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aka jfinnie
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What about a second HDMI out with a bypass option? This way, you can´t do the comparison on one screen, but at least you could place two displays side-by-side.
I thought it already has a bypass HDMI out which sounds like it is located on the input card? No idea if that can be active at the same time as the main HDMI out from the graphics card though.
 

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@madshi When you have the db noise levels and BTU emission from the Base model and Pro model, please post. If unable to state details, then are the fans high quality, large and slow moving, which create very low db levels? Is the heat output levels mild, moderate or fairly high? In other words, can these units be placed inside a theater without disrupting the theater environment. Thank you.



How about Base model: Envy Cinema

Pro model: Envy Pro Cinema


This is also my biggest question
 

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I must say I find your logic hard to follow. The Envy is going to have one of those class of graphics cards you don't want to add, plus an extra CPU and power supply / storage etc. The Envy sounds like it is going to be a good product, but even then there aren't magical AI neural net pixies making the BTU from the Envy disappear :) , so net effect will have to be more combined airflow in your installation to move the increased heat, from the Envy added to your existing HTPC setup.
As far as i understand (might be wrong though), bumper doesn´t want to replace the 1050 with a bigger card, because the PC needs to run 24x7 because of some automation software that is running on it and he doesn´t want to have its higher power consumption.
However, a bigger GPU shouldn´t be an issue in such a setup since power consumption only goes up if the GPU is challenged during media playback. If no media playback is running, the GPU is not used at all and in that case it doesn´t consume more energy than the 1050 (perhaps a bit more).
 

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I thought it already has a bypass HDMI out which sounds like it is located on the input card? No idea if that can be active at the same time as the main HDMI out from the graphics card though.
Ah OK, then is missed that piece of information.
But even if not, a simple HDMI Splitter in front of the Envy could solve the side-by-side comparison issue.
 

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I must say I find your logic hard to follow. The Envy is going to have one of those class of graphics cards you don't want to add, plus an extra CPU and power supply / storage etc. The Envy sounds like it is going to be a good product, but even then there aren't magical AI neural net pixies making the BTU from the Envy disappear :) , so net effect will have to be more combined airflow in your installation to move the increased heat, from the Envy added to your existing HTPC setup. @madshi has already said this is a conventional (forced air) cooling setup.

Of course if you just don't want to be involved with HTPC meddling any more then that is a great reason to use an Envy (or another external solution) - but it sounds like you're there already and keeping the HTPC in service for the automation and playback, so I really struggle to understand the objection to sticking a bigger GFX card in it.

But anyway, best of luck with whatever you go for.
Since the HTPC runs 24/7 for automation tasks, I designed it with low power consumption hardware. The Envy would only consume power when watching a movie and would be switched off when not watching a movie. The HTPC will be powered on always. I don't want an overpowerd Graphics card using electricity while not using its power for 95% of the day. Same goes for the CPU. But when watching a movie, I turn on Amps, a Projector and what have you, which all consume lots of power but only for the remainder of the movie. Does that make sense?
I am also running Windows 7 and not 10 because I don't like W10 at all and the mobo is not even on the latest PCI standard so the better GPU would suffer in that respect as well. The HTPC however does do all of its tasks superb 24/7 without too much of power consumption and plenty of speed for its use case.

I don't mind adding an Envy to the system as long as the net results are visible and much better. And that was my original question.
 

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aka jfinnie
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As far as i understand (might be wrong though), bumper doesn´t want to replace the 1050 with a bigger card, because the PC needs to run 24x7 because of some automation software that is running on it and he doesn´t want to have its higher power consumption.
However, a bigger GPU shouldn´t be an issue in such a setup since power consumption only goes up if the GPU is challenged during media playback. If no media playback is running, the GPU is not used at all and in that case it doesn´t consume more energy than the 1050 (perhaps a bit more).
As I say, I think that logic is flawed and ultimately sees you pulling more and not less power out of the wall.
There are lots of good reasons to get this or another solution - wanting to use it for HDMI sources, not wanting to "do" HTPC anymore, leaving someone else to make hardware, but saving electricity or reducing noise over an existing well designed HTPC that was staying in service wouldn't be one.
 

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So here goes:

We've changed our minds, and the Envy base model (name TBD) will actually be upgradable to HDMI 2.1 (for a cost).

But it will probably not be upgradable beyond HDMI 2.1, while the Pro Cinema model will. And please keep in mind that our cost for the HDMI input is pretty high, so the upgrade cost to HDMI 2.1 will not be ultra cheap. But of course we'll try to make it fair. Don't know yet what the cost will be.
Given that the Envy is based on standard off the shelf PC hardware (HDCP input card aside) and case size, and you’ve said that both the base model and Cinema Pro will have access to the same algos and processing, what is to stop an owner of the base model buying a 2080Ti and swapping out the GPU, essentially giving themselves the same processing power as the Cinema Pro and allowing them to max out the processing settings?

Or will there be some sort of software level restriction that locks them out of being able to change the GPU?
 

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Nah, this was only about internal details about how the Envy works / is designed. It was not about keeping some unannounced secret features hidden.
I'm an engineer and I get very religious about hardware and software design and adoption even if those layers of the system don't necessarily translate into any significant change in the user experience. I'm really curious about the internals, but I understand some things will always be kept secret ;)
 

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Since the HTPC runs 24/7 for automation tasks, I designed it with low power consumption hardware. The Envy would only consume power when watching a movie and would be switched off when not watching a movie. The HTPC will be powered on always. I don't want an overpowerd Graphics card using electricity while not using its power for 95% of the day. Same goes for the CPU.
As i stated before, as long as you don´t watch a movie, CPU utilization will be low and GPU will not be utilized at all in your HTPC. So power consumption will be low at that times.
 

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As I say, I think that logic is flawed and ultimately sees you pulling more and not less power out of the wall.
There are lots of good reasons to get this or another solution - wanting to use it for HDMI sources, not wanting to "do" HTPC anymore, leaving someone else to make hardware, but saving electricity or reducing noise over an existing well designed HTPC that was staying in service wouldn't be one.
Agree
 

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aka jfinnie
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Since the HTPC runs 24/7 for automation tasks, I designed it with low power consumption hardware. The Envy would only consume power when watching a movie and would be switched off when not watching a movie. The HTPC will be powered on always. I don't want an overpowerd Graphics card using electricity while not using its power for 95% of the day. Same goes for the CPU. But when watching a movie, I turn on Amps, a Projector and what have you, which all consume lots of power but only for the remainder of the movie. Does that make sense?
I am also running Windows 7 and not 10 because I don't like W10 at all and the mobo is not even on the latest PCI standard so the better GPU would suffer in that respect as well. The HTPC however does do all of its tasks superb 24/7 without too much of power consumption and plenty of speed for its use case.

I don't mind adding an Envy to the system as long as the net results are visible and much better. And that was my original question.
Fair enough. I don't think you're going to get the power consumption benefits you think you'll get - at best it will be marginal if you hardly ever watch movies - but you should clearly get some improvement in image quality if you're not able to use any of the options currently.
I think idle power consumption on something like a 1050ti is 6-7W and a 1080ti 12-13W.

Anyway, best of luck with it.
 

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Probably.

I will give it a try in some months and see for myself and might even test a 2080Ti in my setup but knowing myself I would probably end up building a complete new HTPC with all the current hardware and be stuck on Windows 10. Thanks for the considerations.
 

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So here goes:



We've changed our minds, and the Envy base model (name TBD) will actually be upgradable to HDMI 2.1 (for a cost).



But it will probably not be upgradable beyond HDMI 2.1, while the Pro Cinema model will. And please keep in mind that our cost for the HDMI input is pretty high, so the upgrade cost to HDMI 2.1 will not be ultra cheap. But of course we'll try to make it fair. Don't know yet what the cost will be.
Why can't you call it envy consumer and envy pro?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

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Probably.

I will give it a try in some months and see for myself and might even test a 2080Ti in my setup but knowing myself I would probably end up building a complete new HTPC with all the current hardware and be stuck on Windows 10. Thanks for the considerations.
I would consider moving the automation stuff away from your HTPC to a dedicated low power system.
I don´t think it´s a good to idea to combine this anyway.
 

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I would consider moving the automation stuff away from your HTPC to a dedicated low power system.
I don´t think it´s a good to idea to combine this anyway.
I think you would be impressed by the level of automation achieved while combining the two. It is not just automation, but it makes up for a whole experience while starting and stopping the theater or putting a movie in pause. I used to do that even in the past but at the time felt that having the two combined was more convenient. But now that hard and software has matured a lot, it may even be a good suggestion which I will also look into. Building a very good W10 HTPC with IP control from my HA PC is simple enough. So I would leavy the current HTPC as my Home Automation server while building a new HTPC instead of the other way around. Anyways, this is becoming off topic. Thanks for the good ideas though.
 

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This is also my biggest question
Even if they keep the fan noise down to acceptable levels (which is never a given) the heat emission will likely be a losing battle for me. The Envy will basically be putting out the heat of a very high end gaming rig, which is substantial. As such, I will just need to move the Envy to the basement below the theater. No more noise or heat issues. A hybrid optical hdmi should do the trick where long hdmi lengths will not matter. It would be nice if the Envy auto sensed a signal and turned off/on automatically for remote locations. Would also be nice if the remote is RF, but I assume IP, Control4 and Crestron control is likely.
 

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Correct, my HTPC will stay as a source and it needs to stay at low power. So I will not change the 1050Ti for a 2080Ti or anything in between. And then the question is; will I get worthy results with an Envy while using a 1050Ti with MadVR @ DXVA as a source for both 1080p and 4K HDR.
Lets see, power bill goes up by maybe $10/month with 2080ti. Envy $5500. 45 years before GPU upgrade more expensive?
 

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When you have the db noise levels and BTU emission from the Base model and Pro model, please post. If unable to state details, then are the fans high quality, large and slow moving, which create very low db levels? Is the heat output levels mild, moderate or fairly high? In other words, can these units be placed inside a theater without disrupting the theater environment. Thank you.
We don't have that information yet. The case fans will be big and slow moving. The heat will mainly come from the Nvidia GPU.

As for the split screen or demo option, maybe a one second turning algo's on and off could be possible?
I'm not sure if that wouldn't be too fast. I think it would be better to switch algos on a click of the remote or something. But we haven't really spent too much time thinking about how to best implement this yet.

I thought it already has a bypass HDMI out which sounds like it is located on the input card? No idea if that can be active at the same time as the main HDMI out from the graphics card though.
There is already a loop-through HDMI port, and it's active at the same time as the main HDMI out.

Even if they keep the fan noise down to acceptable levels (which is never a given) the heat emission will likely be a losing battle for me. The Envy will basically be putting out the heat of a very high end gaming rig, which is substantial.
Yes and no. Yes in terms of GPU, but the CPU should be near to idle power/heat levels at all times.

As such, I will just need to move the Envy to the basement below the theater. No more noise or heat issues. A hybrid optical hdmi should do the trick where long hdmi lengths will not matter. It would be nice if the Envy auto sensed a signal and turned off/on automatically for remote locations. Would also be nice if the remote is RF, but I assume IP, Control4 and Crestron control is likely.
Auto turning the Envy off if there's no signal for a specific amount of time should be possible. It's not implemented yet, but I like the idea. So if we somehow forget to implement this, just remind me and I'll add it at some point.

We considered RF remote, but the one we tried had pretty bad reception. We will definitely support IP control, which should work with Crestron.

How about Base model: Envy Cinema
Pro model: Envy Pro Cinema
Why can't you call it envy consumer and envy pro?
Envy HT & Envy Pro HT
Thanks, we'll take these suggestions into consideration.
 
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