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ABSOLUTE ULTIMATE AV
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@ARROW-AV
Like I wrote I have seen very significant differences depending what player was used to feed the Envy. So this may already be the reason to explain this ;):)
Imagine a person who just uses for the Envy a player that prepares the signal the wrong way and compares this then to a HTPC - this person might jump easily to wrong conclusions.
You're right, however that does not apply here because the people involved are not incompetant amateurs. And the fact they are not incompetant amateurs is the very reason why all parties concerned have been provided with a madVR Envy during the beta development phase.

With respect to our comparisons source devices include the flagship $2,449 Pioneer UDP-LX800, OPPO 205, OPPO 203, and Kaleidescape Strato, all set to the optimum settings for outputting to the madVR Envy.

Nobody is jumping to the wrong conclusions. But if you want to believe that they are, then please by all means go right ahead. I am done here.

Unsubscribed.

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Mori, this topic has not gone in the wrong direction. I made a statement that is fact. No need to elaborate. Nigel has been kind enough to acknowledge he will no longer contribute to this thread. He may decide to make that public himself. Best to let this thread fade away with no further postings to prevent others sitting in the sideline from joining in keeping this going. Thank you.
 

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@ARROW-AV
Thank you for the additional information.
@Alan Gouger
With "wrong direction" I have expressed my view that the discussion IMO became rather a personal thing between Manni and Arrow-AV. If you think there is no need to elaborate then please accept that also this is just another opinion to me :cool:
 

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You're right, however that does not apply here because the people involved are not incompetant amateurs. And the fact they are not incompetant amateurs is the very reason why all parties concerned have been provided with a madVR Envy during the beta development phase.



With respect to our comparisons source devices include the flagship $2,449 Pioneer UDP-LX800, OPPO 205, OPPO 203, and Kaleidescape Strato, all set to the optimum settings for outputting to the madVR Envy.



Nobody is jumping to the wrong conclusions. But if you want to believe that they are, then please by all means go right ahead. I am done here.



Unsubscribed.



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IMO people in the beta program should provide feedback to MadVR to make the unit work 100%. Not trashing it here, because its not a finished product yet.

Lähetetty minun LM-G710 laitteesta Tapatalkilla
 

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There has not been any trashing, there was a statement made Mardvr HTPC delivers a better picture than stand alone processors. Madvr HTPC will always have the edge despite advancements regarding a stand alone. That has been confirmed in this thread by the developer. Depending on what VP is used, depending on what media player is used, and their settings the gap can be narrowed. It is just nature of the beast.
 

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Gentlemen,
While it's sad to see energy spent on justifying oneself, I want to reassure all the frequent and passionate posters in this thread that many readers rely on your expertise and explanations. I am deeply convinced that were this face to face, sharing and confronting observations live, a lot of the sidetracking wouldn't happen, we are just dealing with the consequences of such a medium. Do not lose sight of the appreciation many of us have for the time spent by some of you for their detailed reports.
In an effort to see the thread continue to benefit from you guys, here are a few things I would love to be able to read in this thread:
1/ it's clearly established that purely on a theoretical level an HTPC is at an advantage for delivering the best result. What are the tools we have to measure how much better that experience is compared to what an Envy or Lumagen can provide? How can it be conveyed? Is this something you can only see live or that can be demonstrated with pictures?...
2/ it's also clearly established that the nature of the source will play a big role. Let's get that list going of the best settings, best players out there, that would decrease the gap of performance between an HTPC and an Envy! On that particular front, I'd love to see "the MadVR company" become more vocal on this as this will surely be very important for their buyers.

Personally I'm following this thread to understand how a more modest setup would benefit from an Envy:
- interested in Pro only, Extreme is out of my budget
- I want to make AR switching seamless
- I want better upscaling that what a JVC PJ can provide: while I don't own one yet, I have seen snapshots of how bad it can be, and on this topic pictures convinced me of the issues. Also going from UHD to native DCI resolution has its own challenges.
- I don't want to have to figure out which DTM setting to choose on a JVC NXx while watching a movie
- I want to know which players to invest in and how to configure them best to fully benefit from a 6k$ VP purchase
I will be watching on a 2.35:1 110" wide screen, meaning pixels will be 0.68mm wide and 0.55mm high when using a DCR lens, that will be tiny seen from 10'6"!

Thanks again to the contributors of this forum.
 

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There has not been any trashing, there was a statement made Mardvr HTPC delivers a better picture than stand alone processors. Madvr HTPC will always have the edge despite advancements regarding a stand alone. That has been confirmed in this thread by the developer. Depending on what VP is used, depending on what media player is used, and their settings the gap can be narrowed. It is just nature of the beast.
Yes, I agree with the edge, but edge and "significantly superior video performance" are IMO different things. So far it has been purely theoretical, with no info how the difference can or could be seen. I think that saying "significantly superior video performance" needs some details and maybe proof about how the superiority manifests.

That also means that all the Lumagen theaters have "significantly worse video performance", but I believe there are a lot of happy Lumagen owners too, so it can't mean like the Envy and Lumagen are missing all the colors etc. :rolleyes:
 

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A lot of energy indeed. I know ARROW AV (Nigel) will go to the nth degree in testing - while remaining as impartial and as honest as possible.

I'm not a video expert but it does make sense that the HTPC application would be better in raw picture quality currently. Perhaps more tweaking involved and with the amount of people saying so, there's a reasonable case for it to be so.

I guess it'll all come out in the wash.
 

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Hello,

As I have followed this dedicated thread continuously to just maybe in the future decide to add either the Lumagen Pro or the still in development phase madvr ENVY

This is what I see from my end as a layman and certainly not a dealer or a professional A/V guy.
I think I should also say the following so no one gets up-set.
I don't have any video processor, yet, so below is what's important to me and I would think more than likely anyone else in the USA market.

When I go to GOOGLE and type in Lumagen Pro Processor where to purchase
Below is immediately what I see ...........
https://www.avprostore.com/category-s/1823.htm







When I go to GOOGLE and type in "MadVR ENVY where to purchase"

Below is immediately what I see ...........
madVR ENVY : Anticipation thread!

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03mVDJTsfdhP-QRbIKFIrfaXFAkBA:1592232760842&ei=OIvnXprkMuuHwbkPptaU-AQ&q=MadVR+ENVY+where+to+purchase&oq=MadVR+ENVY+where+to+purchase&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDDoECAAQQzoFCAAQsQM6AggAOgYIABAHEB46CAgAEAgQBxAeOgoIABAIEAcQChAeUKAvWPV0YNSVAWgBcAF4AIABtwGIAfoMkgEEMC4xMpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXo&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwia4O-giYTqAhXrQzABHSYrBU8Q4dUDCAw

Guys, what I want to see is something similar to a legitimate company A/V business where you can purchase the madVR ENVY and have support after the sale in the USA.

It would be very-very nice to have a Post on this dedicated thread that covers what I have just said above.
And no Beating-around-the-Bush just a Straight-Forward reply from the Company Owners and not AVS members with their opinions.

I think all of us would wish to see in Black & White at this point in time the above ^^^

Looking forward to the information,
Terry
 

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There’s a simple solution to the Envy vs madVR discussion; add an easy to use media player feature on the Envy, case closed... ;)


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I don't agree. They're selling a device that's a hardware + software package and advertising what performance and features you can expect. The underlying hardware is really no one's business nor should anyone be making a purchase decision based on that.
I think it's not a common case for any product you buy, everyone knows that madVR free software exists and can be used on any build PC and therefore it is a good point to know what is under hood in MadVR, simply if madVR were s completely new product and free copy of it never existed I would agree then that this would be no one business, but here we have different situation, every client wants to know what he will be getting if comparing to his HTPC setup.

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Most streamers (including the Shield 2019) are poor mediaplayers. I find the picture of the Shield playing the same titles through Kodi washed-out compared to what I see with the HTPC and the Oppo, though I haven't done any in-depth testing as I never intended to use the Shield as a mediaplayer. I'm only interested in it as a streamer (hopefully temporarily, because it's not the most stable one). Don't quote me on this though, it could be poor settings, I did install Kodi and I liked some of the skins, mostly because some of them supported my MyMovies categories, I ran some quick tests but I didn't like what I saw, so as I said I wouldn't use one as a serious mediaplayer.

The HTPC or the Oppo 203 clone are significantly better.
I have Oppo 203, Zidoo x9s, Nvidia Shield 4k 2019 and HTPC with madVR. The only reason that you couldn't get Nvidia setup with Kodi properly is you have done something wrong. I've been doing tests one to one comparison of Shield Kodi vs Oppo 203 usings its network feature playing files from my NAS and it was absolutely one to one quality.
 
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Bickering removed. Discuss the topic and not each other.

Questions or comments? PM me. Don't post those here as I likely won't see them.
 

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Yes, I agree with the edge, but edge and "significantly superior video performance" are IMO different things. So far it has been purely theoretical, with no info how the difference can or could be seen. I think that saying "significantly superior video performance" needs some details and maybe proof about how the superiority manifests.



That also means that all the Lumagen theaters have "significantly worse video performance", but I believe there are a lot of happy Lumagen owners too, so it can't mean like the Envy and Lumagen are missing all the colors etc. :rolleyes:
Well at least three people all saying the same thing so it’s probably true. There will be more A-B comparisons.

No, this does not mean that exactly same applies to the Lumagen. It has already been acknowledged in this thread that there are multiple reasons why a high-end madVR HTPC has superior video performance versus the Envy, some of which apply only to the Envy. For example, there is only a mid-range GPU in the Envy Extreme.

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madshi, I presume you are already aware of this, but if not, are you aware the HP ( Hewlit-Packard) have a line of printers and laptops also named Envy? Are you concerned about any brand confusion or trademark problems? I know they are completely different products, but just thought i'd give you a heads up if you were unaware of the HP product. https://www.jbhifi.com.au/products/hp-envy-13-aq1025tu-13-3-full-hd-laptop-256gb
 

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madshi, I presume you are already aware of this, but if not, are you aware the HP ( Hewlit-Packard) have a line of printers and laptops also named Envy? Are you concerned about any brand confusion or trademark problems? I know they are completely different products, but just thought i'd give you a heads up if you were unaware of the HP product. https://www.jbhifi.com.au/products/hp-envy-13-aq1025tu-13-3-full-hd-laptop-256gb
And remember, the Roman Catholic Church has dibs on Avarice and Greed, so those are taken as well...
 

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No, this does not mean that exactly same applies to the Lumagen. It has already been acknowledged in this thread that there are multiple reasons why a high-end madVR HTPC has superior video performance versus the Envy, some of which apply only to the Envy. For example, there is only a mid-range GPU in the Envy Extreme.

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The main difference discussed here is that the Envy doesn't have a direct hold of the source content, it has to travel through HDMI. That applies also to Lumagen and all external video processors.
 

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madshi, I presume you are already aware of this, but if not, are you aware the HP ( Hewlit-Packard) have a line of printers and laptops also named Envy? Are you concerned about any brand confusion or trademark problems? I know they are completely different products, but just thought i'd give you a heads up if you were unaware of the HP product. https://www.jbhifi.com.au/products/hp-envy-13-aq1025tu-13-3-full-hd-laptop-256gb
ShadowBoy,

I had also wondered about the name thing but figured those guys had that all worked-out with Hewlett Packard. :eek: :eek: :eek:


You are correct I own the HP ENVY and love it ..............








Terry
 

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The main difference discussed here is that the Envy doesn't have a direct hold of the source content, it has to travel through HDMI. That applies also to Lumagen and all external video processors.
Yes, that’s one of the numerous reasons why the madVR Envy has inferior video perfromance versus a high-end madVR HTPC. But it’s not the only reason. There are multiple reasons. And some apply only to the Envy. For example, there is only a mid-range GPU in the Envy Extreme. A high-end madVR HTPC with Nvidia RTX Titan or 2080 Ti will outperform it for this reason alone. Then add to this the fact the Envy is not the source, etc etc… and it’s ‘Game Over’. Upscaling of chroma subsampling from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 does not explain the significant difference in video performance that at least 3 people are experiencing. A GPU hardware difference does.



Speaking of which, why is there only a mid-range GPU in the Envy Extreme? For the crazy high pricing they are charging I was expecting the GPU to be at least the 2080ti. Something is seriously wrong with that situation. But anyway.



No thanks. I will be sticking with my Lumagen. I want the bullet proof hardware switchable inputs which the Envy does not have (virtual switching over HDMI using a single HDMI input is a nightmare waiting to happen) plus all of its other advantages

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JVC RS4500 | ST130 G4 135" | MRX 720 | MC303 MC152 | B&W 802D3, HTM1D3, 805D3, 702S2 | 4x15 IB Subs
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Well at least three people all saying the same thing so it’s probably true. There will be more A-B comparisons.

No, this does not mean that exactly same applies to the Lumagen. It has already been acknowledged in this thread that there are multiple reasons why a high-end madVR HTPC has superior video performance versus the Envy, some of which apply only to the Envy. For example, there is only a mid-range GPU in the Envy Extreme.
No, if you were following the discussion, it has nothing to do with which video card is in the ENVY. It's about the input source and nothing else. So it directly applies to Lumagen the same way. I'd rather not expand on all that's already been said so I suggest you go back a couple pages and re-read what was stated by madshi on the subject. The comparisons are purely the top end ENVY vs a top end HTPC all using the same settings. It's all about the input vs the source direct.
 
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