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aka jfinnie
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Look at the specs.
They DO include HDCP up to v2.2 for some and HDR10 identification.
These are also designed for game capture and this needs HDCP ... besides HDMI input card without HDCP would be meaningless.
HDMI is perfectly useable for professional purposes without HDCP.
Let me know when you have one of those devices working ;)
 

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ABSOLUTE ULTIMATE AV
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I will tell you that result in a few weeks, on March 21 and 22 we are organizing a madVR event (shoot out).
We will put up two identical JVC and two Sony projectors, one with and one without MadVR Envy in the chain, so we can evaluate side by side on the same screen and with the same content what the Envy does with both projectors.

Just for the record, we are in Europe, so probably a bit far for you guys :)
Hey Werner,

Sorry I missed you at ISE 2020!

Whilst I am sure you already have this in mind, please be sure to calibrate the madVR Envy using a 3D LUT with respect to each projector. This can very easily be done via CalMAN's automated workflow.

Also, I can highly recommend using some of the HDR video content off the Spears & Munsil UHD HDR Benchmark (UHD Blu-ray Disc) for the comparisons.

Looking forward to hearing the feedback from the shootout! :)

Best,
Nigel
 

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ABSOLUTE ULTIMATE AV
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Greeting to all from ISE 2020!

So I just finished an in depth demonstration of the MadVR Envy at ISE 2020, and yes this is indeed situated within the Alcons Pro-Ribbon booth :)

In short, the MadVR Envy is
absolutely incredible. The demo was utterly mind-blowing. And this is despite the fact that the room was not perfectly blacked out (it's a trade show after all).

A massive congratulations and thank you to both @lovingdvd and @madshi for all their hard work and Mathias' creative genius in developing and bringing these products to market.

The improvements that MadVR Envy makes with respect to the video performance is way, way above and beyond 'just' dynamic tone-mapping with respect to HDR.

The difference in video performance is not slight or subtle.

It's literally as if everything is better. Furthermore, the resultant image that is produced looks practically 3D and the vanillla baseline in comparison extremely 2D. The image looks more real. The colors are better. The luminance dynamic range is very considerably increased. And this is merely the tip of the iceberg.

I have to admit that I was somewhat dubious regarding how effective the claimed artificial intelligence bright highlight and shadow detail recovery and optimisation would actuall be in reality. Furthermore, when I heard that the maximum setting is labelled 'Insane' I took this to be hyperbole... but it's not. Seriously, it really IS completely INSANE! I don't know how @madshi has done it but I am convinced that voodoo is involved! :p

One particular video clip in this regard was as shocking as being hit in the face with a baseball bat. It was a shot of clouds in the sky on a bright day, wherein with the vanilla a lot of the image is blown out to white, and seriously we are talking about 1/4 of the screen here; and yet the MadVR Envy fixed the image 100% to perfection. There were literally gasps from everyone in the room, myself included.

@lovingdvd and @madshi congratulations again. You have one hell of a product here.

And I hope that I am not going to upset the apple cart by saying this, but I consider it to be important.

There has been very understandably a lot of comparison versus the Lumagen PRO and questioning regards which is better.

Well I am going to answer that question for you.

It's the MadVR Envy, pure and simple. And it's not even close. Seriously, as compared with the Lumagen PRO it's on a totally different level. Which I have to say I was somewhat expecting given the difference in raw processing power for starters, let alone @madshi genius programming and algorithms etc.

Don't get me wrong. The MadVR Envy does not make Lumagen PRO any less or worse of a product that it is; wherein it really is a fantastic product. It's simply that the MadVR Envy is way, way, better.

Personally, I consider the pricing to be absolutely worth it and suffice to say I ordered one immediately on the spot.

I very much look forward to spending some considerable handson time with the MadVR Envy ASAP.

Hands down winner of BEST NEW PRODUCT at ISE 2020!!!

Very, very, well done!!! :cool:
Which Envy model was this ? Base model or the cinema Pro ?
Model names are yet to be confirmed; however, it is my understanding that the Envy PRO will be the 'base' model and something like Envy 'Super-Douper-Whoopie-Doopie' will be the upper model :p

This was the upper model :)

@ARROW-AV Have you seen MADVR previously or is the Envy your first go with it? This is an extremely positive review.

Was the demo showcasing only Tonemapping? Or other features as well?

Based on the pricing structure of the Envy, and my need/want to build a new PC anyway I've been considering just running MadVR on a PC, but interested in the envy as well. From previously, stated they should be the same, besides hardware components?
Have you seen MadVR as well? Just wondering if Envy in terms of performance as good or better than HTPC with MadVR ... with the obvious and huge advantage of being plug and play to any source. All my content is in a HTPC and you am wondering if Envy adds a lot more value over my HTPC.

Between HTPC with MadVR and With the DTM in NX series now I am having a very hard time judging the performance gain and pulling out the credit card to hit purchase!

Any enlightened view would be much appreciated
Of course I was not implying that NX DTM is close to MadVR. I already have a HTPC that I built solely to do DTM with MadVR.

My question is that does Envy offer any more benefits over the HTPC I already have. Are there features in Envy (except for handling other sources) that I don’t get in MadVR.

I am sure as time passes MadVR and Envy May diverge (or not - all depends on how Madshi plays this) but at this point of time are there significant differences.
Yes I have seen madVR previously. However, I have not to date used it a lot because of the pain in the ass setting up and maintaining an HTPC as well as the fact that the majority of my movie collection is on disc.

The fact of the matter is that at the present time the algorithms are the same with respect to both the HTPC version and Envy models, meaning that you will be experiencing the same performance if you have a powerful HTPC.

However, it is my understanding that the Envy will indeed diverge and become superior to the HTPC version over time. But for now the primary reasons for buying an Envy are the convenience, user friendliness and the ability to use madVR with ANY and ALL sources, including streaming content and discs.

Have anyone had the chance to see the Envy/Sony VW5000 demo yet? If so, can you share some impressions about differences with & without DTM on the 5000?
The difference is very considerable indeed, and especially so because the tone-mapping in the Sony 5000ES is pants.

However, the improvements with respect to the dark end of the spectrum were limited by the SONY 5000ES' poor black floor.

How much setup / configuration is required for the Envy ? I doubt any local calibrator will have any experience with it for quite some time.
It's very easy to setup, configure and use. Also, calibrating 3D LUTs is very simply done vai CalMAN


I guess the comparison is more of an indictment of how shockingly bad the tone mapping capabilities of the flagship Sony projector are for the money! :)
The madVR's AI Bright Highlights and Shadow Detail recovery is phenomenal.
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I only post this for info's sake...the MadVR Envy is a product I'm keeping my eye on and am eager to see what others think of it.

I have a Sony 885ES, Lumagen with DTM, and Oppo 203. I just watched the 10,000 nit horse clip on the Spears/Munsil disc and can safely say my picture looks pretty close to the MadVR horse pic, and doesn't look anything like the washed out horse pic. That being said, I am keeping up with the info about the Envy, to see what other people think of its performance, especially when compared to a Lumagen.
Same here. My image looks much like the MadVR image. Not only do you see all of the grass sticking up in the snow, but you could see all of the horse tracks in the snow.
 

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Envy on, envy off, at ISE Amsterdam, what can I say, it is that good :) :) And yes i took the pictures myself and it the result in real life is even more wow.
I’ve seen some posts in the Lumagen Radiance Pro thread proclaiming the clear superiority of the Envy, but I’m looking at that same exact image (horses in snowfall) on my Lumagen 4242+ / JVC NX7 as I type this, and I see lots details that are missing in the Envy photo. Perhaps it’s the camera?
 

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I’ve seen some posts in the Lumagen Radiance Pro thread proclaiming the clear superiority of the Envy, but I’m looking at that same exact image (horses in snowfall) on my Lumagen 4242+ / JVC NX7 as I type this, and I see lots details that are missing in the Envy photo. Perhaps it’s the camera?

Which posts in the lumagen thread are you referring to?


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I’ve seen some posts in the Lumagen Radiance Pro thread proclaiming the clear superiority of the Envy, but I’m looking at that same exact image (horses in snowfall) on my Lumagen 4242+ / JVC NX7 as I type this, and I see lots details that are missing in the Envy photo. Perhaps it’s the camera?
Hi, try taking a photo of your screen, does it looks exactly like you see in person? this is a difficult scene to photograph and no regular cameras will have the dynamic range to capture the nuances of what we are seeing in person.

The only way these 2 products can be properly compared is in the same room with an A/B setup.
 

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Which posts in the lumagen thread are you referring to?
I don’t recall who the OP was, but he linked to Arrow-AV’s post in this thread, and there were some related posts that followed before the topic dissipated. It wasn’t done provocatively, and I don’t mean to do so either.
 

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Envy on, envy off, at ISE Amsterdam, what can I say, it is that good :) :) And yes i took the pictures myself and it the result in real life is even more wow.
Well, I reviewed your posted photo on a better monitor (had originally viewed it on my iPad Pro) and the Envy photo of the horses looks pretty darn good.

I think it will be key to have the Envy product because some of us just don't care to rip our disks. I'm too lazy, I just want to plug my sources into it and pick up my universal remote.
 

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Hey Werner,

Sorry I missed you at ISE 2020!

Whilst I am sure you already have this in mind, please be sure to calibrate the madVR Envy using a 3D LUT with respect to each projector. This can very easily be done via CalMAN's automated workflow.

Also, I can highly recommend using some of the HDR video content off the Spears & Munsil UHD HDR Benchmark (UHD Blu-ray Disc) for the comparisons.

Looking forward to hearing the feedback from the shootout!

Best,
Nigel
Hi Nigel,

No prob. we had a busy schedule an there was lots to see :)
As for the 3D lut and the Spears&Munsil disc, we got both of them covered ;-) I also bought the new Murideo Seven generator, looks like a nice piece of equipment.
I will try to document as much as possible with the shootout an report what my findings are.

Best,
Werner
 

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I’ve seen some posts in the Lumagen Radiance Pro thread proclaiming the clear superiority of the Envy, but I’m looking at that same exact image (horses in snowfall) on my Lumagen 4242+ / JVC NX7 as I type this, and I see lots details that are missing in the Envy photo. Perhaps it’s the camera?

Like I said, it is just a stupid iPhone picture I maid to have something to post as what the difference is in both shots. of course this is in no way a reference on how things look in detail, i think (hope) everyone here has the knowledge and experience to judge a simple picture made on a cell phone an knows how to interpret that.
 

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aka jfinnie
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The madVR's AI Bright Highlights and Shadow Detail recovery is phenomenal.
I guess these techniques may ignite a whole new reference vs preference discussion. The only "reference" I can find for that horse scene doesn't have the details in the highlights (which I guess are to some extent being recovered) being as prominent as they seem in the photo vs the horses themselves, which appears to detract from the focus on the horses. (All the usual provisos about photos and dynamic range etc)... Be nice to understand the intent from the horses mouth, so to speak (a pun? Nehyyy! :D). Given the nature of this content that kind of info could be available from @sspears.

Do you know if the level of such recovery efforts is configurable on the Envy? It would be nice if this sort of thing could be "seasoned to taste".

If you do get a unit in, I'd love to see it in action Nigel (hint!).
 

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I guess these techniques may ignite a whole new reference vs preference discussion. The only "reference" I can find for that horse scene doesn't have the details in the highlights (which I guess are to some extent being recovered) being as prominent as they seem in the photo vs the horses themselves, which appears to detract from the focus on the horses. (All the usual provisos about photos and dynamic range etc)... Be nice to understand the intent from the horses mouth, so to speak (a pun? Nehyyy! :D). Given the nature of this content that kind of info could be available from @sspears.

Do you know if the level of such recovery efforts is configurable on the Envy? It would be nice if this sort of thing could be "seasoned to taste".

If you do get a unit in, I'd love to see it in action Nigel (hint!).
The APL of that shot is around 1000 nits. That is the average level. The horses themselves are less interesting than the detail in the background mountains and the detail in the lower front of the screen in the snow. This shot will clip by default on the Sony Z9D in Dolby Vision. I suspect the EDID block for Dolby Vision is set incorrectly on this display as it does not clip on other DV displays nor should it. If you pull contrast down to around 88, the clipping goes away. You can see the same clipping on a Dolby Vision contrast pattern.

Here is a quick capture of the montage from the Panasonic into the AJA HDR Analyzer. This was done as a proof of concept to see if it would work for the update we have planned. This video is 1080p60 and is in HDR. The final will be 2160p23.976.

The analyzer was in gamut warning mode, which is why the video is in black and white and anything orange / red means the gamut is beyond P3 for those pixels. There are two bars. The left bar is peak luminance and the right bar is gamut. The peak luminance warning is set to 4000 and gamut warning is set to P3 in this video. The bars turn red when they go beyond those settings. The left bar has a number in the middle and that is the average I believe. The bottom number is the peak.
 

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ABSOLUTE ULTIMATE AV
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I guess these techniques may ignite a whole new reference vs preference discussion. The only "reference" I can find for that horse scene doesn't have the details in the highlights (which I guess are to some extent being recovered) being as prominent as they seem in the photo vs the horses themselves, which appears to detract from the focus on the horses. (All the usual provisos about photos and dynamic range etc)... Be nice to understand the intent from the horses mouth, so to speak (a pun? Nehyyy! :D). Given the nature of this content that kind of info could be available from @sspears.

Do you know if the level of such recovery efforts is configurable on the Envy? It would be nice if this sort of thing could be "seasoned to taste".
There are 3 settings on the Envy PRO model, namely Low, Medium, and High; and 4 settings on the Envy 'Super-Douper-Whoopie-Doopie' model ( @madshi I am going to keep calling it this until you guys pick a name! ;) :D :p) namely Low, Medium, High, and Insane.

What you are seeing there is the Envy 'Super-Douper-Whoopie-Doopie' model with the highlight and shadow detail recovery set to Insane :)

If you do get a unit in, I'd love to see it in action Nigel (hint!).
Don't worry, you most certainly will ;)

I just finished my latest two home theater builds here in the UK and I will be hosting some open day A/V parties here shortly wherein folks who are interested from these forums will be able to attend, wherein, amongst other things, I will be demoing the madVR Envy. You will be able to see what it is doing versus vanilla as well as the JVC DTM :)

.
 

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ABSOLUTE ULTIMATE AV
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Why don't you both fly over to Belgium, I will treat you to a Belgian beer and fries and we can play the whole day with the new toys :D:D:D
I really wish I could come myself Werner, your AV comparison events are always epic! :)

Unfortunately too many commitments in the diary... :(
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ABSOLUTE ULTIMATE AV
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The APL of that shot is around 1000 nits. That is the average level. The horses themselves are less interesting than the detail in the background mountains and the detail in the lower front of the screen in the snow. This shot will clip by default on the Sony Z9D in Dolby Vision. I suspect the EDID block for Dolby Vision is set incorrectly on this display as it does not clip on other DV displays nor should it. If you pull contrast down to around 88, the clipping goes away. You can see the same clipping on a Dolby Vision contrast pattern.

Here is a quick capture of the montage from the Panasonic into the AJA HDR Analyzer. This was done as a proof of concept to see if it would work for the update we have planned. This video is 1080p60 and is in HDR. The final will be 2160p23.976.

The analyzer was in gamut warning mode, which is why the video is in black and white and anything orange / red means the gamut is beyond P3 for those pixels. There are two bars. The left bar is peak luminance and the right bar is gamut. The peak luminance warning is set to 4000 and gamut warning is set to P3 in this video. The bars turn red when they go beyond those settings. The left bar has a number in the middle and that is the average I believe. The bottom number is the peak.
It's not a DV display though.

Specifically, the display was a SONY VPL-VW5000ES projector, reportedly optimally calibrated including using a 3D LUT. As such, being a home theater projector, as opposed to a TV or emissive display, it was/is not a Dolby Vision display, so I would expect that only the HDR10 component would be being outputted.
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