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I think you mis-understood and I should have been more specific: CATV = Community Antenna TeleVision. But, with only two of you using antennas, doing your own CATV would not be cheap for just two households.

Antennas can be attached to the side of a building or to a chimney, thereby eliminating putting any nails through the roof.
 

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I think you mis-understood and I should have been more specific: CATV = Community Antenna TeleVision. But, with only two of you using antennas, doing your own CATV would not be cheap for just two households.

Antennas can be attached to the side of a building or to a chimney, thereby eliminating putting any nails through the roof.
Gotcha. You are correct CATV for two people, especially on different streets, wouldn't be feasible. They don't allow side attachments, either.
 

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Bingo! I found your problem.

Now that I ticked you off, put you in despair, and made you mad, is there anything else I can do to ruin your day?:D

Don’t give me that garbage that my antenna isn’t good enough. Look at the power the other Madison channels are broadcasting with. I’d like to know WHY WISC can’t increase power immediately now that WLUK in Green Bay has moved to channel 12.

WKOW 27 = 800. KW ERP
WMSN 47 = 440. KW ERP
WMTV 15 = 155. KW ERP
WISC 3 = 10.2 KW ERP

Besides, I don’t want some bowtie cheese grader looking antenna on my roof.
 

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WISC is a VHF station, and the power requirements and limits for VHF stations are lower. As such, WISC is actually operating slightly above the FCC power limit for its height. The station has requested a waiver to further exceed the FCC power limit.

- Trip
 
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WISC is a VHF station, and the power requirements and limits for VHF stations are lower. As such, WISC is actually operating slightly above the FCC power limit for its height. The station has requested a waiver to further exceed the FCC power limit.

- Trip
Thanks Trip, I didn't realize that VHF had a lower power restriction. Can you explain why WLUK is allowed 40. KW ERP ?
Is it only because they're 84' shorter than WISC or did they already get a waiver to increase power?

The main reason I don’t want to go with a larger antenna is because of wind damage. I didn’t mean to insult anyone with cheese graders on their roofs. :eek:
 

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The US is split into three "Zones". There's Zone I, which is the more congested areas of the northeast and the Great Lakes where power limits are lower to prevent interference, there's Zone III which surrounds the Gulf of Mexico, and then there's "everywhere else" which is in Zone II. I have a lousy map of it here:

https://www.rabbitears.info/Zone1.jpg

Zone I, as it turns out, includes Madison but not Green Bay. So WISC is held to a lower power limit than WLUK.

WISC has asked the FCC for permission to be treated as though it were in Zone II and be allowed to increase to the Zone II power limit, which for WISC's height is 46.9 kW.

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076f91733ae68701733ea4c1e50631

We shall see what happens.

- Trip
 

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Thanks Trip, I didn't realize that VHF had a lower power restriction. Can you explain why WLUK is allowed 40. KW ERP ?
Is it only because they're 84' shorter than WISC or did they already get a waiver to increase power?

The main reason I don’t want to go with a larger antenna is because of wind damage. I didn’t mean to insult anyone with cheese graders on their roofs. :eek:
My cheese grater in my kitchen is offended! :eek::D:p

But seriously, I get that you don't want a big antenna on the roof...nobody does, except a handful of us DX geeks who like to pick up stations from Alpha Centauri and beyond. :D

It is in my opinion (and is worth exactly what you paid for it) that in our modern era with apartments in far suburban and rural areas, and most people not wanting any antennas on their roofs, that the FCC standard of getting signals as "30' high, outside, and away from all objects with no building, tree, weather, or man-made interference" is unrealistic in 2020. I'd like to see that height knocked down to 10', to coincide with attics. (As an aside, when cell phone companies show you maps of their coverage, it assumes an external antenna on the phone, just like it used to be...and with you standing outdoors with no buildings, trees, etc in the way. So if they say you should have coverage but your indoor signal says one bar, or even "no signal"...that's why.)

I would like to see Zone 2 or Zone 3 power rules for VHF in Zone 1. 8 or 10 kilowatts on VHF-HI to cover a major metro area like Chicago and New York is asinine...and 40 kilowatts is decent. I remember that WWTO-DT in Ottawa, IL got a waiver to go 80 kw on Channel 10 at 1350'. You could pick that sucker up 90 miles away with no problem with a good VHF antenna in the Chicago, Rockford, Quad Cities, and Peoria-Bloomington markets, if you pointed the antenna at it. 40 kw at 1600', plus the fact that WISC is on top of the tower and on top of a hill, would do reasonably well. WHBF-TV channel 4 in the Quad Cities only has 22 kw...and they have to have a UHF repeater 10 miles away in downtown Rock Island to get the signal in the city! (By the way, WBBM in Chicago has a 15 kilowatt UHF repeater in Chicago, and it goes out farther than the 8 kw VHF signal for most folks. Just sayin'...)

I understand your frustration, Roadboss. Whatever you thought about WISC's signal moves, delays, and who was responsible, from here on out, it's all on the FCC. And I seriously would drop them an email stating that you believe power levels for VHF stations are too low, because you cannot get them. Even an antenna geek like me with a monster VHF antenna in the attic with 22 dB of gain can't get WBBM 60 miles out except at night, 3 or 4 days a week. But again, to be fair, WBBM has a station it must protect 120 miles away, so they cannot maximize at all except to get it from 8 kw to 10 kw under current rules. And that won't solve anything.
 

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WISC has asked the FCC for permission to be treated as though it were in Zone II and be allowed to increase to the Zone II power limit, which for WISC's height is 46.9 kW.

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076f91733ae68701733ea4c1e50631

We shall see what happens.

- Trip
Thanks again Trip!
At least I know now that they requested a power increase. I'm just few kW away from getting a watchable picture from them! I get their signal but the picture is pixelated with no sound. I will be composing an email to fire off to the FCC! It sucks WISC went to VHF knowing this would be a problem. The FCC certainly needs to reevaluate their restrictions after forcing channels off their higher powered UHF frequencies.
 

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Thanks again Trip!
At least I know now that they requested a power increase. I'm just few kW away from getting a watchable picture from them! I get their signal but the picture is pixelated with no sound. I will be composing an email to fire off to the FCC! It sucks WISC went to VHF knowing this would be a problem. The FCC certainly needs to reevaluate their restrictions after forcing channels off their higher powered UHF frequencies.
WISC was low VHF for ages then the digital revolution happened, we had a VHF antenna specifically to pick up WISC from Madison and WREX from Rockford before the digital revolution happened. What sucks is not using a VHF antenna to receive a VHF signal.
 

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The FCC certainly needs to reevaluate their restrictions after forcing channels off their higher powered UHF frequencies.
For clarity, the FCC did not force anyone off of UHF. Stations were to be shuffled around in UHF unless they specifically accepted a cash payment to move to VHF (or go off the air/channel share). In this case, WISC accepted a winning bid of $48.9 million to give up its UHF channel. The fact that money was being offered to move to VHF should have indicated that VHF was a less desirable place to be, if the post-6/12/2009 results for VHF stations hadn't been enough.

In short, had they not agreed to accept the money, they would have retained a home on UHF.

- Trip
 

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are you referring to WISC taking money to move to VHF?

Here is the list of winning bids for stations to either move to another band or go off the air
https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-17-314A2.pdf

note "go off the air" usually meant the station gave up their RF station to share with someone else. The more crowded the area the more money a station got. Thats why stations in LA got 150 million + in some cases
 

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Thanks again Trip!
At least I know now that they requested a power increase. I'm just few kW away from getting a watchable picture from them! I get their signal but the picture is pixelated with no sound. I will be composing an email to fire off to the FCC! It sucks WISC went to VHF knowing this would be a problem. The FCC certainly needs to reevaluate their restrictions after forcing channels off their higher powered UHF frequencies.
And to that end, please WRITE them via email or their online public comment webpage. WISC is actively asking people to write to the FCC about their reception issues with WISC, and how much you need this increase to get the station.
 

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WISC can bite me, I had Mediacom internet for a few days because wiring in my apartment is old RG-59 and they never shut off the line so I can finally get CBS thru QAM since the antenna here can’t pick it up.
 
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