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madVR settings for sports

Hi all,

I am new to madvr and after two days reading and testing different settings I am happy with 4K HDR for now (staying with passthrough for now until I get a 3DLUT created). I was wondering if someone is using madVR for live TV. I am especially interested in improving sports (soccer in my case). I have a JVC7900 and while watching soccer on closeups everything is crystal clear and sharp but when the camera is zooming out to e.g. half of the soccer field I have the impression it could be better like the single players should be sharper. Any hints which madvr switches to play with to improve in this scenario. Or if someone could share his HD settings which also work for him in sports that would be great :)


NoTechi
 

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Hoping someone can help with a new setup. I just bought a JVC RS-520, EVGA GTX 1080 card with RUIPRO Fiber 33 foot cable. I've never dabbled in 4k/HDR but my research suggested this would all work well together. I tried 4K for the first time last night with Kodi DSPlayer and madvr basic settings. Also MPC-HC with madvr. When I play a 4k mkv file the projector detects it and switches to HDR mode. However, everything turns a bright a pink color, like grayscale except it's pinkscale. Otherwise non-hdr 1080p content works fine.

For that test, in madvr I had set the HDR settings to "passthrough HDR content to display" and enabled "send HDR metadata to display." When I disable metadata though the projector does not autodetect HDR (as expected), so I select HDR picture mode manually and the pink is gone with the image colors showing normal and in 4k, although somewhat dim/dull (haven't calibrated yet). I don't know if at that point I'm viewing HDR or not. How do I check to know this for certain?

Any advice?
 

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Discussion Starter #103 (Edited)
Hoping someone can help with a new setup. I just bought a JVC RS-520, EVGA GTX 1080 card with RUIPRO Fiber 33 foot cable. I've never dabbled in 4k/HDR but my research suggested this would all work well together. I tried 4K for the first time last night with Kodi DSPlayer and madvr basic settings. Also MPC-HC with madvr. When I play a 4k mkv file the projector detects it and switches to HDR mode. However, everything turns a bright a pink color, like grayscale except it's pinkscale. Otherwise non-hdr 1080p content works fine.

For that test, in madvr I had set the HDR settings to "passthrough HDR content to display" and enabled "send HDR metadata to display." When I disable metadata though the projector does not autodetect HDR (as expected), so I select HDR picture mode manually and the pink is gone with the image colors showing normal and in 4k, although somewhat dim/dull (haven't calibrated yet). I don't know if at that point I'm viewing HDR or not. How do I check to know this for certain?

Any advice?
That doesn't sound good at all. You have some troubleshooting to do.

- Did you upgrade your PC or buy a new one? If you upgraded, you should run DDU and reinstall a fresh driver. What you are describing sounds like a bad driver. Even if you didn't upgrade, I would consider running DDU.

- Try the Windows method for sending HDR metadata to the display. Set everything as before but toggle the HDR and WCG switch in Windows. You will have to turn this off when watching SDR content, but this is just for a test.

- You could try DVDFab Player to rule out madVR. It will also send the HDR metadata to the display. It is paid software, so you have to download a trial version.

- Most people using projectors are using madVR's tone mapping rather than the HDR mode of their projector. The low brightness of the projector means you aren't gaining anything in HDR mode. To use madVR's tone mapping, set your SDR color gamut and gamma in the calibration section of madVR's settings. Then, under hdr, select convert HDR content to SDR using pixel shader math. Start with a target nits of 200 nits (you can adjust the target nits higher or lower as you like), and check any of the other settings as you please. There are several different gamut mapping algorithms to try.

Try all of that and report back. madVR will tell you it's playing HDR content in its rendering stats (Ctrl + J).
 

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That doesn't sound good at all. You have some troubleshooting to do.
- Most people using projectors are using madVR's tone mapping rather than the HDR mode of their projector. The low brightness of the projector means you aren't gaining anything in HDR mode.
Thanks very much for the helpful advice. It turned out that I had my driver was set at 60Hz and HDR didn't like that. At 30Hz and below it works fine. Although like you say, it's fairly dark on projector even with lamp high in HDR mode. In the JVC threads a lot of people talk about importing gamma curves to get a nice HDR image. I haven't tried that yet. If it doesn't work then I'll follow up your madVR's tone mapping suggestion.
 

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Discussion Starter #105
Thanks very much for the helpful advice. It turned out that I had my driver was set at 60Hz and HDR didn't like that. At 30Hz and below it works fine. Although like you say, it's fairly dark on projector even with lamp high in HDR mode. In the JVC threads a lot of people talk about importing gamma curves to get a nice HDR image. I haven't tried that yet. If it doesn't work then I'll follow up your madVR's tone mapping suggestion.
You should leave your desktop at 60Hz and enable display mode switching in madVR. If you don't know how to do this, there is a set up manual in my signature.
 

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You should leave your desktop at 60Hz and enable display mode switching in madVR. If you don't know how to do this, there is a set up manual in my signature.
Thanks very much for mentioning this. I haven't tried it yet and was wondering if I should search for this in madVR or Kodi.
 

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Hey @madshi,

Thanks so much for all your work on MadVR, and helping advance the science around HDR > SDR quality playback.

I was wondering if you have ever considered implementing some of your transform techniques into ffmpeg? I think about scenarios like Plex transcoding that currently are unable to correctly convert HDR content to SDR as part of the realtime transcode (which relies on FFMPEG). Scenarios like this would massively benefit from your work. Sure, I can directplay plex content to a client with MadVR, but scenarios where that isn't possible (web browser play, mobile devices, and offline syncing for example) are still lacking.

I'm no developer, and can only assume the work to do something like this is not at all trivial, but figured I'd ask if this is something you've considered or which interests you.

Thanks again for all your efforts on MadVR, we have all benefited from it.
 

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Discussion Starter #108
Hey @madshi,

Thanks so much for all your work on MadVR, and helping advance the science around HDR > SDR quality playback.

I was wondering if you have ever considered implementing some of your transform techniques into ffmpeg? I think about scenarios like Plex transcoding that currently are unable to correctly convert HDR content to SDR as part of the realtime transcode (which relies on FFMPEG). Scenarios like this would massively benefit from your work. Sure, I can directplay plex content to a client with MadVR, but scenarios where that isn't possible (web browser play, mobile devices, and offline syncing for example) are still lacking.

I'm no developer, and can only assume the work to do something like this is not at all trivial, but figured I'd ask if this is something you've considered or which interests you.

Thanks again for all your efforts on MadVR, we have all benefited from it.
I think FFMPEG leaves this up to the software. madshi isn't reinventing something that hasn't been invented before. Numerous tone mapping algorithms can be found on the Web and other places. There is nothing special about tone mapping to SDR compared to tone mapping for an HDR display or tone mapping for digital photography.

Plex relies on MPV, which uses common tone mapping algorithms such as Hable and Reinhard. I don't know if this is simply not possible when transcoding, but should be an option with direct play.
 

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Hi,

I've played with many of the settings in madVR and they have helped tremendously with the playback of 2160p/23 HDR rips but I notice that some of the movies are darker when compared to the original disk.

Increasing brightness on the 4k tv and htpc helped a little but increasing brightness beyond a certain point resulted in an overly bright picture.

Should I concentrate on the gamma settings in madVR and nVidia control panel for my 1050Ti to resolve the darkness issue or should I be looking somewhere else in the settings?

Any information would be appreciated.

Thank you for reading.
 

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Discussion Starter #110
Hi,

I've played with many of the settings in madVR and they have helped tremendously with the playback of 2160p/23 HDR rips but I notice that some of the movies are darker when compared to the original disk.

Increasing brightness on the 4k tv and htpc helped a little but increasing brightness beyond a certain point resulted in an overly bright picture.

Should I concentrate on the gamma settings in madVR and nVidia control panel for my 1050Ti to resolve the darkness issue or should I be looking somewhere else in the settings?

Any information would be appreciated.

Thank you for reading.
The image shouldn't be any darker than your UHD Blu-ray player. This sounds like something is not configured correctly.

I would start with the display. Are you using a PC input or any other display setting that would differ from the Blu-ray player? The color gamut and settings in HDR mode can be completely different when set to PC or Game. Confirm the display is using the same settings across inputs and there is no difference in the type of input. You should check the display calibration settings during HDR playback.

Second, it could be the video levels are not being displayed correctly. Can you try each of these settings and report back:

madVR Limited -> GPU Full -> TV Limited

madVR Full -> GPU Limited -> TV Limited

madVR Full -> GPU Full -> TV Full (change the HDMI black level to full range)

Lastly, don't change the brightness of the HTPC. Set everything in the GPU control panel to be controlled by the media player and any other color controls to its defaults. The same goes for madVR.

Are you using HDR -> SDR tone mapping rather than straight passthrough? I assume not, but it is a possibility.
 

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Hi,

I've played with many of the settings in madVR and they have helped tremendously with the playback of 2160p/23 HDR rips but I notice that some of the movies are darker when compared to the original disk.

Increasing brightness on the 4k tv and htpc helped a little but increasing brightness beyond a certain point resulted in an overly bright picture.

Should I concentrate on the gamma settings in madVR and nVidia control panel for my 1050Ti to resolve the darkness issue or should I be looking somewhere else in the settings?

Any information would be appreciated.

Thank you for reading.
I think dynamic luminance is on the to-do list and will be released in a future version when madshi isn't busy with work.

Did you try my gamma tweak a couple posts above?
 
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@Onkyoman, @sonichart

Thanks for the helpful hints. I will have a chance to try your suggestions tomorrow and report back.

Edit:

I reset and made the following changes to the LG 4k HDR/DV TV:

  1. all inputs were set up as regular HDMI inputs (I could choose HDMI, PC, game console, set top box, etc.);
  2. enabled "auto" for colour gamut whereby the gamut is automatically adjusted to match the input signal; and
  3. enabled "Deep Color" for all inputs.
For the HTPC, I reset all of the nVidia control panel and madVR settings to the default values and made changes as shown in the attached pictures.

Not sure what happened but things look much better now. Maybe I had the wrong gamma settings in madVR or nVidia CP? I'm not sure. I was getting a lot of black crush and loss of detail in darker scenes in movies like John Wick 1 & 2 4k.
 

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Discussion Starter #113
There are a few things I would change based on those photos:

- Disable gamma processing. This is unnecessary if things are configured correctly. Same goes for raising the brightness in madVR. Set these all to 0.

- In Calibration you have the gamut set to BT.2020, but the TV is set to Auto. This setting only impacts SDR mode, so your display will likely be showing BT.709, not BT.2020. Calibration does not impact HDR passthrough, just SDR mode. And the gamma value is not used unless gamma processing is enabled.

- You should set your desktop to 60Hz, 8 bpc, Full. Switch to 30Hz, 29 Hz, 25Hz, 24Hz and 23Hz one at a time. Set each to 12 bpc and save. Then your desktop is at 8-bits Full and video playback is 12 bpc Full. Then enable display mode switching in madVR under display modes.

- Rather than use Nvidia color settings, set everything to be controlled by the media player.

If the image is still too dark, the only change I would make would be to change the gamma processing in madVR, but not before calibrating my display.

Look up your display at Rtings.com. They provide some base calibration settings to work with.
 

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There are a few things I would change based on those photos:

- Disable gamma processing. This is unnecessary if things are configured correctly. Same goes for raising the brightness in madVR. Set these all to 0.

- In Calibration you have the gamut set to BT.2020, but the TV is set to Auto. This setting only impacts SDR mode, so your display will likely be showing BT.709, not BT.2020. Calibration does not impact HDR passthrough, just SDR mode. And the gamma value is not used unless gamma processing is enabled.

- You should set your desktop to 60Hz, 8 bpc, Full. Switch to 30Hz, 29 Hz, 25Hz, 24Hz and 23Hz one at a time. Set each to 12 bpc and save. Then your desktop is at 8-bits Full and video playback is 12 bpc Full. Then enable display mode switching in madVR under display modes.

- Rather than use Nvidia color settings, set everything to be controlled by the media player.

If the image is still too dark, the only change I would make would be to change the gamma processing in madVR, but not before calibrating my display.

Look up your display at Rtings.com. They provide some base calibration settings to work with.
Thank you for the suggestions.

I assume that points 1 and 2 are for madVR and points 3 and 4 are for nVidia CP.

I will make the changes and report back.

Edit:

I disabled all colour adjustments in the nVidia control panel and set the refresh for 60 to 8 BPC, 30/29/25/24/23 to 12 BPC, and output to RGB full.

In madVR, I disabled all gamma process and ran it with the default settings.

I used The Matrix 1080p/SDR starting at the 2:10 time mark for testing gamma changes. This scene showed a lot of black crush on the officer's uniform. I started making changes in madVR under my device settings.

I used John Wick 4k at the 00:55 time mark for testing gamma changes. This scene showed a lot of black crush in John's grey/black suit.

Although I got SDR material to look good, I still had some trouble with HDR image.

I'll have to play around some more with the settings as there certainly seem to be a lot of settings.

Thanks again for all of your help.
 

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There are a few things I would change based on those photos:

- Disable gamma processing. This is unnecessary if things are configured correctly. Same goes for raising the brightness in madVR. Set these all to 0.
This was my suggestion. I used gamma 1.95 in conjunction with gammut BT.2020 power curve 2.35 along with HDR->SDR Processing.

To my eyes, the gamma processing improved dark HDR movies without blowing highlights but sacrificed color clipping at about 500 nits.

I found the picture to be pleasing to my eyes, but ultimately disabled it out of fear for what else it was doing to the picture.
 

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Discussion Starter #116 (Edited)
Thank you for the suggestions.

I assume that points 1 and 2 are for madVR and points 3 and 4 are for nVidia CP.

I will make the changes and report back.

Edit:

I disabled all colour adjustments in the nVidia control panel and set the refresh for 60 to 8 BPC, 30/29/25/24/23 to 12 BPC, and output to RGB full.

In madVR, I disabled all gamma process and ran it with the default settings.

I used The Matrix 1080p/SDR starting at the 2:10 time mark for testing gamma changes. This scene showed a lot of black crush on the officer's uniform. I started making changes in madVR under my device settings.

I used John Wick 4k at the 00:55 time mark for testing gamma changes. This scene showed a lot of black crush in John's grey/black suit.

Although I got SDR material to look good, I still had some trouble with HDR image.

I'll have to play around some more with the settings as there certainly seem to be a lot of settings.

Thanks again for all of your help.
The problem you started with is that you said you Blu-ray disc player looks different than your HTPC. Is this still the case? madVR is just sending colored pixels to the display with HDR metadata, so the image should be close to identical. Something is wrong with your display or madVR. Many other users with LG OLEDs are not having this issue.

Did you take my advice and use the calibration settings provided by Rtings.com? You shouldn't be messing with the gamma and brightness in madVR. This should all be done at the display level. And the gamma adjustments in madVR will only impact SDR playback. HDR playback is unaffected.

Black crush with HDR playback may not be completely abnormal and comes down to the quality of the tone mapping done by the display. But madVR shouldn't be causing the tone mapping to be different than your Blu-ray player connected to the same input. There are other LG owners out there that are doing this successfully.

Did you try this suggestion?

The video levels may not be displaying correctly. Can you try each of these settings and report back:

madVR Limited -> GPU Full -> TV Limited

madVR Full -> GPU Limited -> TV Limited

madVR Full -> GPU Full -> TV Full (change the HDMI black level to full range)
 

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The problem you started with is that you said you Blu-ray disc player looks different than your HTPC. Is this still the case? madVR is just sending colored pixels to the display with HDR metadata, so the image should be close to identical. Something is wrong with your display or madVR. Many other users with LG OLEDs are not having this issue.

Did you take my advice and use the calibration settings provided by Rtings.com? You shouldn't be messing with the gamma and brightness in madVR. This should all be done at the display level. And the gamma adjustments in madVR will only impact SDR playback. HDR playback is unaffected.

Black crush with HDR playback may not be completely abnormal and comes down to the quality of the tone mapping done by the display. But madVR shouldn't be causing the tone mapping to be different than your Blu-ray player connected to the same input. There are other LG owners out there that are doing this successfully.

Did you try this suggestion?

The video levels may not be displaying correctly. Can you try each of these settings and report back:

madVR Limited -> GPU Full -> TV Limited

madVR Full -> GPU Limited -> TV Limited

madVR Full -> GPU Full -> TV Full (change the HDMI black level to full range)
I finally got a chance to test different settings and resolved the issues. Here's what I did:


  1. disabled all nVidia Control Panel colour options, set output to full RGB, and set the screen refresh rates as mentioned in your previous post;
  2. enabled HDR passthrough and send HDR metadata in madVR;
  3. set resolutions in madVR of 1080p23, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p29, 1080p30, 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30;
  4. changed madVR's TV setting from full to limited;
  5. changed gamma level on LG TV, nothing else;
  6. changed HDMI cable running from nVidia card to HDTV.

Thanks for all of your suggestions.
 

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Discussion Starter #118
I finally got a chance to test different settings and resolved the issues. Here's what I did:


  1. disabled all nVidia Control Panel colour options, set output to full RGB, and set the screen refresh rates as mentioned in your previous post;
  2. enabled HDR passthrough and send HDR metadata in madVR;
  3. set resolutions in madVR of 1080p23, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p29, 1080p30, 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30;
  4. changed madVR's TV setting from full to limited;
  5. changed gamma level on LG TV, nothing else;
  6. changed HDMI cable running from nVidia card to HDTV.

Thanks for all of your suggestions.
Glad you got it working.

I would suggest removing the 1080p entries from the display modes category. Otherwise, madVR won't upscale 1080p sources. You should also add 2160p50, 2160p59 and 2160p60 for 4K demo content with frame rates higher than 30 fps.
 

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Glad you got it working.

I would suggest removing the 1080p entries from the display modes category. Otherwise, madVR won't upscale 1080p sources. You should also add 2160p50, 2160p59 and 2160p60 for 4K demo content with frame rates higher than 30 fps.
The only content I have is 2160p23 at the moment but I will definitely add and remove the resolutions when I get home.

Thanks again for all of your help.
 

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I was facing some weird color issues when playing 4k mkvs so based on Onkyman's suggestion I downloaded the DDU app and did a clean install of Nvidia drivers. Just testing playback in MPC-HC, I set the video decoder as DVXA (copy-back) and did not make any changes in madVR configuration. DirectShow Video under MPC-HC is set as madVR. 4k plays flawlessly and Atmos is being bitstreamed perfectly. HDR data is not being transferred because my projector does not automatically switch to HDR mode. None the less switching manually works and picture looks great. No longer see the weird colors that I was seeing before.

Following are some outstanding issues:

- Embedded subtitles do not work in MPC-HC.

- Some of my blu-ray rips have PCM audio (wave?) and when playing through MPC-HC, I don't get any sound. My AVR shows it as PCM but no sound. These used to work fine before so I'm sure it has something to do with settings.

- Desktop resolution shows as 4K/24p. I was expecting it to be 1080p/60 (as recommended under Windows Display Settings) but if I change the setting projector does not like it and all I get is black screen. Similarly, turning HDR option in Windows bring black screen.

- Lastly, for some reason 3D has stopped working. When I play a 3D mkv via Kodi, it recognizes as 3D and play in Side by Sisde format but projector does not recognize it as 3D and does not turn on the 3D mode (manually changing doesn't work either). Playing 3D blu-ray via Xbone X plays flawlessly so this is definitely a setting issue as well.
 
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