[ben7337]

I'm sorry to start a thread just to ask about this, but I saw a chart a while back about ram speed and how it affected madvr with the sandy bridge IGP and I can't find it anymore and was wondering if someone might know where it was or what ram speed was recommended. I can't recall if it was 1866mhz or 2133mhz.


Also does anyone have any opinions on Ivy Bridge and MadVR? I found some discussions online, but haven't been able to find anything dedicated to that discussion on this site.

 

[renethx]


Intel HD Graphics 1000/2000/2500

Intel HD Graphics 3000

Intel HD Graphics 4000 ? I wrote a quick summary in a post. Because of extremely poor search engine, I can't find it. Yes, it can handle all contents with DDR3-1600 (maybe a dropped frame every couple of minutes)

 

Overall Intel iGPU is not good enough yet for madVR. Let alone the full range RGB level issue and not so good 23.796Hz. We will have to wait for Haswell.

 

[ben7337]

I'm confused, your posts that you linked to which were the ones I was having trouble finding, say that Sandy Bridge can handle MadVR on high settings, though lanczos 3 taps rather than 4 is necessary due to limitations by the IGP. However since the HD4000 in Ivy Bridge has 16 EU's rather than 12 I imagine it should be plenty fine for even that, which is what you said in your 2nd linked post at the end. I get that the IGP is just barely able to do madvr, but it looks like it is capable.


Also how did you OC the IGP? Did you do it via BIOS the way one does with a CPU or did you use some sort of program?

 

[renethx]


A content with 60 frames per second (1080i60, 480i60 [video], 760p60, 1080p60; interlaced contents are actually 60 fields per second, but tuned to 60 frames after deinterlaced) has to be processed quickly in a short period of 1 / 60fps = 16.67 ms. I see "rendering time" be often ~14.5 ms with Core i5-3570K. This indicates that GPU is not good enough yet. If GPU is overcloked to 1350MHz (under "GT OverClocking Support" in BIOS) and DDR3-2133 is used (that works only under a Z68/Z77/Z75 motherboard), the rendering time can be reduced to ~12.5ms. But you may see BSOD.

 

[koopman]

Does AMD offer a better AIO solution? Does the E-450 with the Radeon HD 6320 graphics have the oomph to support full madvr processing? I would think the graphics side would be plenty, but the cpu itself is pretty weak.

 

[anleva]

Renethx -


Thank your for your post and benchmarks. I studied the metrics you linked to for the HD 2000 using the Celeron G530 and here are my conclusions from that post.


My configuration:


i3-2100 HD2000 Graphics

DDR3 1333

H67 motherboard

default clock

madVR, medium quality (Bilinear/Bicubic 50/Bicubic 50), in full screen exclusive mode

Intel QuickSync


My conclusion for my configuration (I had to make some assumptions as your metrics were with an overlocked G530 with faster memory):


- My only issue as far as adequate rendering performance would be SD interlaced Video output to 480p60. I should have adequate rendering performance for SD Film, HD Film, HD i Video, HD p Video.


- If I never watch SD content, my configuration rendering performance will be adequate. It looks like there may even be some headroom to increase some from medium quality to a higher quality for HD film and interlaced video.


- With slower memory than DDR-2133 you had a CPU utilization issue with HD i video. But that was with a Celeron G530. My assumption is that with a much faster CPU such as my i3-2100 I would not see that CPU utlization problem.


So my conclusion from your data (again I needed to make some assumptions since it was not with an i3-2100 and my memory) is my configuration should have adequate performance at medium settings if SD video is not a requirment. Since I'm an HD snob and don't watch SD content, it would be fine for me to use madVR and MPC-HC and there might even be headroom to increase quality from medium.


Is my conclusion reasonable?

 

[Sammy2]

Nice question. I'll be interested in the answer too.


It is my understanding that w/o overclocking DDR 1333 is the fastest you can go. I have DDR 1600 but I don't think the full speed of the RAM is utilized in my system, which is an i3-550 with HD2000 graphics, MadVR at default and no QuickSync (don't think it works with HD2000).

 

[renethx]



Quote:
Originally Posted by koopman  /t/1417683/madvr-intel-igp-and-ram-speed#post_22170824


Does AMD offer a better AIO solution? Does the E-450 with the Radeon HD 6320 graphics have the oomph to support full madvr processing? I would think the graphics side would be plenty, but the cpu itself is pretty weak.

 

MadVR does not use CPU to process video, it uses GPU exclusively. Roughly there are three stages of video processing:

 

- Decoding by GPU's fixed function: AMD's UVD, Intel MFX, NVIDIA's VP (you can also use CPU to decode video, of course) [The decoder and video memory are important here.]

- Copying back decoded frames to the system memory, then uploading them to the video memory

- Processing by madVR/GPU's shader units [The number of sharder units matters here.]

 

Performance of each GPU at each stage depends on the video format played back. There are six major video formats in NTSC countries:

 

	Origin	Main medium	Format	Output to renderer	Frame interval
SD film	film	DVD, SDTV broadcast	480i60	480p24	41.708 ms
SD video	video	DVD, SDTV broadcast, camcorder	480i60	480p60	16.683 ms
HD film	film	BD (and HDTV broadcast up to pulldown)	1080p24	1080p24	41.708 ms
HD interlaced video	video	BD, HDTV broadcast, camcorder	1080i60	1080p60	16.683 ms
HD progressive video (720)	video	HDTV broadcast, camcorder	720p60	720p60	16.683 ms
HD progressive video (1080)	video	camcorder	1080p60	1080p60	16.683 ms

 

Test clips I used . A quick summary:

 

	Radeon HD 6310 / 6320 (Zacate)	Radeon HD 6410D (Llano) / 6450	Radeon HD 6530D / 6550D (Llano)	Radeon HD 6570 and higher	Radeon HD 7xxx	Intel HD 1k / 2k / 2.5k / 3k	Intel HD 4K	GeForce 520=610 / 620 / 430 DDR3-1400	GeForce 430 DDR3-1600 / 440=630 and higher
Decoder	NG for 1080p60	Good	Good	Good	Good	Good	Good	Good	Good
Copy back / Upload	NG for HD	NG for 760p60 / 1080p60	NG for 720p60 / 1080p60	NG for 1080p60	Good	Good	Good	Good	Good
Shader units	NG for any but SD film	NG for video	Good	Good	Good	NG for video	OK	NG for video	Good
To sum up	NG for any but SD film	NG for video	NG for 720p60 / 1080p60	NG for 1080p60	Good	NG for video	OK	NG for video	Good

 

AMD A6-3500 Llano APU with HD 6530D is the cheapest ($70) all-in-one solution (except for the camcorder formats). AMD Trinity APU, to be released in October, should fix the copy-back/upload problem. If you want to use a discrete graphics card, then Intel SNB/IVB + Radeon HD 7750 is perhaps the best solution. GeForce GT 430 DDR3-1600 is also good (and $40 cheaper), but the driver UI sucks ( how ).

 

[anleva]

Renethx -


In the HD2000, G530, performance metrics you provided the average rendering time for HD i and HD p video are well below the 60fps frame interval (not so for SD video).


So wouldn't it be more accurate to say "NG for SD video" in your chart? From your performance metrics it looks like rendering time would be acceptable for HD i and HP p video which is the essence of my question above.

 

[renethx]


Intel HD 1k/2k + DDR3-1066/1333 is good only for films at madVR high quality. The results with Core i3-2100 + DDR3-1333 + high quality FSE:

 

	deinterlacing time	rendering time (should be less than 16.7 ms)
SD video	4 ms	34 ms
HD interlaced video	6 ms	32 ms
HD progressive video (720)	NA	39 ms
HD progressive video (1080)	NA	17 ms

 

[anleva]

Thanks Renethx. My initial question, which has not yet been directly addressed, concerned the performance capabilities of my configuration at medium quality settings based on the data you provided for the HD2000 at the start of this thread. From my original post:


"So my conclusion from your data (again I needed to make some assumptions since it was not with an i3-2100 and my memory) is my configuration should have adequate performance at medium settings if SD video is not a requirment. Since I'm an HD snob and don't watch SD content, it would be fine for me to use madVR and MPC-HC and there might even be headroom to increase quality from medium.


Is my conclusion reasonable?"

 

[Sammy2]



Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx  /t/1417683/madvr-intel-igp-and-ram-speed#post_22171794


Intel HD 1k/2k + DDR3-1066/1333 is good only for films at madVR high quality. The results with Core i3-2100 + DDR3-1333:

	deinterlacing time	rendering time (should be less than 16.7 ms)
SD video	4 ms	34 ms
HD interlaced video	6 ms	32 ms
HD progressive video (720)	NA	39 ms
HD progressive video (1080)	NA	17 ms

So 720p takes more time to render than 1080p?

 

[anleva]



Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx  /t/1417683/madvr-intel-igp-and-ram-speed#post_22171794


Intel HD 1k/2k + DDR3-1066/1333 is good only for films at madVR high quality. The results with Core i3-2100 + DDR3-1333:

	deinterlacing time	rendering time (should be less than 16.7 ms)
SD video	4 ms	34 ms
HD interlaced video	6 ms	32 ms
HD progressive video (720)	NA	39 ms
HD progressive video (1080)	NA	17 ms

Actually renethx what I would really appreciate is to see this exact chart at madVR medium quality settings if you the information available. That is the results with Core i3-2100 + DDR3-1333 at madVR medium quality settings.

 

[renethx]


The results with Core i3-2100 + DDR3-1333 + medium quality FSE:

 

	deinterlacing time	rendering time (should be less than 16.7 ms)
SD video	2 ms	22 ms
HD interlaced video	6 ms	21 ms
HD progressive video (720)	NA	22 ms
HD progressive video (1080)	NA	9 ms

 

GPU struggles with deinterlacing. So if "yadif" (software deinterlacer) is on in LAV Video Decoder,

 

	deinterlacing time	rendering time (should be less than 16.7 ms)
SD video	NA	19 ms
HD interlaced video	NA	9 ms
HD progressive video (720)	NA	22 ms
HD progressive video (1080)	NA	9 ms

 

So this is good for SD/HD films and 1080i/p60 videos; not good for SD videos and 720p60 videos.

 

[anleva]



Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx  /t/1417683/madvr-intel-igp-and-ram-speed#post_22172030


...So this is good for SD/HD films and 1080i/p60 videos; not good for SD videos and 720p60 videos.

Perfect, thank you so much for the information!

 

[renethx]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2  /t/1417683/madvr-intel-igp-and-ram-speed#post_22171871


So 720p takes more time to render than 1080p?

 

Yes. No luma up/downsampling is necessary for 1080 contents in a 1080p display, but luma upsampling is necessary for 720 contents.

 

[Sammy2]



Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx  /t/1417683/madvr-intel-igp-and-ram-speed#post_22172133


Yes. No luma up/downsampling is necessary for 1080 contents in a 1080p display, but luma upsampling is necessary for 720 contents.

Okay. Is there a way to "pass the 720p through to my AVR untouched so it can use its internal upscaler to 1080p?


Even very little of the content I watch is 720p except some LiveTV I guess and I'm not seeing any stutter or frame drops on LiveTV so I'm not sure if this is an issue. Sure the processor may be leaving a few frames behind but I'm not noticing it, I guess.

 

[renethx]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2  /t/1417683/madvr-intel-igp-and-ram-speed#post_22172476


Okay. Is there a way to "pass the 720p through to my AVR untouched so it can use its internal upscaler to 1080p?

 

Set the desktop resolution/refresh rate to 1280x720 / 59Hz.

 

[theod78]

Renethx said: "MadVR does not use CPU to process video ...... you can also use CPU to decode video, of course" . I'm confused!

 

[Sammy2]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2  /t/1417683/madvr-intel-igp-and-ram-speed#post_22172476


Okay. Is there a way to "pass the 720p through to my AVR untouched so it can use its internal upscaler to 1080p?

Even very little of the content I watch is 720p except some LiveTV I guess and I'm not seeing any stutter or frame drops on LiveTV so I'm not sure if this is an issue. Sure the processor may be leaving a few frames behind but I'm not noticing it, I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx  /t/1417683/madvr-intel-igp-and-ram-speed#post_22173520


Set the desktop resolution/refresh rate to 1280x720 / 59Hz.

Thanks!


So then what happens with 1080i LiveTV content? Currently I have the display settings in windows to 1920x1080 to match the resolution of my HDTV.