thursday night ABC programming. So I didn't think about capturing Ugly Betty. I just got back from being out, so I can capture Grey's Anatomy and The Practice, and will. I'll have them as a backup in case anyone needs either, or both, of tonight's episodes.
 
3941 - 3960 of 6078 Posts
Top