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Just for clarification: I did not mean to imply one could only use the K10-A just that ours wasn't available at the moment so we decided to wait until we get it back. It is just that much easier to work with than other solutions.

So my laziness aside for lamp-based projectors and with some extra time and care applied to get it all up and running with regard to positioning, profiling and patch sets the i1 Pro2 with an i1 Display Pro can be a very powerful and relatively low cost combination and what is even better they are supported in all of the usual software solutions which unfortunately cannot be said for the Discus.
 

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So my laziness aside for lamp-based projectors and with some extra time and care applied to get it all up and running with regard to positioning, profiling and patch sets the i1 Pro2 with an i1 Display Pro can be a very powerful and relatively low cost combination and what is even better they are supported in all of the usual software solutions which unfortunately cannot be said for the Discus.
In fact I have developed a solution that means a faster set-up with the i1d3/discus and no need to profile to the i1pro2 every time (when calibrating the same PJ). But that's definitely off topic and not applicable to every set-up (though it works fantastically well here). I'll explain this in my upcoming write-up, when/if I find the time to do so. :)
 

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I thought you don’t want to perform multi-hour 3DLUTs due to bulb/meter stability and shift over time that will ultimately result in a less accurate 3DLUT.
First of all some software take bulb/meter drift into account, so that's a non issue with the right tool.

However, if you give at least 45 minute warm-up time to your PJ and meters before calibration and if you have A/C in your room, there is no need for drift patches, at least with the JVCs. This is only an issue in a non A/C room where the temp room keeps going up (even more when using high lamp), which impacts on the readings. The issue with projectors is more the lamp/panel drift within 100-200 hours. If you don't calibrate at least every 200 hours, there is no need to aim for perfection as it won't last for very long...

Second as I said my current custom patch set (less than 4K points) takes just above one hour to get results as good as a 21-point 3D LUT (10K points). So definitely no need to spend multi-hours to get excellent results (much better than a smaller LUT after an Autocal, which is what I used to do before Envy, as I needed an as good as possible baseline for my non-HTPC sources).

Finally, this is mostly off topic here :)
 

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Hey guys. How do you by pass the Envy when hooking up a game system?
Ps4/Xbox to Marantz input
Marantz output to Envy
Envy to TV.
Thanks
 

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Not an owner, but I believe you would want to run a second HDMI cable from the Envy bypass HDMI output to your display. Or just use another output from your AVP and bypass the Envy completely.
 

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Not an owner, but I believe you would want to run a second HDMI cable from the Envy bypass HDMI output to your display. Or just use another output from your AVP and bypass the Envy completely.
Yep. The downside with the bypass is, that you don´t get any screen adjustments as well, so you might end up with a picture that doesn´t fit your screen.
But with a TV (as in the setup in question), that shouldn´t be an issue.
 

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madshi did you think about support for 2 PJ for more brightness and advanced math for "more" CR/even smoother gradation. with lineup support ETC.

3080 with 2 HDMI are pretty common.
 

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The tricky part is to have the Nvidia GPU output different frames to 2 different projectors with 100% identical timing. E.g. if projector A shows a frame 10ms later than projector B, that would look very bad. We'd need perfectly synced output of 2 different images to 2 different projectors. Nvidia supports that with their "Mosaic" feature, but this feature is only available with Quadro cards.
 

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isn't the clock of the output fixed when only one GPU is used i will do a very low end test later. if the desktop is extended i would assume that they are in sync.

if they are not 100 % in sync then this is pointless.

after a short google it looks to me like mosaic was made for more then one GPU.
 

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I don't know for sure, but I don't think they are in sync. After all, you can use different refresh rates, bitdepths and color formats when desktop is extended, so I expect the various displays of an extended desktop to be driven completely separately. But if you find that they're driven perfectly in sync (if same formats are used) that would be very welcome news to me, of course! Might be hard to test (properly), though?
 

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my test idea is currently checking clock deviations and such and we already know windows 10 "can't" be run at a different refresh rate everything is "always" run at the same composition rate VRR is an exception so has a new windows WDDM makes big improvements to this issue: future... New Windows Update Improves Mixed-Hz Multimonitor — With One Caveat
the next thing is that we kinda know that sync doesn't change from changing the bit deep.

next on the other hand gaming on 3 displays is pretty normal and they have to be in at least in sync else there would be tearing the problem here is it's not that important if they run 3 ms apart.

nvidia mosaic is also know as SLI mosaic and this is a qoute from there page:
SEAMLESS IMAGE¹
See a flawless image without any tearing artifacts from a fully synchronized display environment across more than one card.

and then there is AMD which can do edge blending stuff with consumer GPU they have to be in "perfect" sync for this or else there would be at least tearing.

edit:
Might be hard to test (properly), though?
if you have two identical PJ with identical settings it would be pretty easy.
just make sure they are over lapping at least kinda and now you run a full screen pattern generator on an extended windows desktop.
if they show strange artifacts where they overlap then you can bet they are not in sync.
 

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I don't know for sure, but I don't think they are in sync. After all, you can use different refresh rates, bitdepths and color formats when desktop is extended, so I expect the various displays of an extended desktop to be driven completely separately. But if you find that they're driven perfectly in sync (if same formats are used) that would be very welcome news to me, of course! Might be hard to test (properly), though?
maybe you could test this with a camera and an app. Duplicate displays then run an app that just increments a number and blasts that to both displays as fast as it can. or even time it at 1ms delays. Snap some photos of each and see if they always show the same number. If that's not good enough you could make a video out of this and play the video back using hardware decoding should be same effect right?
 

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For me the benefit of a larger patch set is more with gamut (especially when using profile off with the JVCs) than with greyscale.

Custom patch sets of the same size provide a more significant benefit than a standard linear patch set. For example, a well-designed custom set of 5K points or less would give similar or better results to a standard 21^3 10K patch set.

The superior granularity of Envy with 65^3 point simply means that there is no hardware limitation in ordre to get the best results.

Of course, if you get a max dE unde 0.5 in a large verification patch (at least 1K points, up to 5K), there is no need to spend more time as long as there are no other artefacts, especially banding or posterisation that are not measurable with dEs.

You don’t need a K10A to use large patch sets. I use a Discus or an i1d3/C6 trained to an i1pro2 and I get 1,000 points read in about 15 minutes with the C6, so a 21^3 is done in about 3 hours and an optimized set set that gives similar results with under 4K points is done in a bit more than one hour. Of course you need to optimise settings and positioning to get these results, but there is no loss of accuracy.

The results could be improved with a larger patch set by the way, so depending on the display there is a benefit with over 3K points, especially if you try to improve visual artefacts such as posterisation that are frequent with smaller LUTs using the PJ CMS when the native gamut doesn’t fully cover the target, and not just raw dEs results that don’t tell the whole story.

I plan to write about this if I find the time once the new JVC f/w is out and everyone can use profile off with the filter and large LUTs.
I know this is not a calibration thread, but since this is ongoing now, I have a quick question if you don't mind. I was considering the K10A over my i1d3 trained/profiled. Earlier discussions suggested the i1d3 is lacking accuracy in the blue laser spectrum. So considering the Envy can do 65 point 3Dlut calibration, how does this factor in? I guess my point is , if the Envy is capable of this level of accuracy, is the i1d3 the Achilles heel of accuracy in this case or would the K10A simply be just faster?

I didn't realize the Envy was this level of accuracy to be honest, from what was posted thus far, I understood the Lumagen 17 point 3Dlut was still the king, apparently not. I do agree there is a law of diminishing returns as well, in fact, as I understand, you can get 80-85% accuracy with a basic calibration. But considering one of the selling points, and the reason I purchased the Lumagen was in fact this level of accuracy, it's good to know there is even a more finite level available using the Envy. 17 points to 65 points is a huge leap ahead, enthusiasts who do want every ounce of accuracy will certainly appreciate this feature.
 

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FWIW, Envy actually supports 256^3 points, which basically means that with 8 bit video, every possible 8 bit RGB color value has its own dedicated 3DLUT point. However, all the calibration applications are currently limited to max 65^3, AFAIK. I think some even calculate in lower than 65^3 resolution and then interpolate up to 65^3. But I don't know for sure. It's possible some internally calculate in 65^3. Does anybody know?

What I don't know is how much benefit you get with the increased number of points. There will be a law of diminishing returns for sure. Might be worth an experiment. But I don't (currently) have a good enough meter to test that.
 

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displaycal (argyllCMS to be more precisely)can do 256³ out of the box. the calculation just takes like an 1 hour. the commandline argument addition is needed for collink. this is all out of memory.

and they are always this big but usually made from a 64³ or 65³ can't remember which only takes 5 mins but the end result is again a ~100mb 3D LUT.
 
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