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At best, without some sort of details about your environment, folks here would be taking a shot in the dark lucky guess. Not having any idea what you use to display video, what type of video you are trying to display and if you ripped it correctly, where your subs originated from and what format they are, your player, madVR, and LAV settings, if you masked a screen or failed to set a display size setting for a panel, if you've used some convoluted band-aid to help the aging DSP with subs, if you are actually using the internal Kodi VideoPlayer, an external player or the DS Player to present your mysterious HDR random on/off Window setting and now your cut-off subs with a shrunken picture, etc., it's hard to help you help yourself.

I can say, me personally, I only use official front ends of Kodi. There is nothing official about 17.7 and therefor little to no resources to reach out to. That said, here's a couple screenshots to compare your picture size and sub problem using official Kodi Matrix with auto Windows HDR switching showing subtitle position and another using the external player MPC-BE launched seamlessly from Kodi as well as the official v0.92.17 madVR and latest 0.74.1.127 LAV Filters. I should also note, that these foreign spoken English subs are burned into the video area and not the lower black bar as are most PGS subs. If you are cutting those off, you really have display sizing problems imo.

Again, I can only assume you are trying to render an HDR version of your problem title and not an SDR version and this is possibly the time frame you're having problems with? These are from a 1:1 ripped iso. I've made adjustments in madVR, LAV Filters, MPC-BE, and Kodi to perfect how I like subtitles to present. Changes are positioning them in the lower black bar (to keep them out of the video), selecting a grey color instead of the default white (because they are blinding on my high nit display), scaling them smaller (because I don't need so much default real estate on an 82" screen), and reducing the opacity (because even presented grey, they are still too bright for my taste and I don't like to steal attention from the actual video so much). (Screenshot quality presented here look poor and do not represent the same tone map produced on my actual display fwiw).

This is Kodi internal VideoPlayer which does enough slight tone mapping to present somewhat of a screenshot here:

3116158


This is MPC-BE with no tone mapping because I'm able to simply pass through so the screenshot looks washed out but you can see that nothing is cut-off and the entire subtitle sentence is presented.

3116159


Maybe some of this will help you help yourself or at least show you what is possible depending how stuff is tailored.
 

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At best, without some sort of details about your environment, folks here would be taking a shot in the dark lucky guess. Not having any idea what you use to display video, what type of video you are trying to display and if you ripped it correctly, where your subs originated from and what format they are, your player, madVR, and LAV settings, if you masked a screen or failed to set a display size setting for a panel, if you've used some convoluted band-aid to help the aging DSP with subs, if you are actually using the internal Kodi VideoPlayer, an external player or the DS Player to present your mysterious HDR random on/off Window setting and now your cut-off subs with a shrunken picture, etc., it's hard to help you help yourself.

I can say, me personally, I only use official front ends of Kodi. There is nothing official about 17.7 and therefor little to no resources to reach out to. That said, here's a couple screenshots to compare your picture size and sub problem using official Kodi Matrix with auto Windows HDR switching showing subtitle position and another using the external player MPC-BE launched seamlessly from Kodi as well as the official v0.92.17 madVR and latest 0.74.1.127 LAV Filters. I should also note, that these foreign spoken English subs are burned into the video area and not the lower black bar as are most PGS subs. If you are cutting those off, you really have display sizing problems imo.

Again, I can only assume you are trying to render an HDR version of your problem title and not an SDR version and this is possibly the time frame you're having problems with? These are from a 1:1 ripped iso. I've made adjustments in madVR, LAV Filters, MPC-BE, and Kodi to perfect how I like subtitles to present. Changes are positioning them in the lower black bar (to keep them out of the video), selecting a grey color instead of the default white (because they are blinding on my high nit display), scaling them smaller (because I don't need so much default real estate on an 82" screen), and reducing the opacity (because even presented grey, they are still too bright for my taste and I don't like to steal attention from the actual video so much). (Screenshot quality presented here look poor and do not represent the same tone map produced on my actual display fwiw).

This is Kodi internal VideoPlayer which does enough slight tone mapping to present somewhat of a screenshot here:

View attachment 3116158

This is MPC-BE with no tone mapping because I'm able to simply pass through so the screenshot looks washed out but you can see that nothing is cut-off and the entire subtitle sentence is presented.

View attachment 3116159

Maybe some of this will help you help yourself or at least show you what is possible depending how stuff is tailored.
Thanks for the input. I'm not sure if they are actually considered "subtitles", because they aren't there the entire movie, just when translating Jabba the Hutt. I'm using an Epson 5050ub, projected onto a painted screen, so I never have to use any type of masking. I have an HTPC running Windows 10, with Kodi 17.7 DSPlayer, and DSPlayer is definitely being used internally. I have MadVR set up to do tone mapping.

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Do you follow the AMD, Intel and Nvidia driver issues and last recommended version thread on doom9? I would check there before upgrading to any new driver.
That is exactly why I posted all of this… I do follow that thread and still have had major issues with upgrading Nvidia drivers to the latest releases. madVR “hdr pass through” looks horrendous on my 2080Ti. Un-watchable. Did this require an Nvidia or madVR fix?

My point was I believe the new “30xx” series GPU’s force you to use these new driver releases. You can’t install older drivers (AFAIK).

I was only wanting others to acknowledge my thinking. And for them to talk about how they got past this with the new ”30xx” drivers.

I hate buying a new tech that is broken for my madVR needs.

Claw... Thanks for helping me on this one...
 

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I've never really been sure about my setup, as far as the option that says "the display is calibrated to the following primaries/gamut". When I asked the guy who calibrated my 5050ub, he told me he did both BT.709, and BT.2020. Here are screenshots of Return of the Jedi, in HDR. Which screenshot looks like the proper gamut, the top one, or the bottom one?


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Using kodi 17.6, I have the dsp player set to exclusive. When in this mode I can’t access the player controls or get to madvr controls. Are these not possible while in exclusive mode ?
 

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I've never really been sure about my setup, as far as the option that says "the display is calibrated to the following primaries/gamut". When I asked the guy who calibrated my 5050ub, he told me he did both BT.709, and BT.2020. Here are screenshots of Return of the Jedi, in HDR. Which screenshot looks like the proper gamut, the top one, or the bottom one?
There is no right or wrong. If you tell MadVR the display is already calibrated to BT.2020, then make sure you are using the BT2020 calibrated mode in your projector. If you tell MadVR BT.709, then use your BT.709 calibrated mode in your projector.

Don't mix them or you get either undersaturated or oversaturated color.
 

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I've never really been sure about my setup, as far as the option that says "the display is calibrated to the following primaries/gamut". When I asked the guy who calibrated my 5050ub, he told me he did both BT.709, and BT.2020. Here are screenshots of Return of the Jedi, in HDR. Which screenshot looks like the proper gamut, the top one, or the bottom
Just use madVR set to BT.2020 for all your content.
Set your PJ to use the BT.2020 color setting when using madVR.
709, P3, and 2020 will all display properly.

Bottom looks correct.
 

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Just use madVR set to BT.2020 for all your content.
Set your PJ to use the BT.2020 color setting when using madVR.
709, P3, and 2020 will all display properly.

Bottom looks correct.
The bottom is when MadVR is set to BT.709. The top pic is BT.2020. I was thinking the bottom looked correct too.

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I calibrate using separate SDR mode memory and HDR mode memory.

SDR at BT.709 using BT.1886 gamma
and
HDR at DCI-P3 using ST.2084 gamma

that auto switch via a madVR Calibration and Properties profile for BT.709 and DCI-P3 (SDR and HDR modes)

if (HDR) "DCI-P3"
else "BT.709"

and dither GPU 12bit to 10 and 8 without banding.

I've tried BT.2020 with many, many other gamma combinations, color intensities, color space settings, etc. and they always required severe settings that never quite equaled the moderate ones I use that appear to have much better color accuracy and pop. Thankfully, I have plenty of choices to dial in. I especially like using unique settings for SDR vs HDR because sharing settings makes one or the other not as good as it could be.
 

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After talking to Javs on all of this…I would just set your madVR calibration to Rec709... 8bit RGB … even if you have the expanded BT2020 color space on the source available. Not intuitive at all. For some reason this gives a better TM experience, especially in high nit bright scenes, such as with explosions. Colors are much more correctly staturated.
 

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The bottom one is correct, so clearly your projector is in the rec709 calibrated mode.

It's worth using a wider color gamut mode, but that's only if your display can actually display a wider color gamut and if you are OK if that mode is dimmer.

For example I am certainly using a BT.2020 gamut mode on my NX5 as it measures about 94% DCI-P3 coverage which is noticeably wider than 100% rec709. And there is no extra color filter on the NX5, so my BT.2020 gamut is not any dimmer than rec709 gamut mode.

On the Epson 5050UB I think the DCI-P3 gamut is close to 100% coverage, however it uses a wide color filter which causes the lumens to be cut in half when activated.


Measurements of the rec709 modes such as Bright Cinema and Natural are like 2000-2300 lumens (like 1800 lumens calibrated).

The BT.2020 modes with wider color gamut are only like 1000-1100 lumens calibrated.
 

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The bottom one is correct, so clearly your projector is in the rec709 calibrated mode.

It's worth using a wider color gamut mode, but that's only if your display can actually display a wider color gamut and if you are OK if that mode is dimmer.

For example I am certainly using a BT.2020 gamut mode on my NX5 as it measures about 94% DCI-P3 coverage which is noticeably wider than 100% rec709. And there is no extra color filter on the NX5, so my BT.2020 gamut is not any dimmer than rec709 gamut mode.

On the Epson 5050UB I think the DCI-P3 gamut is close to 100% coverage, however it uses a wide color filter which causes the lumens to be cut in half when activated.


Measurements of the rec709 modes such as Bright Cinema and Natural are like 2000-2300 lumens (like 1800 lumens calibrated).

The BT.2020 modes with wider color gamut are only like 1000-1100 lumens calibrated.
This was the answer I got, when I asked if my projector was calibrated using BT.709 or BT.2020. It doesn't really make sense, because in the bottom picture that looks correct, I have MadVR set to BT.709, and Bright Cinema mode on the 5050ub.




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Right, that's what I said.

Digital Cinema mode is one of the wider color gamut modes, so you could use BT.2020 in madVR with that mode, but you will have about half the light output because the 5050UB uses an extra color filter to extend the gamut.

Otherwise you should be using Natural with rec709.

Sounds like he calibrated Bright Cinema to BT.2020, but since Bright Cinema doesn't use the wide filter, the gamut wont be any wider, so there is no point in using it over NAtural with madVR.

The only time you would want or need to use Bright Cinema is if you had a BT.2020 output that you couldn't change to rec709 and you wanted the higher light output. So like HDR from a Disc player or streaming box, you would use Bright Cinema because you would need to be tracking BT.2020 gamut for accurate color. Unless your Disc player and streaming boxes allow outputting rec709 for HDR content.

In my experience, for HDR luminance usually trumps saturation, so I would be using the Natural rec709 mode on the 5050UB unless my screen was quite small.
 

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For example I am certainly using a BT.2020 gamut mode on my NX5 as it measures about 94% DCI-P3 coverage which is noticeably wider than 100% rec709. And there is no extra color filter on the NX5, so my BT.2020 gamut is not any dimmer than rec709 gamut mode.
There's such a JVC bias on this board, I wonder why, it just seems so arbitrary and for no reason whatsoever.

In my experience, for HDR luminance usually trumps saturation, so I would be using the Natural rec709 mode on the 5050UB unless my screen was quite small.
That's probably what I would do too, but creating a profile for BT.2020 and placing the PJ into Digital Cinema is worth playing around with to see if you notice and/or prefer the wide color.
 

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Right, that's what I said.

Digital Cinema mode is one of the wider color gamut modes, so you could use BT.2020 in madVR with that mode, but you will have about half the light output because the 5050UB uses an extra color filter to extend the gamut.

Otherwise you should be using Natural with rec709.

Sounds like he calibrated Bright Cinema to BT.2020, but since Bright Cinema doesn't use the wide filter, the gamut wont be any wider, so there is no point in using it over NAtural with madVR.

The only time you would want or need to use Bright Cinema is if you had a BT.2020 output that you couldn't change to rec709 and you wanted the higher light output. So like HDR from a Disc player or streaming box, you would use Bright Cinema because you would need to be tracking BT.2020 gamut for accurate color. Unless your Disc player and streaming boxes allow outputting rec709 for HDR content.

In my experience, for HDR luminance usually trumps saturation, so I would be using the Natural rec709 mode on the 5050UB unless my screen was quite small.
I'm shooting a 130" scope image, on a painted screen.

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I'm shooting a 130" scope image, on a painted screen.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
Yeah, there is no way ~1000 is enough for you for HDR then, so you should stick to the without wide color filter modes.
 

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So Natural, with BT.709 selected in MadVR, when viewing HDR content?

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I changed to Rec709 with my JVC RS540 (for all viewing) a little while ago and will likely not go back to the BT2020 setting with madVR in the near term.
 

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Yeah… The reason this works so well is because Rec709 was the old (standard) color space. And when madVR does HDR BT2020 TMing… it pulls (re-calculates) the BT2020 colors down to reside in that space. This is all part of the conversion of the HDR EOTF PQ to an SDR gamma equivalence. It actually destroys some of the extended BT2020 colors. It is trying to convert the input to an SDR2020 picture but (“is forced to compromise on some of the extended color data"). Especially with the higher nit data. This was a main complaint by Javs about DTM from the early days once he returned to see the “improvements“… Hue shifts were rampant.

You only need to do an “HDR pass through” madVR test (with a 400 or higher nit display) to see the discrepancies created by lower nit display TMing..

So your calibration to Rec709 is better matched to the process and should give you a better and more correct color saturation.

I changed to Rec709 with my JVC RS540 (for all viewing) a little while ago and will likely not go back to the BT2020 setting with madVR in the near term.
My complaints didn't have anything to do with rec709 I don't use that to watch movies.

Rec709 is much worse, there is tons of gamut compression trying to get colour down to that from bt2020
 
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