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you are all aware that bitstreaming has far inferior sync then decoded audio?

there are good reasons to bitstream like a atmos setup but if you are not gaining anything from it you can even beat it by not bitstreaming.



why should this fix the issue?
I don't buy it. I trust my receiver to decode and upscale the audio far more than I trust my PC software to do it. I'd rather send the digital file over to the receiver and have it do the decode. This allows me to keep my PC in 2 channel mode, which allows the receiver to properly upscale 2 channel audio to full 5.1 / 7.1.4 etc. If you leave your PC set up as 5.1 or 7.1 mode to decode other formats, then when you play back something with stereo audio, you dont get any upscale at all because you're sending the receiver decoded multichannel PCM of 7.1 channels with only the left and right front populated with data.
 

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this has nothing todo with what i said and doesn't change that sync is at best guessing with bitstreaming.
you send audio frames where you can only start decoding when you have the entire audio frame. do you send this earlier so it can be decoded in time how much does the AVR buffer the audio frames are they consistent between different formats?

all of this is fixable on the PC by following official specs.
 

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this has nothing todo with what i said and doesn't change that sync is at best guessing with bitstreaming.
you send audio frames where you can only start decoding when you have the entire audio frame. do you send this earlier so it can be decoded in time how much does the AVR buffer the audio frames are they consistent between different formats?

all of this is fixable on the PC by following official specs.
So you're arguing that the audio is going to be slightly delayed with bitstreaming because the processor needs to take "some time" to decode the frame? That doesn't matter at all. The display takes even longer to process and display the video when it receives the video. In my setup, I always have to add an audio delay. It's not the other way around.
 

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who said it's delayed? could be to early too.

i'm just arguing it's not remotely as perfect as it's been made on forums like this.
i already said there are good reason to use it or better reason they force on us so they can make more money for no benefit for the end user.

you can change audio layouts on a PC you can up mix on a PC you can even do room correction and such thing it's just a waste land on well know implementation that are also DS compatible.

and yes JVC are known for there "high" input lag. i mean HDMI created auto lip sync yeah... cool story i know.
 

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who said it's delayed? could be to early too.

i'm just arguing it's not remotely as perfect as it's been made on forums like this.
i already said there are good reason to use it or better reason they force on us so they can make more money for no benefit for the end user.

you can change audio layouts on a PC you can up mix on a PC you can even do room correction and such thing it's just a waste land on well know implementation that are also DS compatible.

and yes JVC are known for there "high" input lag. i mean HDMI created auto lip sync yeah... cool story i know.
You said it's delayed because you said
you send audio frames where you can only start decoding when you have the entire audio frame. do you send this earlier so it can be decoded in time
How else can one interpret this? If it's delayed, it's no big deal, you have a bigger delay at the display end. If it's early, its still the same, you have a bigger delay at the display end. In either case, you fix this with lip sync delay and it's consistent. It works well or millions of folks wouldn't be bit streaming successfully?

I agree it's possible in theory for a PC to decode fine. But the software just isn't well written at this time. The PC decode is tied to the PC speaker layout and current software is not good at upscaling using Dolby atmos upscaler on PC, which doesn't exist. Until software is written better, you get better outcome always bit streaming for everything except an oddball case like AAC 5.1.

Yes, you can change audio layouts on the PC. But who wants to get a keyboard out and poke around to change audio layouts between each video? That's a horrible use case. And when bit streaming, you do not need to do so.

In any case, I would argue that most people have some form of atmos system with at least 5.1.4. PC is pretty much a non-starter for this and only good for up to prologic II, which was released 20 years ago in the year 2000. This argument alone should be enough to persuade you to agree bit stream is the way to go.
 

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the bigger picture is do you send it early or not you don't know what's correct. so no that doesn't indicate delayed only. modern devices have input lags of 8 ms or lower. because you have no issue with delay delayed audio is generally fine for the human only early audio makes real problems. what was is sitting 30 cm farther from the speaker is literally about 1 ms more delay.

software decoding is bit perfect your AVR may not be that's the least of the problems.
there is the issue with forced DRC on AVR for example.
and there is the problem with atmos not been able to been decodeable yet.

ACC it can be bit streamed so can be WMA FLAC but "no one" cares to support it including AVRs.
bitstreaming is a major issue in the industry.
new audio codec can't be bit streamed time to buy a new AVR device? a 10 year old PC can easily decode opus.
and yes there are new audio codecs opus is one of the most used codec at the current time can you bit stream it?
there is absolutely no point in the need of bit stream for object audio it's actually worse compared to direct channel mapping HDMI 2.0 has native support for 32 direct audio channels but is made in such a way that you have to do it.
there is so much room correct software for PC.

you can automatically switch audio channel using ASIO hell even wasapi can do it is just not used AFAIK.

millions use VLC successful so madVR is not important?
what do you think is bit streaming used in professional audio setup?
i doubt 1 % have an atmos setup...
 

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the bigger picture is do you send it early or not you don't know what's correct. so no that doesn't indicate delayed only. modern devices have input lags of 8 ms or lower. because you have no issue with delay delayed audio is generally fine for the human only early audio makes real problems. what was is sitting 30 cm farther from the speaker is literally about 1 ms more delay.

software decoding is bit perfect your AVR may not be that's the least of the problems.
there is the issue with forced DRC on AVR for example.
and there is the problem with atmos not been able to been decodeable yet.

ACC it can be bit streamed so can be WMA FLAC but "no one" cares to support it including AVRs.
bitstreaming is a major issue in the industry.
new audio codec can't be bit streamed time to buy a new AVR device? a 10 year old PC can easily decode opus.
and yes there are new audio codecs opus is one of the most used codec at the current time can you bit stream it?
there is absolutely no point in the need of bit stream for object audio it's actually worse compared to direct channel mapping HDMI 2.0 has native support for 32 direct audio channels but is made in such a way that you have to do it.
there is so much room correct software for PC.

you can automatically switch audio channel using ASIO hell even wasapi can do it is just not used AFAIK.

millions use VLC successful so madVR is not important?
what do you think is bit streaming used in professional audio setup?
i doubt 1 % have an atmos setup...
There's a big difference in what can be done and what is recommended to use today. I have never owned an AVR that has undefeatable DRC. Yes, Opus, AAC really any format can be bit streamed. But you only bit stream the formats that are supported by the AVR. What do you do when a new format comes out your AVR doesn't support? You decode it on PC you have no choice. But you bit stream the rest.

The dolby upscaler in modern AVR is far better than the Dolby prologic II upscaler from 2000. (This is all you can do with LAV filters mixer). The modern Dolby upscaler is actually incredible. It takes 2 channel stereo source and makes what sounds a lot like full atmos out of it very convincing. Modern PC still stuck in 2000 just cannot compare. OK I guess if you have old AVR with only 5.1 support, it probably makes no difference if you are decoding or if you are bit streaming. You will not hear any better quality using the PC than bit stream. But on modern AVR you will hear a much better quality with bit streaming due to enhanced dolby upscaler on systems that are greater than 5.1 such as 5.1.4.
 

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you are aware that PC have full support for countless HRTF implementation and lavfilter is not the only software related to audio AC3 filter and ffdshow audio processor are there also they are only but quite powerful.

and because the up mix is convincing to you don't assume it is convincing to everyone i can mathematically proof that is just plain wrong (at least for dolby atmos)it's pretty much the same as frame interpolation just on audio with exception there are stereo tracks that are mastered to be up mixed so i can not argue on these track that it is missing the creators intent.

and google dolby atmos for home theater things change.

just another repeat there is no other way then bit streaming atmos because they force you to do that so if you want to use it you have to do it but that doesn'T mean is a good solution is good for dolby to make money.

didn't you say before that you setup stereo as output so you manually change the speaker layout every time you play a ACC 5.1 or opus file? BTW. i could tell you how to use ASIO with mpc-hc i have not used it in like 5 years but it should still work bitstream may work at the some time too again it's been a while.
 

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didn't you say before that you setup stereo as output so you manually change the speaker layout every time you play a ACC 5.1 or opus file? BTW. i could tell you how to use ASIO with mpc-hc i have not used it in like 5 years but it should still work bitstream may work at the some time too again it's been a while.
I have zero opus audio tracks. I have a few AAC5.1 tracks. My automation software currently loads the PC into 2 channel mode before loading Kodi. When an AAC5.1 file is being played, my automation software sets my PC into 5.1 mode before playing that file. Out of thousands of files, I only have 5-10 AAC5.1 tracks.

By the way, I like frame interpolation :)
 

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If I use anything with LAV filters such as MPC-HC or Kodi DSplayer I get extreme blown highlights when in Fullscreen windowed and FSE. However, it’s fine when windowed. This is with the older internal LAV filters and newer 0.74.1 via external.
Which version of Windows are you using?
I have full screen problems with Feature Update 2004.
Version 1909 does not exhibit the strange windowed/FS behavior.
 

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Which version of Windows are you using?
I have full screen problems with Feature Update 2004.
Version 1909 does not exhibit the strange windowed/FS behavior.
Version 20H2. Prior to this, with the AMD RX570 and 2080 Ti, I was on 2004 without issues.

Edit: only issue I’ve had in the past was the JVC magenta bug. But that was/is a known JVC thing.
 

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I posted this in the HDR-SDR thread, but was asked to post it here. Long story short ... I upgraded my HTPC with an EVGA 3080 FTW3 Ultra and I can only get MPC-BE (1.5.5.5433) with its internal filters to convert HDR properly.

If I use anything with LAV filters such as MPC-HC or Kodi DSplayer I get extreme blown highlights when in Fullscreen windowed and FSE. However, it’s fine when windowed. This is with the older internal LAV filters and newer 0.74.1 via external.

The attached pictures show the (1] excess highlights (not sure if this is the correct term) when fullscreen and (2) correction to normal when windowed (and what it looks like with correct conversion using MPC-BE’s internal filters when in fullscreen windowed or FSE).

This happens with MPC-BE as well when I use LAV External with 0.74.1. However, its fine with the included internal filters. This occurs with 456.38 and 456.71 drivers. I’ve also tried 8 and 10 bit, and RGB & YCbCr.

I also just reinstalled Windows 10 this past weekend and tested MadVR before installing any other program. Same results as when I noticed this a couple of weeks ago.

So for now, I'm just using MPC-BE via Kodi's external player.

View attachment 3050300

View attachment 3050301
Hey I had my theater up and running, so I tested the 3080 with aquaman and madvr tone mapping usin mpc-hc. Didnt have oversaturation:
3051467
 

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Hey I had my theater up and running, so I tested the 3080 with aquaman and madvr tone mapping usin mpc-hc. Didnt have oversaturation:
Well, that’s good news. What gear are you using in your video set up?

I hope you’re enjoying the card. It’s great with MadVR. You can pretty much max out the quality settings and get less than 30ms rendering.

So there is some hope for 3080 cards with no madVR problems. Now I'm totally confused, JonnyVee... as usual...:oops:
That makes two of us. I did a complete re-install of Windows 10 ... twice! And same behavior each time. I’m going to re-install lav filters and MPC- HC this weekend and add my Vertex2 back into the chain. It should show what signal is being sent when in FSE/FSW vs windowed. A bit of a facepalm for not trying using Vertex earlier.

Going to be a fun weekend. New projector bulb, calibrating and bug hunting. I keep telling my wife there are much worse hobbies and addictions she could have to live through.

Regarding gear. With the exception of my HTPC (Asus x570 Strix E M/B, AMD 3900x, EVGA 3080), all my gear is listed below. Could be a JVC thing?
 

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could be a JVC thing(would be the first time) this sounds unlike in this case because it different between FSE/FSW and windowed. you could try to disable HDMI content type in the nvidia driver it could change the HDMI content type when it switches been FSE/FSW and windowed.
 

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could be a JVC thing(would be the first time) this sounds unlike in this case because it different between FSE/FSW and windowed. you could try to disable HDMI content type in the nvidia driver it could change the HDMI content type when it switches been FSE/FSW and windowed.
Thx. I’ll add that to the list for tomorrow. It‘s currently on auto-select.
 

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Well, that’s good news. What gear are you using in your video set up?

I hope you’re enjoying the card. It’s great with MadVR. You can pretty much max out the quality settings and get less than 30ms rendering.



That makes two of us. I did a complete re-install of Windows 10 ... twice! And same behavior each time. I’m going to re-install lav filters and MPC- HC this weekend and add my Vertex2 back into the chain. It should show what signal is being sent when in FSE/FSW vs windowed. A bit of a facepalm for not trying using Vertex earlier.

Going to be a fun weekend. New projector bulb, calibrating and bug hunting. I keep telling my wife there are much worse hobbies and addictions she could have to live through.

Regarding gear. With the exception of my HTPC (Asus x570 Strix E M/B, AMD 3900x, EVGA 3080), all my gear is listed below. Could be a JVC thing?
I should be fully up to date windows wise. I have a 6700k with the 3080 on a JVC RS 2000 going through a Denon 4200. I use the second to last beta release of madvr and am currently running in 60hz instead of 24hz, I kept having issues with sound delay in 24hz and gave up lol. I haven tplaywd with anything since I got the 3080 though, may see if I can fix it now with new card.
 

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I should be fully up to date windows wise. I have a 6700k with the 3080 on a JVC RS 2000 going through a Denon 4200. I use the second to last beta release of madvr and am currently running in 60hz instead of 24hz, I kept having issues with sound delay in 24hz and gave up lol. I haven tplaywd with anything since I got the 3080 though, may see if I can fix it now with new card.
Give 24hz a try again. With the new card I noticed sync issues right away. However, it was because I had auto lip-sync on in the Denon which was needed with the 2080Ti (and I guess the AMD since it was already on). Once I turned lip sync off, the sync issues were gone.
 

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Hi All, I have a few questions about madvr before I try to implement it on my on my own htpc.
With MadVR Envy etc. is madvr for "free" still a thing? Or is it frozen at some point? Have they said how they will support the htpc community? Are we cutoff? Will we get everything? Basically, what is the future of DIY HTPC and madvr?
 
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