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Simple question and I know it has been asked before, so hopefully I don't get killed for asking. I want to know if it is necessary to get a rtx 2080 TI over a 2080 for the best upscaling from 1080p to UHD and tone mapping? The GPU is my final purchase to use with my JVC RS2000. I'm asking because I read that a rtx 2070 is really all is needed for the best PQ for upscaling to 4k and tone mapping. I was going to get the 2080 but just needed confirmation.
 

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you just have to set the decoder to DXVA copyback and you are done.

a 1060 can easily do NGU high 1080->2160p with with some reserves.
However, even a 1070 cannot do NGU high quadruple via double and double again (which really looks tons better when needed over direct quadruple). A 1060 cannot do double and double again on medium or low. This impacts 720p sources. A 1060 will struggle on 30hz content 1080p to 2160p NGU high because it cant render fast enough. Therefore, you'll have to have several rules and know how to implement them based on a bunch of factors to avoid dropped frames and also have the best quality when you can. I think a 1060 is not a good recommendation for anything outside of HDR tone mapping.
 

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Simple question and I know it has been asked before, so hopefully I don't get killed for asking. I want to know if it is necessary to get a rtx 2080 TI over a 2080 for the best upscaling from 1080p to UHD and tone mapping? The GPU is my final purchase to use with my JVC RS2000. I'm asking because I read that a rtx 2070 is really all is needed for the best PQ for upscaling to 4k and tone mapping. I was going to get the 2080 but just needed confirmation.
A 2080 should be fine, but be aware that there are configurations that can drop frames on any graphics card. Whether or not those configurations are noticeably better (or noticeable at all) is another matter. I get excellent results on my 1080ti. So your 2080 should be good, in my opinion.
 

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However, even a 1070 cannot do NGU high quadruple via double and double again (which really looks tons better when needed over direct quadruple). A 1060 cannot do double and double again on medium or low. This impacts 720p sources. A 1060 will struggle on 30hz content 1080p to 2160p NGU high because it cant render fast enough. Therefore, you'll have to have several rules and know how to implement them based on a bunch of factors to avoid dropped frames and also have the best quality when you can. I think a 1060 is not a good recommendation for anything outside of HDR tone mapping.
what an irony that an 1060 can do on an 720p source double two times NGU high(which i would never recommend) and you claim that it is looks tons better to use 2 times double over direct even through your screen shoot shows forced direct quadruple. after doubling the first time doubling doubling again will have a huge diminishing return so it was always recommended to use a lower quality scaler for that case and madshi made the extra work to create quadrupling so it doesn't matter.
and your 30 hz argument i can do the same about 60 hz.

if there is one thing i have no faith in that would be tone mapping and the needed resources it will need in the end when it is finished.
 

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Post a picture of the OSD during playback (Ctrl + J) and the model of your graphics card.
Hey I loved that movie Rock all the way.

Is your player set to Frame Rate match?

What is your graphics card? On the latest Nvidia RTX cards there is an issue with the driver. The only ones where there is no stuttering are listed on a thread on another forum

Finally I found that turning on CMD to low makes the image lot more smooth




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I haven't had a chance to go into my HT for the past few days - will post a screenshot in a couple of days. Regarding graphics hardware, I am using a GTX 1070Ti.
 

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Having an issue with jagged lines in a 3D TAB setup. Latest madvr, LAV, etc.

There is way to view a 3D Blu ray in TAB without re encoding:
1. Get MPC-BE (preferably 64-bit).
2. Options -> Internal filters -> Video decoders -> check "H264 (MVC 3D)"
3. Options -> External filters -> Add filter -> "ffdshow raw video filter" -> Prefer
4. Open BD3D and choose the following View -> Stereo 3D mode values: - Half OverUnder

In this mode whenever there are straight lines there is a jagged artifact.
Pictures attached: around the edge of the table, and the letters in the 2nd picture.

These jagged edges are not present in frame packing mode.
Using BD3D2MK3D I've made a TAB version of the file and no artifacts there either. I don't remember seeing any artifacts in any other previous TAB/SBS files.

Tried a few things:
Disabled sharpness from NVCP>Video>Adjust video image settings
Moved projector Sharpness slider.
In madvr:
Disabled all in artifact removal, image enhancements, upscaling refinement - some settings in image enhancements accentuate the problem.
Tried different settings in scaling algorithms.
Tried different dithering.
Nothing clicked in trade quality for performance.

When using this method LAV Video disappears from the taskbar and ffdshow video decoder raw is present. Only AviSynth is enabled.
If I add LAV Video as external and enable it, then there is no TAB, plays 2D image.
Tried to play around with the preferred when both ffdshow raw and LAV Video are enabled, did not work.
Tried in the next option bar External filters>Priority to select LAV splitter/source, TAB does not play.


I assume the artifacts are due to image compression.
What can be done to eliminate this issue?
 

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what an irony that an 1060 can do on an 720p source double two times NGU high(which i would never recommend) and you claim that it is looks tons better to use 2 times double over direct even through your screen shoot shows forced direct quadruple. after doubling the first time doubling doubling again will have a huge diminishing return so it was always recommended to use a lower quality scaler for that case and madshi made the extra work to create quadrupling so it doesn't matter.
and your 30 hz argument i can do the same about 60 hz.

if there is one thing i have no faith in that would be tone mapping and the needed resources it will need in the end when it is finished.
My screenshot is saved and a little old. My current settings are to double again if *any* additional scaling is needed. I spent about an hour comparing the three settings with various 720p contents:

- Double very high, double again high - This renders in 29ms on my 1080ti on average and looks the best. The image is cleanest and sharpest.
- Direct quadruple very high - My 1080TI is about 2 ms too slow to get this on all 720p sources. So it's out. However, it still didn't look as good as good as double very high, double again high. Since I cant run this, it's out. I only mention it but it's not one of the 3 settings since it cant render fast enough for me.
- Direct quadruple high - This looks the worst of all my tests. But it's the highest quality direct quadruple that rendered fast enough.
- Double very high, let madvr decide. - This is my previous setting which was what I was using prior to double and double again. This also looks a little better than direct quadruple not as nice as double and double again.

Even if direct quadruple and double/double again were identical, since my 1080ti cannot keep up with direct quadruple very high, I'd have to pick something like high. It seems the results of the first double at very high out weigh whatever direct quadruple does all at high. It may be even double very high, double again medium looks better than direct quadruple high. I didn't test this. But because going from 720p to 4k, the first step 720p to 1440p is the majority of the work, doing that at very high probably has the largest payoff.

Also, all this is being compared on a 135" screen from 7 feet away. If you were viewing from further back or on a smaller display, it would be far less obvious seeing the differences.

You're right that 60hz argument is worse but 60hz content seems to be very infrequent where true 30hz content is not that infrequent. I came across the problem watching 720p shark tank episodes.
 

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- Double very high, double again high - This renders in 29ms on my 1080ti on average and looks the best. The image is cleanest and sharpest.
- Direct quadruple very high - My 1080TI is about 2 ms too slow to get this on all 720p sources. So it's out. However, it still didn't look as good as good as double very high, double again high. Since I cant run this, it's out. I only mention it but it's not one of the 3 settings since it cant render fast enough for me.
- Direct quadruple high - This looks the worst of all my tests. But it's the highest quality direct quadruple that rendered fast enough.
- Double very high, let madvr decide. - This is my previous setting which was what I was using prior to double and double again. This also looks a little better than direct quadruple not as nice as double and double again.
not here to tell you to tell you to change this just you where heavily underestimating a 1060

Even if direct quadruple and double/double again were identical, since my 1080ti cannot keep up with direct quadruple very high, I'd have to pick something like high. It seems the results of the first double at very high out weigh whatever direct quadruple does all at high. It may be even double very high, double again medium looks better than direct quadruple high. I didn't test this. But because going from 720p to 4k, the first step 720p to 1440p is the majority of the work, doing that at very high probably has the largest payoff.
there is easily a chance that very high -> medium looks better then high quadruple as i said doubling again has a huge diminishing return. i can't test it right now but very high -> medium could be something a 1060 can do on the other hand very high has in it self very high diminishing return compared to high.
Also, all this is being compared on a 135" screen from 7 feet away. If you were viewing from further back or on a smaller display, it would be far less obvious seeing the differences.
nothing is better then a dumb PC monitor without flawed processing and size is a meaningless number it's just relative to the sitting distance. no offence but a projector has more setup related variables then an LCD screen and nothing is more important for testing scaling algorithm then a pixel perfect screen.
You're right that 60hz argument is worse but 60hz content seems to be very infrequent where true 30hz content is not that infrequent. I came across the problem watching 720p shark tank episodes.
up to this day BD, UHD BD and broadcast don't support 30 hz 60i with PsF content is the closes to it. 30 hz is something that is "only" used on the internet so take that as you want.
 

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up to this day BD, UHD BD and broadcast don't support 30 hz 60i with PsF content is the closes to it. 30 hz is something that is "only" used on the internet so take that as you want.
So what format are sports, soap operas, and local news broadcast and other non-film content on 1080i? And you're right, my shark tank episode was probably originally 720p / 60 fps with every other frame removed, it becomes 30fps, 30hz compatible.

nothing is better then a dumb PC monitor without flawed processing and size is a meaningless number it's just relative to the sitting distance. no offence but a projector has more setup related variables then an LCD screen and nothing is more important for testing scaling algorithm then a pixel perfect screen.
That's fine. I gave my display configuration as a reference only. If you sit a few inches from a 4K monitor on a PC, then yes that's better. If your monitor is not 4k but some other oddball resolution, I don't agree. The fact that I see a difference in these algorithms on my "flawed" projector means it should be that much more obvious to you.
 

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maybe maybe not. it'S not rare to send 30 hz as 60 hz because you have to.
30 hz is cheaper to produce so i point at that.
PsF is 30p in 60i i know that japan is using this for commercials often.
sports is usually 50/60 because the end user will notice the difference for sure and there is usually a lot of money involved.
 

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I have a GTX 1070ti card and wondering is that still enough to max out settings in madvr or should I invest in a better card?

I am doing HDR tone mapping with 3D LUTs for my JVC X970R projector.
 

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Having an issue with jagged lines in a 3D TAB setup.

These jagged edges are not present in frame packing mode.

What can be done to eliminate this issue?
You confirmed frame packed has no issue so what's the purpose of needing TAB for playback especially at half the resolution? Free players like MPC with madVR + LAV for main movie only as well as other players like PowerDVD full menus handle frame packed perfectly.
 

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You confirmed frame packed has no issue so what's the purpose of needing TAB for playback especially at half the resolution? Free players like MPC with madVR + LAV for main movie only as well as other players like PowerDVD full menus handle frame packed perfectly.
For using with SVP (CFI software), frame packing can do 3D [email protected] at most, while SBS/TAB can do 3D [email protected]
 

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So you have some sort of motion problem with your display that requires you to alter and band-aid playback? 99.9% of any title, including 3D titles native frame rate is 23.976 aka 24Hz and therefor ultimate playback is to match that framerate at 24Hz. Also, 60Hz is not perfectly divisible by 24 which introduces judder which I guess is why you need to further alter playback with what do you call it.... SVM CFI software? I don't understand your logic? Could you explain details why you prefer TAB at half resolution with additional software decoding in order to achieve 60Hz for a 24 Hz master?
 

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So you have some sort of motion problem with your display that requires you to alter and band-aid playback? 99.9% of any title, including 3D titles native frame rate is 23.976 aka 24Hz and therefor ultimate playback is to match that framerate at 24Hz. Also, 60Hz is not perfectly divisible by 24 which introduces judder which I guess is why you need to further alter playback with what do you call it.... SVM CFI software? I don't understand your logic? Could you explain details why you prefer TAB at half resolution with additional software decoding in order to achieve 60Hz for a 24 Hz master?
The software (SVP/Smooth Video project) is a frame interpolation (FI, Smooth Motion, etc) type software.
FFdshow (with Avisynth) added as an external filter is required for SVP.
Projectors usually support frame packing at 1080p 24Hz, but for higher refresh rates TAB/SBS needs to be used, usually 1080p 50/60 Hz (in TAB/SBS) 3D.

Since re encoding a title from frame packing to SBS/TAB would take some time, this is a quick method to achieve that, but there are some issues.
I assume it's due to MPC BE's reformatting of the image, but not sure.
Can Anti Aliasing from the NVCP be used in this case?
 

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Discussion Starter #1,076 (Edited)
I have a GTX 1070ti card and wondering is that still enough to max out settings in madvr or should I invest in a better card?

I am doing HDR tone mapping with 3D LUTs for my JVC X970R projector.
If you are able to run all of your sources without dropping any frames, I wouldn't worry about it. A 3D LUT with all the tone mapping options checked is already "maxed out" to most.

A future build of the tone mapping might push the performance requirements a little higher. Manni of AVS Forum and Doom9 owns a JVC RS2000 and thinks that a GTX 1080 Ti or better is a safer bet over the long term:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1878279#post1878279
 

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I have a GTX 1070ti card and wondering is that still enough to max out settings in madvr or should I invest in a better card?

I am doing HDR tone mapping with 3D LUTs for my JVC X970R projector.
No card exists that can "max" madVR settings. But you'l get yourself into diminishing returns. As long as you are solid with dynamic tone mapping and able to at least do a single double upscale at very high, you're set, in my opinion. If you watch a lot of 60fps source content that needs upscaling you may have a problem but even my 1080TI cant keep up with that with the same settings I use for 24fps content.
 

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The software (SVP/Smooth Video project) is a frame interpolation (FI, Smooth Motion, etc) type software.
FFdshow (with Avisynth) added as an external filter is required for SVP.
Projectors usually support frame packing at 1080p 24Hz, but for higher refresh rates TAB/SBS needs to be used, usually 1080p 50/60 Hz (in TAB/SBS) 3D.

Since re encoding a title from frame packing to SBS/TAB would take some time, this is a quick method to achieve that, but there are some issues.
I assume it's due to MPC BE's reformatting of the image, but not sure.
Can Anti Aliasing from the NVCP be used in this case?
I'm trying to wrap my head around why you need motion smoothing in the first place? If you are rendering at the native refresh rate (24Hz), there should be zero motion handling problems and zero reasons to need it to render at 60Hz instead? What mainstream movie is native 60Hz? I would think the only reason one would need to smooth motion is if their display is not 24Hz capable. Only then would you require a smooth motion algo and probably some interpolation for all the extra frames you introduce. But you previously said Frame Packed works fine and TAB doesn't leading me to believe you do have 24Hz capability. So I'm confused? Once again, why do you not just use frame packed with matched refresh rates and call it a day? So, unless you're fugged and stuck with 60Hz only, what's the point?

If you're talking about inverse telecine in NCP, I don't think it does anything for my environment. I leave it unchecked. My display auto interpolates as high as 240Hz. But I also prefer video rather than film because I prefer more precise clean look of SOE than the grainy window screen look of film and am very pleased with how far digital cameras have progressed. Tbh, I like the look of the 2160p HDR I can shoot on my cell phone better than most film shot movies. Honest. Imo, on a decent display it's hard to argue cuz the eyes don't lie.
 

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I'm trying to wrap my head around why you need motion smoothing in the first place? If you are rendering at the native refresh rate (24Hz), there should be zero motion handling problems and zero reasons to need it to render at 60Hz instead? What mainstream movie is native 60Hz? I would think the only reason one would need to smooth motion is if their display is not 24Hz capable. Only then would you require a smooth motion algo and probably some interpolation for all the extra frames you introduce. But you previously said Frame Packed works fine and TAB doesn't leading me to believe you do have 24Hz capability. So I'm confused? Once again, why do you not just use frame packed with matched refresh rates and call it a day? So, unless you're fugged and stuck with 60Hz only, what's the point?

If you're talking about inverse telecine in NCP, I don't think it does anything for my environment. I leave it unchecked. My display auto interpolates as high as 240Hz. But I also prefer video rather than film because I prefer more precise clean look of SOE than the grainy window screen look of film and am very pleased with how far digital cameras have progressed. Tbh, I like the look of the 2160p HDR I can shoot on my cell phone better than most film shot movies. Honest. Imo, on a decent display it's hard to argue cuz the eyes don't lie.
This is a subjective opinion, but depending on the title, CFI at a higher refresh rate can have great benefits over 24Fps. It's not about juddering or problems with motion handling in 24p (for the most part).
Although shot in HFR and not interpolated artificially, Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk is an excellent example of what high frame rate material can look like.
The merits of this technology has been discussed on other threads, no point in rehashing it here.
Display is Benq W2000(HT3050) which can do 3D [email protected]@24Hz.

The issue here is the jagged edges that appear in TAB mode on straight or large curvature lines. It's not that visible from the pictures, but it's similar to video games at a lower resolution without anti aliasing, which is why I asked. The settings are in NVCP>3D Settings>Manage 3D settings.
IVTC is enabled, will try to disable it tomorrow, but this issue manifest itself when the video is paused, and when SVP is not opened.
 

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If you are able to run all of your sources without dropping any frames, I wouldn't worry about it. A 3D LUT with all the tone mapping options checked is already "maxed out" to most.

A future build of the tone mapping might push the performance requirements a little higher. Manni of AVS Forum and Doom9 owns a JVC RS2000 and thinks that a GTX 1080 Ti or better is a safer bet over the long term:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1878279#post1878279
Question, I keep seeing posts about people getting a 1070 or 1080/TI but not recommending the 2080 or 2080 TI. I am pretty sure I saw that the 2080 is faster than the 1080. Any reason? I have a RTX2070 in my system. Works well but can definitely bring it to it's knees by maxing out some MadVR settings.
 
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