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Maybe the "conversion" just maps the SDR signal to maybe 0-100 nits in HDR container, and that makes your TV to jump to brighter HDR mode? So all it is, is brighter.

If that is it, you could get the same effect with projectors by opening the iris/upping the laser power with no extra conversions.
I´ve asked the manufacturer directly about the functionality. Unfortunately, i got t a pretty brief high level response.
After all, it seems as if it´s a functionality baked into the Realtek chip.
Would be nice to know what it actually does.
 

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Audio is Goldmund (full Epilogue system), a brand very rare in the US. A lot of ridiculously priced items with that brand, and customer support that has made a lot of people weep, but some (not all, cables are ludicrously expensive and their BR readers are absurd compared to an OPPO) sound better than anything else. I'd love to find another more reasonable brand to replace it, but was unable to.

Strictly 2 channel phantom system for the front, left and right and 2m in front of the screen speakers. I watch alone and consider that a center channel or speakers behind the screen kill the sound. Professional installers will (and have on this forum, hello Nigel) vehemently disagree.
Hello Robert :p

Actually, just to remind you, I don't disagree at all with the fact that with respect to certain speakers used for the left and right audio channels the best audio performance with respect to a singular primary listening position can indeed be achieved via application of a phantom center. What I disagreed with was the blanket statement that in all circumstances with respect to all speakers and all audiovisual equipment the addition of a center channel speaker will always in all instances "kill the sound". There are most certainly instances wherein this is by no means the case.

Just wanted to make clear what it is exactly that we disagree on ;) :)

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This is an interesting paragraph, particularly the part about the reviewer. I agree that ultimately how much you'll like or dislike a product will come down to your own experience with it (both from a performance standpoint, but also from a usability standpoint), but that doesn't mean that a reviewer's take on it is not valuable. For one, there may be things that the reviewer tests that you wouldn't think of testing that may have an impact on your experience with the product down the road. Or you may be so focused on one side of the performance of the product, that you didn't consider other parts of its performance only to find they come up lacking AFTER you purchase the product. A good reviewer should look at all aspects of performance, not just focus on one particular feature.

As for the last sentence, are you referring to someone in particular with this? I could assume you mean me, which would be unfortunate. For one, I don't review ANYTHING that I sell (and I only sell two products, the Panamorph lenses and the Radiance). And I only sell those products because I am a professional calibrator and I typically am the one that fine tunes a system to fix not only calibration issues, but video processing issues in general. It makes zero sense for me NOT to sell these products because if I'm the one that does all the work on them to make your system the best it could be, why should someone else make all the profit from them without any of the work? I have already reached out to MadVR about the possibility of becoming a dealer on their product as well as it is just another solution to offer clients for fixing deficiencies in their video chain. My loyalties lie to my customer's and making sure they have all the tools they need to get the best performance from their system as possible. I am clamoring to get my hands on an Envy so I can test it to see how its performance stacks up to its only real competition so that I can make sure I have all the information needed to figure out what is the best tool for the various jobs I get. I can't do that if I don't understand all of the pros and cons of the products available so that I can inform the client so THEY can make the best decision possible with all the information.

I would also think that my opinion on a product would be quite valuable to a large number of people that were considering a product like this. For one, how many people have the level of experience I have with video processors in general? I configure and install them in a LARGE number of different systems all the time. I have been involved in the fine tuning and evaluation of tone mapping for YEARS now and have a ton of experience to draw from in terms of knowing what to look for when it comes to issues and what content is good for evaluating different aspects of it. Most people on forums are just looking for someone to say jump, regardless of who that person is and what they know. The idea that those people are only the ones that say "I have learned to exclusively trust the eyes of my own. Because I am the one who must be happy with what I paid for" would be the last person I would want to trust in the long run because MY experience with hundreds of customers and two decades of professional experience is that it is unbelievable how many people love systems that have MASSIVE issues that anyone even remotely discerning should be able to identify almost immediately. This happens ALL THE TIME. Most owners are the LAST people that will comment about deficiencies in what they bought unless they are so bad that they don't operate (and then ***** because they have to return it or deal with some type of warranty). I don't have ANY issue commenting on ANY product's issues and drawbacks. Even the products I use in my own system have a lot of shortcomings that I'd gladly point out (including the Radiance Pro). That is the reality of CE. I've been called biased because I say great things about a brand that I test or review simply because I give it a good review, only to be called biased by another set of people when I test something else later and recommend it over the previous product (I went round and round with BS accusations about this back in the DVD player days when Denon was consistently getting good reviews from me in the DVD Benchmark because they did so well in our testing, then Oppo came on the scene and did the same or better and I got crap from people for giving good reviews to a product that wasn't as expensive as the Denon). I've learned to ignore most of that because ANYONE that knows me knows I will treat any product fairly that comes my way for evaluation. I also go out of my way to try and give the manufacturer of a product as much input and feedback on issues I find during the evaluation so that things can be fixed during the review process through updates if possible. I get crap from the Sony crowd because I have issues with their projector performance, but I could show you literally PAGES AND PAGES of feedback to Sony about every little thing I found (including a LOT of stuff that wasn't in my reviews) to try and help them identify and troubleshoot issues. Does that sound like someone that has an agenda against a company??

Maybe your comment wasn't pointed at me

(last time I checked, Arrow was selling Lumagen and is now going to sell Envy), but it sure came off that way. I don't know you, have never met you and certainly haven't spent any time talking with you. I KNOW if you did know me or talked to me in person, that certainly wouldn't be the way you felt afterwards. I wouldn't have the reputation, clients or relationships I have in this industry if that was the way I conducted my business either as a consultant/calibrator or as a writer.
Not necessarily :)

What I said was that at that point in time I had decided to sell my own personal Lumagen PRO and replace it with a madVR Envy for the reasons explained at the time.

The fact of the matter is that I am very passionate about AV and hence I can often be enthusiastic when it comes to exciting new product developments :p

Someone asked me directly at the time whether I was going to be selling madVR Envys, to which I replied that I hadn't decided yet as the product was still in development and I would need to carry out further evaluation. This situation has not changed.

As it happens we've been carrying out some further direct A-B comparisons between the Lumagen PRO and the Envy following the multiple updates that have been applied to the Lumagen PRO since we did our previous comparison exercise, with some interesting results.

I'm not going to say any more just yet aside from the fact that, as I have previously stated, historically the Lumagen PRO has been hands down the best video processor in the world and the existence of the madVR Envy does not make it any less good

The fact of the matter is that both have their pros and cons. I am still in process of establishing precisely what those are with respect to the Envy and how these compare with the Lumagen.

I broke with my usual preference of focusing solely on objective scientific data and made the rare instance of offering a subjective opinion previously with respect to the Envy to convey my first impressions, due to the lack of feedback at the time. I won't be doing that again, so when I next post feedback accordingly this will be in my usual manner, including a decent array of data and scientific comparison information.

Hopefully by this time there will be additional impartial A-B comparisons as well. The more the merrier. And I am looking forward to your comparison feedback in particular Kris :)

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Not necessarily :)

What I said was that at that point in time I had decided to sell my own personal Lumagen PRO and replace it with a madVR Envy for the reasons explained at the time.

The fact of the matter is that I am very passionate about AV and hence I can often be enthusiastic when it comes to exciting new product developments :p

Someone asked me directly at the time whether I was going to be selling madVR Envys, to which I replied that I hadn't decided yet as the product was still in development and I would need to carry out further evaluation. This situation has not changed.

As it happens we've been carrying out some further direct A-B comparisons between the Lumagen and the Envy following the multiple updates that have been applied since we did our previous comparison exercise, with some interesting results.

I'm not going to say any more just yet aside from the fact that, as I have previously stated, historically the Lumagen PRO has been hands down the best video processor in the world and the existence of the madVR Envy does not make it any less good

The fact of the matter is that both have their pros and cons. I am still in process of establishing precisely what those are with respect to the Envy and how these compare with the Lumagen.

I broke with my usual preference of focusing solely on objective scientific data and made the rare instance of offering a subjective opinion previously with respect to the Envy to convey my first impressions, due to the lack of feedback at the time. I won't be doing that again, so when I next post feedback accordingly this will be in my usual manner, including a decent array of data and scientific comparison information.

Hopefully by this time there will be additional impartial A-B comparisons as well. The more the merrier. And I am looking forward to your comparison feedback in particular Kris :)

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When will you have an A-B comparison done ? Would love to see that !
 

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Hello Robert :p

Actually, just to remind you, I don't disagree at all with the fact that with respect to certain speakers used for the left and right audio channels the best audio performance with respect to a singular primary listening position can indeed be achieved via application of a phantom center. What I disagreed with was the blanket statement that in all circumstances with respect to all speakers and all audiovisual equipment the addition of a center channel speaker will always in all instances "kill the sound". There are most certainly instances wherein this is by no means the case.

Just wanted to make clear what it is exactly that we disagree on ;) :)
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Hi, always nice and informative to chat with you.

I agree with you, my blanket statement was a bit too wide.

A center channel will start to have disruptive effects in the audio imaging only if the 2 channel part of the system reaches a certain level in that domain, which is rarely the case in HT systems.

I'm sure that yours are part of the very few that do. :)
 
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When will you have an A-B comparison done ? Would love to see that !
When I posted my previous first impressions review I was focusing on the positive aspects and the future potential of the Envy, what the Envy could become if/when a number of issues that existed at the time were addressed. Obviously, given it was in its beta stage there existed numerous bugs and issues, which is what beta testing is all about, identifying and resolving these, prior to the product launch. It is obviously important in any product launch to ensure that any and all issues are resolved prior to commencing selling the product to anyone.

I mentioned specifically at the time the comparative DTM performance as compared with the Lumagen PRO. Well, the fact of the matter is that Lumagen have made a number of very significant updates and the DTM performance of the Lumagen, when making proper use of all of the various settings, is as of right now nothing short of incredible. And the Lumagen's accuracy is second to none. As such, as far as DTM is concerned the madVR Envy and the Lumagen PRO both offer absolutely stellar performance.

The madVR Envy still has, at the present time, superior upscaling. However, it does not have multiple hardware switchable inputs, as per the Lumagen PRO. My point being that, as per usual, there will be pros and cons with both products. The full extent of what these are will be revealed in time.

We have now completed our comprehensive due dilligence with respect to the madVR Envy, both with respect to the product itself and the business side of things. We have assisted by providing comprehensive feedback accordingly. In short, the Envy is a product with superb potential if managed correctly. There is still work to be done. I can now confirm that we will not be selling it, but we will be keeping a close eye on things. And we wish them all the best with the product launch :)

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Well, the fact of the matter is that Lumagen have made a number of very significant updates and the DTM performance of the Lumagen, when making proper use of all of the various settings, is as of right now nothing short of incredible.
Interesting. So let's say you set up both an Envy and Lumagen and only input the correct Max Brightness setting. Would you say the Envy has better default DTM but the Lumagen has the ability to pretty much match it if the right settings are utilized? Perhaps this makes the Envy a better choice for someone who doesn't plan to have it set up by a professional calibrator?
 

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When I posted my previous first impressions review I was focusing on the positive aspects and the future potential of the Envy, what the Envy could become if/when a number of issues that existed at the time were addressed. Obviously, given it was in its beta stage there existed numerous bugs and issues, which is what beta testing is all about, identifying and resolving these, prior to the product launch. It is obviously important in any product launch to ensure that any and all issues are resolved prior to commencing selling the product to anyone.

I mentioned specifically at the time the comparative DTM performance as compared with the Lumagen PRO. Well, the fact of the matter is that Lumagen have made a number of very significant updates and the DTM performance of the Lumagen, when making proper use of all of the various settings, is as of right now nothing short of incredible. And the Lumagen's accuracy is second to none. As such, as far as DTM is concerned the madVR Envy and the Lumagen PRO both offer absolutely stellar performance.

The madVR Envy still has, at the present time, superior upscaling. However, it does not have multiple hardware switchable inputs, as per the Lumagen PRO. My point being that, as per usual, there will be pros and cons with both products. The full extent of what these are will be revealed in time.

We have now completed our comprehensive due dilligence with respect to the madVR Envy, both with respect to the product itself and the business side of things. We have assisted by providing comprehensive feedback accordingly. In short, the Envy is a product with superb potential if managed correctly. There is still work to be done.

I can now confirm that we will not be selling it, but we will be keeping a close eye on things.

And we wish them all the best with the product launch :)

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Nigel,

I don't post on this dedicated thread usually but I do find your post above of Great-Interest and {Especially the comment in Purple} buddy.

Terry
 

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Interesting. So let's say you set up both an Envy and Lumagen and only input the correct Max Brightness setting. Would you say the Envy has better default DTM but the Lumagen has the ability to pretty much match it if the right settings are utilized? Perhaps this makes the Envy a better choice for someone who doesn't plan to have it set up by a professional calibrator?
If it's OK I am going to side-step the particular question of which of the madVR Envy's and Lumagen PRO's DTM is superior at the present time. BOTH offer stellar performance :)

The madVR Envy is without a doubt more simplistic and hence user-friendly and 'Plug n Play' to the layperson than the Lumagen PRO; and it certainly could be said that if you want the best performance from a Lumagen PRO it is advised to have a professional video calibrator set up and calibrate it for you, preferably someone who is well experienced regarding the Lumagen PRO, like @Kris Deering for example.

This should especially be done when A-B comparisons are being carried out between the madVR Envy and Lumagen PRO. Wherein, I am looking forward to when there's a number of such A-B comparisons out there.

I am also looking forward to seeing A-B comparisons being carried out by folks comparing the performance of the madVR Envy versus HPTCs using the free madVR software.

When it comes to AVSForum such things are inevitable! :p

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Can we please have a product information sheet or at the very least a post made here in this thread that informs everyone which particular GPU and CPU/motherboard are included within each of the Envy Extreme amd Envy Pro, such that people know what it is that they are actually buying? :)

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while i agree these information are usually not shared with prebuild gaming PC too.and does it even matter what they build in? the price will not change the performance will not change and you will not be able to upgrade as you pleases or build your own system to get an envy.
 

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while i agree these information are usually not shared with prebuild gaming PC too.
Well that's not actually true though is it? Not sure where you are looking at gaming PCs but in my experience the full itemized breakdown of the hardware and software components of a gaming PC are listed in the specification details such that you know exactly what you are buying. And that's precisely my point.

does it even matter what they build in? the price will not change the performance will not change and you will not be able to upgrade as you pleases or build your own system to get an envy.
Damn right it matters given the pricing.

People should know exactly what they are getting for their hard earned cash.

And not just regarding the GPU and CPU/motherboard. Is it exactly the same as a madVR HTPC with an HDMI input? If not, then how exactly does it differ?

How does the video performance compare versus a madVR HTPC?

These are all important questions that need answering such that everyone can make an informed decision regarding their purchase.

At this price point there should not be any surprises.

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Well that's not actually true though is it? Not sure where you are looking at gaming PCs but in my experience the full itemized breakdown of the hardware and software components of a gaming PC are listed in the specification details such that you know exactly what you are buying. And that's precisely my point.


Damn right it matters given the pricing.

People should know exactly what they are getting for their hard earned cash.

And not just regarding the GPU and CPU/motherboard. Is it exactly the same as a madVR HTPC with an HDMI input? If not, then how exactly does it differ?

How does the video performance compare versus a madVR HTPC?

These are all important questions that need answering such that everyone can make an informed decision regarding their purchase.

At this price point there should not be any surprises.

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I don't agree. They're selling a device that's a hardware + software package and advertising what performance and features you can expect. The underlying hardware is really no one's business nor should anyone be making a purchase decision based on that.
 

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I don't agree. They're selling a device that's a hardware + software package and advertising what performance and features you can expect. The underlying hardware is really no one's business nor should anyone be making a purchase decision based on that.

I agree we don’t need to know the hardware parts models.

On the spec sheet for each envy model it is specified what image algorithms and what settings are possible for each model.

It doesn’t matter what the the specific hardware is, you know you are getting support for certain image algorithms at certain resolutions and refresh rates and qualities.
 

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I agree they are selling a solution, not a stack of hardware components - so the details doesn´t matter.
Anybody interested in what motherboard is actually build into a Trinnov? I´am not.

The problem is see, however: the hardware (especially the GPU) used is getting outdated before the actual launch date.
So there´s a potential risk that the free madVR software with an up-to-date GPU can outperform a >10KEU device. (i know, there are still other unique selling points in favor for the Envy)
 

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I am also looking forward to seeing A-B comparisons being carried out by folks comparing the performance of the madVR Envy versus HPTCs using the free madVR software
Are you saying that you haven't done this despite you got an Envy ? That would be actually quite disappointing for me because it ignores my first principal question that I would exspect a good review to start with. Let me tell you that potential buyers of the Envy are well aware of what a PC based madVR software can do but they want a much easier solution and try to avoid the usual Windows PC problems. ;)

So the first question is quite simple:
Can you get the same performance (upscaling, DTM) like you get with the madVR software on a PC that is recommended for madVR based playback (GPU with full D3D9 / PS3.0 hardware support) ?


This leads then to the second question:
What are the specific benefits and general differences between the 2 models ? IMO potential buyers are not interested to know what model of graphic card are built in but first they want to know what the practical advantages are. Different hardware is just the simple and very obvious reason for performance differences.

Then the potential customers want to know what alternatives are on the market. So comparisons of Envy vs Lumagen Radiance Pro vs JVC FA become then highly interesting for potential buyers once the first 2 questions have been answered. So the third fundamental question is:
What are the specific benefits and general differences between those alternatives ? At that point potential buyers will then already compare specific models because they have already found answers to the first 2 questions.

Since I do not primarily rely on the opinion of others but rather trust the eyes of my own I have adressed these questions myself. I think I could answer the first one by now. The second question is due and I plan to compare Gemini Man (4K, HDR, 60p) on both models and a Windows PC. Third question I had also started to address. However the last question becomes likely a highly difficult matter to discuss since there are too much financial interests and consequently bias involved. Furthermore these products and software are still continously modified which makes it difficult to find final and definitive answers.
 

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Then the potential customers want to know what alternatives are on the market. So comparisons of Envy vs Lumagen Radiance Pro vs JVC FA become then highly interesting for potential buyers once the first 2 questions have been answered.
For me it´s just the Envy and the Lumagen to compare.
Adding the JVC FA would reduce it just to the one feature "DTM" and would also limit the projector choice to just the few models from JVC.
That would be a too narrow scope for my taste.
 

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I don't agree. They're selling a device that's a hardware + software package and advertising what performance and features you can expect. The underlying hardware is really no one's business nor should anyone be making a purchase decision based on that.
I agree we don’t need to know the hardware parts models.

On the spec sheet for each envy model it is specified what image algorithms and what settings are possible for each model.

It doesn’t matter what the the specific hardware is, you know you are getting support for certain image algorithms at certain resolutions and refresh rates and qualities.
I agree 100% that the brand and model of hardware inside the Envy is 100% irrelevant. :)

When you buy a gaming PC, you buy a standard hardware platform, with standard components, with a standard OS. Every single component is available at retail price from the market.

So it makes sense to know the specs of each component, so see if they add up or if you're being gouged. There is a small amount of time, skill and knowledge involved in the selection, assembly and installation of the components, but just about zero R&D involved from the PC makers/resellers.

With a Gaming PC, the specs are relevant because some of the third party software / games to be used with it have minimum / recommended specs, and the specs directly impact the performance (game frame rates, etc).

With the Envy, first of all there is nothing standard. Some of the most important components (such as the HDMI 2.0 input board with HDCP 2.2 and drivers) are exclusive to Envy, the OS/software combo that make the Envy a completely different proposition than a HTPC with madVR is custom and not available for sale, and the amount of R&D is counted in years. That has a lot more value than the cost of each individual component on the market. Anyone unable to see this doesn't understand the product or its value.

Second, there is no user-purchased software (such as games) to be played on the Envy, so there is no minimal/recommended configuration that has to be met like on a gaming PC.

Would anyone who is an actual buyer or potential buyer be interested in knowing the motherboard and CPU used in a Trinnov? Would they even find the information relevant?

Most importantly, why would the manufacturer even communicate this?

As an Envy beta tester, I've asked many questions to Ric and Mathias, but I've certainly never asked what motherboard and CPU or memory they were using in the Envy.

Not because I wouldn't understand the answer, I've been building my own PCs for the last 30 years or so, including my madVR HTPC, so I have both knowledge and skill in PC building, but simply because I have zero interest in this.

For me, and I suspect for many actual users and potential users of the Envy, the value of the product isn't in the added cost of its parts, it's in the know-how and attention to detail that is put into making the hardware work perfectly in sync with the software, both the tuned OS and madVR, with any source. This is something that even my HTPC with madVR can't do.

It's very similar to MacOS/iOS products. The performance and stability increases because the software is developped on a specific, known, carefully chosen hardware base, that delivers not only performance but stability and predictability (again, something that my HTPC is unable to do, and one of the main reasons why I'm steering away from it), not to mention near-silence operation.

Another reason why the motherboard and CPU brand and model are irrelevant is because unlike components that are specific to Envy, such as the HDMI input board, these are easily replaceable as long as they meet the internal specs. As availability and price changes, why would madVR publish these and tie themselves to the least important part of the package? The specs are very clear about the GPU power involved in each model, those with enough knowledge can easily deduct the brand and GPU model, but what matters is which algo and feature each Envy model can deliver thanks to the power packed in each model. That's in the specs. The rest is absolutely irrelevant.

By the way, I have seen posts a while ago that were so ridiculously positive and lacked even the minimal amount of objectivity that I wondered if the posters had any agenda or reasons for waxing such unrestrained lyricals that way, based on a few extreme demos or poorly mastered titles that are not representative of 99% of actual content. If the same posters were to post suddenly ridiculously negative comments, I would give them the same weight in the discussion, i.e. not much. Though it would make me smile, because it would look a lot like revenge porn: I did enjoy having sex with you at the time, but now that you don't want me anymore, you're a *****. :)

My advice is to never trust someone who only pushes positives, and to never trust someone who only pushes negatives, especially if they are experienced, knowledgable and competent. Either way, they likely have an agenda. And if these extreme comments come from the same person, just a few weeks/months apart, then be extra cautious. :)

I'm looking forward to the NDA being lifted for us beta testers, so that feedback from a bunch of actual, long-term users, who have no agenda regarding selling the product or its competition, can offer objective information based on a variety of actual uses with everyday content, and not just a few extreme demos or poorly mastered titles.

I agree that reading A/B/C comparisons from independent, experienced, knowledgeable and trustworthy reviewers and enthusiasts would be great, as there is room for the HD Fury LLDV hack, the JVC DTM, the Radiance Pro and the Envy, as well as for madVR on a HTPC. Any reviewer / enthusiast / reseller delivering a "review" that would demolish one of these solutions at the benefit of another without taking the different budgets, uses and needs into account would immediately discredit themselves, and would hopefully be corrected by the community.

Not that I am necessarily competent (or possibly objective enough, being a long-term madVR and HDFury fan) to do so, but I wish I had the time, the resources and the inclination to produce such a balanced comparison, because the idea is to help users to make the right choice for them, not for the users to make the right choice for the reviewer/reseller :rolleyes:.

One or more of these solutions will fill the needs (and empty the wallet!) of each user, and any of these produces results that are so much better than what we could dream of just a couple of years ago that it's simply ridiculous to make one sound like it's appallingly bad and that you're slumming it if you're using it.

Just like there are projectors at different price points, I don't think they are for the same users and the same market, and therefore saying that one is miles better than the others is simply ridiculous. I love my rs2000, but I wouldn't say that an rs1000 is crap or that I wouldn't take an rs3000 if I was offered one. I love my X8500H, but my X5200W was already pretty good (I'd have kept it longer if it had supported DTS:X), and I wouldn't say no if someone wanted to give me a Trinnov.

I just get what is right for my needs - and what I can justify from a budget point of view - but I don't think it's necessarily the best choice for everyone.

What counts is to find the best tool for the job, and what's right for your needs.

EDIT: After receiving a PM and a (very pleasant) phone call from two different members, I think I should clarify that I didn't have anyone specifically in mind when writing the above. Quite a few people have posted in the past overly positive feedback based on limited content, and none of them has (yet) posted ridiculously negative feedback on the Envy, so my above post should be read as general and hypothetical, or at most pre-emptive. :)
 

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Well that's not actually true though is it? Not sure where you are looking at gaming PCs but in my experience the full itemized breakdown of the hardware and software components of a gaming PC are listed in the specification details such that you know exactly what you are buying. And that's precisely my point.
i don't look at pre made PC at all.
but this is usually what i see when someone forces a CM into my face or ask me if that "ok" PC:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/NVIDIA-HDD-Windows-GeForce-240GB-bit-CYBERPOWERPC-RTX-16GB-w-AMD-3700X-Home-1TB-10-Ryzen-6GB-Memory-GMA6600WST-SSD-2060-Master-PC-Gamer-7-3-6GHz-WiFi/317244490


BTW. what is the exact hardware in the Lumagen? what FPGA is in that system?
 

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I can now confirm that we will not be selling it, but we will be keeping a close eye on things. And we wish them all the best with the product launch :)

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Since a number of people have queried this I feel the need to explain. We have not in any regard fallen out with @madshi nor anyone else at madVR.

The primary reason why we have decided we won't be selling the Envy is because there is still work to be done both with respect to the product and the business side of things.

We genuinely want the madVR Envy to succeed and have spent a very considerable amount time and resources in doing what we can to assist and facilitate this.

The reason why I have asked the above questions is because currently there is a lack of this important information regarding what the madVR Envy actually is and what it is not which will without a doubt result in some individuals misunderstanding what it is exactly that they are purchasing, and not react in a positive way subsequently when they subsequently discover it is not what they thought it was.

Specifically, a lot of people believe that the madVR Envy is essentially 'madVR in a box with an HDMI input' and as such is essentially the same as a madVR HTPC but without being a source and with an HDMI input.

I also think a lot of people will be expecting the video performance of the madVR Envy Extreme to be at least as good as a high-end madVR HTPC.

I think it is important that everyone understands what it is exactly they are buying, especially given the pricing.

There should not be any surprises; and as such, people should be making a properly informed decision regarding their purchase, and hence have accurate/realistic expectations.

That is all.

I think that at this stage there needs to be more information than is currently provided by the madVR Envy Website

Furthermore, we have by no means ruled out selling the madVR Envy in the future if or when the work that needs to be done regarding the R&D is completed and there is a solidified foundation with respect to the business side of things.

As previously mentioned, we wish them all the best with the product launch :)

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