AVS Forum banner

3961 - 3980 of 6078 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
270 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo /forum/post/16031273


I have no idea if the delayed programming on WKOW is going to be in HD, or not. It sure as frak should be.


I personally do not watch Thursday night ABC programming. So I didn't think about capturing Ugly Betty. I just got back from being out, so I can capture Grey's Anatomy and The Practice, and will. I'll have them as a backup in case anyone needs either, or both, of tonight's episodes.

I think it's funny, in just about every one of your posts, you preface with "I don't watch this, but...."


just an observation.... what DO you watch from a local station? and

What do you actually LIKE about television or network television? or even local television for that matter... For something that stresses you out so much, I figured you would have given up by now.



When they delayed Lost last year, they had it in HD.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattymo /forum/post/16031725


I think it's funny, in just about every one of your posts, you preface with "I don't watch this, but...."

That is because I don't watch the two shows mentioned, either OTA or DVB-S. As a public service, I listed that I would capture in case someone locally needs it because: 1) they didn't catch the later delay 2) totally forgot about the delay


If the capture isn't needed by anyone, I will be deleting it, as I won't be watching.


Normally, during this March Madness crap (IMHO), the shows on ABC are repeats, since Feb sweeps just ended. This year, because sweeps was delayed, new episodes are being pre-empted.

Quote:
just an observation.... what DO you watch from a local station? and

What do you actually LIKE about television or network television? or even local television for that matter... For something that stresses you out so much, I figured you would have given up by now.

Locally:

ABC - 27News, Nightline (if I catch the 10 news, I just leave it on, too lazy to tune in DVB-S), Jimmy KImmel (about 50% of the time)

CBS - Nothing

NBC - Nothing (emergency backup of Medium or Heroes)

Fox - Fringe, Bones, Terminator, Dollhouse

CW - Nothing

PBS - Nothing (the down convert to 720p sucks)


DVB-S

ABC - Lost, Life On Mars, Castle

CW - Gossip Girl, Privileged (done for the season), One Tree Hill, Reaper

PBS - some Masterpiece Classic, Nova and Nature (depending on the topic). All in the original 1080i.

Clean - Heroes, 90210, House (1080i), Medium

Syndi - Jeopardy! (HD), Legend of the Seeker


DVB-S2

CBS - Nothing (due to TI, can't lock CBS)

NBC - Might become emergency backup when I get the H.264 editing and audio issue resolved.


The only CBS show that I used to watch was Ghost Whisperer. But the CBS snipes are the worst in the OTA broadcast business, so I do not care that I can't get it via the preferred method, as the bitrate is too low via WISC. I'll just get the DVD releases, though I would prefer Blu-ray.


The CW is really beginning to piss me off as well. A recent snipe on Reapar for the stupid reality ATM showcovered a lot more screen than usual. I stopped getting Smallville and Supernatual because of the snipes AND because both those shows are now released on 1080p Blu-ray (no snipes, no bug in the wrong area of the HD screen and real closing credits).


Fox is beginning to get on my nerve with their large sprints that detract from the show. They, currently, do not do them as often as everyone else. Terminator is released on 1080p, so if the snipes get worse, that might fall off my list.


You probably know my two biggest complaints, but will repeat them here, so that the context is complete.


1) Snipes: The worst possible annoyance to television watching that the idiots in broadcasting ever came up with. It is the most hated thing about television viewing, not just by me either. I had stated that I would never get a pizza pan dish in my yard (for SD programming). But the possibility was there for HD programming. Well that ain't gonna happen now, as I am not going to pay programmers good money to step all over the HD video with snipes. I've seen what they do when I visit my daughter's family (they get free TW cable, so I've seen all the HD channels and the snipes suck).


2) Macroblocking: The bitrate available for a single stream of 1080i HD is right on the line, many a time falling into macroblocking territory. Add a SD stream and it is all over but the shouting (which has happened here often). A single stream 720p HD takes more to break down before it macroblocks. Reduce that down to 15 Mbps, or less (WKOW, you listening), and it too has problems. I've posted a comparison of what ABC looked like and what WKOW did to it, and that was with only a single SD stream. Fox isn't off the hook either. Fringe hasn't been on because of the damn Idol thing. But, since I didn't remove the timer entry, the capture had started this past Tuesday. I killed it, when I noticed it was running and took a quite look to make sure. I managed to land on a location that had a horrible batch of macroblocking. I did an image capture, but haven't posted that to my website yet. Fox is hurting because of two things. One is the limit of the bitrate to 15Mbps, so that a station can fit in a SD stream, even if the station doesn't have a SD stream (talk about a total waste of null packets). Secondly is the delivery method. Even though Fox is currently using the fastest 8PSK DVB-S bitrate possible, the packing of 4 SD streams and 4 HD streams into a single mux eliminates the possibility of even doing 15 Mbps for HD. Even though Fox is going to DVB-S2 8PSK, they won't really gain any bits. They'll only get some back once the 4 SD streams are eliminated. That should help, as the current average bitrate for the shows I watch is only around 9 Mbps. It has gone as high as 10 Mbps That is just too low.


3) Bugs: Very transparent bugs, out in the far lower right corner are tollerable. The ABC bug used to be that way. Now it is larger and moved to the 4:3 safe area. All the networks have done that and it is annoying to HD viewers. The local Fox47 HD bug is too opaque. Some Fox affiliates have nice transparent bugs. Others have more opaque white bugs. Others are like Fox47, smaller but very opaque, while the worst are opaque and pretty much fill the Fox allowed image size. Then we get the WISC, WMTV and WPT bugs on the screen, along with the network bugs. How annoying.


4) Interruptions: The constant commercial interruptions. An hour program barely reaches 41-42 minutes these days, with some CW programming actually running under 40 minutes. I hope the Fox experiment with limited commercial break lengths (the number of interruptions is still the same) for Fringe and Dollhouse works. It is nice to have decent progam lengths.


5) Weather: non-emergency weather interruptions. Prime example: WMTV dropping to SD in order to put up a notice about a weather WATCH for the far lower-left area of the state, that wasn't even going to arrive in that area until well after primetime programming. Yet HD viewing was destroyed for the last half of a program, before the 10pm news. It could have waited until the norma weather forecast during the news. Plus, how many HD viewers even saw it?


What do I like about television? I used to really enjoy the entertainment factor. But it has become really frustrating because of the four major items listed. It is becomming less fun to sit back and watch a show.


And yes, the thought has crossed my mind, several times, to chuck it all in and just watch programming via DVD/Blu-ray. Once I get my projection system up and running, the reality may draw closer. I'll have to keep up with programming to know if I'll want to get the Blu-ray releases, or not.


Other than 27News (6-7 and 10pm), I watch zero locally produced programming. As can be seen, the amount of network programming viewed via local OTA is small. The amount of viewing via other sources is high. And no, I do not stream network programming via their very low-rez outlets.

Quote:
When they delayed Lost last year, they had it in HD.

For the local viewers, I hope they do that again tonight. I know they have the capability, but not all delays have been in HD. That should not be the case any longer. The ABC SD feed is still there, but with the plant change to 100% HD-SDI, I don't think they even do anything with that feed anymore.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts
Because of March Madness, WKOW news was delayed, resulting in Nightline being delayed, so I dumped WKOW (weather was done by then) and tuned in Nightline, live, in HD.


After Nightline was done, out of curiosity, I tuned back into WKOW, knowing that they would still be showing Nightline. What a surprise to discover that Nightline was SD upconverted. Huh? WKOW is a full HD-SDI plant. What are they doing still capturing the SD feed and airing that instead of the HD feed?


And one wonders if the delayed primetime shows from last night were in HD. I was working on something else and it got late, so I went to bed, forgetting to look just to see what they did, or didn't do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo /forum/post/16039394


Because of March Madness, WKOW news was delayed, resulting in Nightline being delayed, so I dumped WKOW (weather was done by then) and tuned in Nightline, live, in HD.


After Nightline was done, out of curiosity, I tuned back into WKOW, knowing that they would still be showing Nightline. What a surprise to discover that Nightline was SD upconverted. Huh? WKOW is a full HD-SDI plant. What are they doing still capturing the SD feed and airing that instead of the HD feed?


And one wonders if the delayed primetime shows from last night were in HD. I was working on something else and it got late, so I went to bed, forgetting to look just to see what they did, or didn't do.


The delayed rebroadcast of Grey's Anatomy on Charter was NOT in HD.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts
Terminator averaged 13.39 Mbps (program, no commercials) and Dollhouse averaged 11.12 Mbps.


I'm speechless
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCityBrad /forum/post/16039503


The delayed rebroadcast of Grey's Anatomy on Charter was NOT in HD.

It wasn't in HD OTA either. It also didn't start at 12:35 AM like my Dish Network program guide said that it did so I missed the last 10-15 minutes on the DVR recording.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
270 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffN9 /forum/post/16054809


It wasn't in HD OTA either. It also didn't start at 12:35 AM like my Dish Network program guide said that it did so I missed the last 10-15 minutes on the DVR recording.

Whatever charter had for its guide times worked for my DVR.. however, the Private Practice replay ended about 48 mins in... saw a green flash, and then ugly betty started. Not sure if it was a WKOW glitch or my DVR hiccuping... (which has actually never happened yet... so I'll go with the former)


off to ABC.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
They said on the news that night that Grey's would be on at approximately 12:43 am. I don't know how/why they came up with such a weird start time. I thought my DVR would compensate for the time difference but it didn't. I'll bet that more than a few people didn't record the whole episode.


This week I will set up a manual timer with a big cushion of time both before and after the listed guide start time.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffN9 /forum/post/16054809


It wasn't in HD OTA either. It also didn't start at 12:35 AM like my Dish Network program guide said that it did so I missed the last 10-15 minutes on the DVR recording.

If it wasn't in HD on the Charter WKOW-HD channel, then it wouldn't have been HD OTA either.


I still have Grey's and Practice on the computer. If you have a computer on which to play MKV (H.264) files, I can do the last 15 minutes and make it available for you. I just need to know which show you need. VideoLanClient is used to play this file. It is free.


For more details, send me a private message, or e-mail.


Or you can do what Mattymo is going to do and that is watch the low-res online version.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattymo /forum/post/16054982


saw a green flash, and then ugly betty started.

That sounds like there was a major glitch. It seems like a big section of MPEG-2 was missing.


I do not know the sequence in which WKOW played them back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo /forum/post/16055601


If it wasn't in HD on the Charter WKOW-HD channel, then it wouldn't have been HD OTA either.


I still have Grey's and Practice on the computer. If you have a computer on which to play MKV (H.264) files, I can do the last 15 minutes and make it available for you. I just need to know which show you need. VideoLanClient is used to play this file. It is free.


For more details, send me a private message, or e-mail.


Or you can do what Mattymo is going to do and that is watch the low-res online version.

Thanks for the offer but we did watch it on ABC.com. Yes it was low res. and we had to watch 3-4 Applebee commercials to find the right spot.


I thought Charter's feed would be different than OTA for some reason???
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffN9 /forum/post/16055138


They said on the news that night that Grey's would be on at approximately 12:43 am. I don't know how/why they came up with such a weird start time. I thought my DVR would compensate for the time difference but it didn't. I'll bet that more than a few people didn't record the whole episode.

Weird time because the wrapup of the games didn't end on an even 5 minutes. News is a particular length, so they knew the show start times.


The DVR would only catch it if Charter updated their database during the news and if your DVR would pick up on that.

Quote:
This week I will set up a manual timer with a big cushion of time both before and after the listed guide start time.

If you want it in HD, let me know
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
The DVR would only catch it if Charter updated their database during the news and if your DVR would pick up on that.



I have a Dish Network DVR but I assume that it works in a similar fashion. Sometimes it detects minor changes in start/stop times, sometimes it doesn't.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffN9 /forum/post/16055707


I thought Charter's feed would be different than OTA for some reason???

Charter should be given, via fiber, exactly what is being fed to their transmitter.


WKOW no longer routes SD, they are 100% an HD-SDI plant.


I know they have the ability to capture HD so I have no clue why these shows are not in HD.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,090 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffN9 /forum/post/16055804


I have a Dish Network DVR but I assume that it works in a similar fashion. Sometimes it detects minor changes in start/stop times, sometimes it doesn't.

Yep, if WKOW is providing a fiber connection to either of the DBS services, then you get to watch WKOW, even if the OTA transmitter goes off-air. Otherwise the DBS services have to use an antenna to get the signal.


Getting the DBS services to catch minute changes in a local station is probably going to be slim-to-none, unless WKOW has a hot line that they can call.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
270 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo /forum/post/16055831


Yep, if WKOW is providing a fiber connection to either of the DBS services, then you get to watch WKOW, even if the OTA transmitter goes off-air. Otherwise the DBS services have to use an antenna to get the signal.


Getting the DBS services to catch minute changes in a local station is probably going to be slim-to-none, unless WKOW has a hot line that they can call.

If anything's changed recently, I don't know, but last I knew...


Dish Network's local headend is at WKOW

DirectTV is at WISC


Now what they feed the DBS provider's racks is a different story... But I know that both of them just get us (WMSN) off (digital) air.


as for PSIP type stuff, or guide data... yeah, that's a whole different animal. at least the FCC clarified rules last year, because at some point, they were going to require complete/accurate PSIP, and the technology just isn't there yet, short of an MCO modifying the data on the fly. Now that still wouldn't fix DBS and Cable guide info.


In my opinion, if the broadcasters should be required, DBS and cable should too. I mean, what's MSO penetration in any given market, definitely over 50%, right? Why shouldn't they play by the same rules? Maybe they will... who knows.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Just to clarify I watch all of the locals OTA using the DVR's built in ATSC tuner, not the Dish Net. provided locals. I do have and pay an extra fee for Dish Net's locals but they are in SD so I do not watch them. The only reason I have them is to get the EPG info which extends to the OTA channels. The provided guide info is not always 100% accurate though, especially when things are moved around for basketball etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffN9 /forum/post/16057926


Just to clarify I watch all of the locals OTA using the DVR's built in ATSC tuner, not the Dish Net. provided locals. I do have and pay an extra fee for Dish Net's locals but they are in SD so I do not watch them. The only reason I have them is to get the EPG info which extends to the OTA channels. The provided guide info is not always 100% accurate though, especially when things are moved around for basketball etc.

With basketball the times of the program are always out of wack so just dvr longer then you don't miss anything!!!
 
3961 - 3980 of 6078 Posts
Top