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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Canon 5D Mark III RAW video will now have much better dynamic range, sharpness, be much better for grading, even better low light thanks to the extra dynamic range and ability to life shadows, etc. Canon crippled it to hell and Magic Lantern has unleashed pretty close to the holy grail; A Full Frame RAW cinema camera that also shoots high MP stills, has much better low light performance than even a Red Epic, all the magic lantern professional shooting hacks, HDR mode for video, etc.


http://nofilmschool.com/2013/05/1080p-raw-video-canon-5d-mark-iii-anamorphic/?utm_campaign=twitter&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
WOW Absolutely Stunningly gorgeous new RAW 5D Mark III footage that is simply in Alexa/Red Epic territory and FULL FRAME! WOW. Be sure to enable HD mode. If this build becomes stable and doesn't hurt the sensor or anything we have something TRULY revolutionary in the works here.



I have come across people canceling their Alexa, Red Epic and BlackMagic Orders after viewing this video. That's pretty crazy I think. Crossing my fingers hoping it ends up stable and usable in the field, because it will be one hell of an all in one camera.


 

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MT - I am excited about it too (so excited I did a blog post on it) but I haven't cancelled my Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Cam order. $3400+ for a 5D Mark III is still a lot of money for the "full frame look".


Also, a few caveats that I have parsed out after a couple of days of looking at this:


1) The ML firmware modification kills the camera's internal audio recording capability. So you'll have to go back to dual system.


2) According to 5D MkIII RAW tester lourenco121 , the ML firmware mod only works with Canon firmware version 1.1.3 - and not the later 1.2.1


3) According to Freya Black at RedShark News , the ML firmware crops the sensor - so you lose some of the vaunted "full frame" advantage


With all of this said, it is still an amazing accomplishment, and I will continue to follow it closely.


Great times to be a filmmaker!


Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba  /t/1472487/magic-lantern-enables-co...ll-frame-canon-5d-mark-iii-epic#post_23314560


This is great for 5D MKIII shooters but the Sony FS700 shoots 4K raw @60fps with 15 stops of DR.


http://www.eoshd.com/content/10110/odyssey7q-turns-wimpy-sony-fs700-into-monstrous-4k-raw-crunching-beast-with-15-stops-dr

Yeah, but the FS700 is nearly $8,000 for the body alone (more than twice the price), is going to require an expensive (possibly a couple grand I've heard) hardware update + an expensive recorder that's a minimum of $2,500. You may be looking at $13,000+ for the body only. Massive difference in price, hence far less interesting, imo. Nice camera though. Also, I don't know if I trust the "15 stops" DR rating. He rated the FS700 without RAW at 14 stops while other testers had it at around 11.5 max. So, I do have my doubts about that until I see other claims backing it up.


BTW, new RAW video comparing against the BMCC
:

 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by brunerww  /t/1472487/magic-lantern-enables-co...ll-frame-canon-5d-mark-iii-epic#post_23313699


MT - I am excited about it too (so excited I did a blog post on it) but I haven't cancelled my Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Cam order. $3400+ for a 5D Mark III is still a lot of money for the "full frame look".


Also, a few caveats that I have parsed out after a couple of days of looking at this:


1) The ML firmware modification kills the camera's internal audio recording capability. So you'll have to go back to dual system.
Hopefully they'll figure this out, but I'm willing to do it. Zoom H4N.

Quote:
2) According to 5D MkIII RAW tester lourenco121 , the ML firmware mod only works with Canon firmware version 1.1.3 - and not the later 1.2.1
Guess a lot of people won't be "upgrading" their firmware then. lol.
Quote:
3) According to Freya Black at RedShark News , the ML firmware crops the sensor - so you lose some of the vaunted "full frame" advantage
I'm assuming it must not be much of a loss since most videos are advertising the "full frame" advantage and the new one I just saw I can clearly see that "full frame" look. Either way as long as it's APS-C or less crop I'm happy. lol.


Apparently the T3i may be getting RAW as well but at lower resolutions. Who knows....maybe 480p RAW will be sharper than their 1080p H.264 video. haha.

Quote:
With all of this said, it is still an amazing accomplishment, and I will continue to follow it closely.


Great times to be a filmmaker
Hybrid Camera Revolution

It really is! This could be huge on the industry. It may force Canon to make some big video upgrades in the near future. A Canon guy on Twitter is already either doing damage control trying to spread fear about the hack or maybe it really is dangerous (we'll find out soon enough) to the sensor. He claims RAW video is coming, but of course neglected to say how soon or for how much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Looks like the T3i may get RAW too, albeit at lower resolutions. I just saw a video at 1280x540p RAW and it already looks much sharper & better than the H.264 codec. lol. Would be nice to have a $500-$600 near Super 35mm camera capable of cinematic dynamic range.


Now this is only test footage at the moment, so it has some magenta macroblocking issues due to using a slow card, but already the potential I can see.



T3i RAW vs H.264
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Andrew Reid says the Mark III now beats the Canon C300 in low light. That's incredible. Great videos, btw. I saw the Smith Rock one the other day. The workflow is very helpful. They've really increased the value of these cameras tremendously. I hope they get it up and running on the T3i. I'd be he plenty happy with that 1280x540p video I saw above if they can get it recording stable. It's still far more detailed and sharp than their 1080p H.264 files. Would be a great cheap way to get into cheap RAW cinema recording.


What's funny is some Canon guy on Twitter was warning people about overheating and frying your sensor saying that the heat warning didn't work for RAW, blah blah blah, and it turns out this hack doesn't effect your sensor heat at all. It's just the live view that's always there. lol. It's just what I thought when I read his tweets....DAMAGE CONTROL.


I understand crippling your cameras to some degree to protect higher end lines, but Canon and some others go way too far with crippling of their cameras and lack of innovation. They milk these long drawn out gradual upgrades through several long years...sometimes releasing upgrades that upgrades everything except the image quality.


BlackMagic had to come out of the woodwork and show everyone how its done. Then the hackers at Magic Lantern had to show Canon how it's done yet again. Only this time it could have a real effect on their future product lines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Look like they have got audio working. It's getting more and more exciting!
From their Facebook page:


"There has been a lot of progress over the past few days - the devs are working hard to refine things to be more user friendly. Here's a list of new developments from the past couple days:

- All tearing / stuttering issues have been resolved, video is smooth now.

- Raw burst looks possible for 500d and 550d.

- Raw playback in camera is working (will play back at normal speed eventually)

- Audio recording to separate .WAV file works while recording raw video.

- Updated list of cameras supporting RAW video now: 5D2, 5D3, 6D, 600D, 650D (brand new)


We believe raw video will be possible on all cameras, but it is still very early in development. Cameras with CF cards work best - SD cards will only work at lower resolutions. Older DIGIC 4 cameras will work at very low resolution.


Raw playback first implementation by Alex:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RQ56Qc-jlk


5D3 vs Blackmagic high-iso:
http://www.eoshd.com/content/10351/new-5d-raw-developments-plus-my-low-light-comparison-with-blackmagic-cinema-camera


Workflow sample video with Mac OS X:
http://www.cinema5d.com/?p=18065


5D3 Samples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm8A7FH2Qg4


5D2 Samples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW5QqQUC8jM



Right now breakthroughs are happening daily, follow us on twitter to stay updated: @autoexec_bin


If you're interested in testing, head over to our forum:
www.magiclantern.fm/forum "
 

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Mm i guess i am missing something,but the only film of the various posts i found fair quality was the last film despite poor filming,anyway if i am missing something what is the cheapest and easiest to use software for me a getting past my best intellectual years guy that will edit raw.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus  /t/1472487/magic-lantern-enables-co...ll-frame-canon-5d-mark-iii-epic#post_23332271


Mm i guess i am missing something,but the only film of the various posts i found fair quality was the last film despite poor filming,anyway if i am missing something what is the cheapest and easiest to use software for me a getting past my best intellectual years guy that will edit raw.

Are you missing something? Vision perhaps? JK.
Please make sure to click and enable HD, btw. Maybe that's why? I must say I am truly flabbergasted at your perception if that's not the reason.
lol. Almost speechless really. I'm not so sure the great Arri Alexa or Red Epic would be good enough for you, man. lol.



Can you please show us what you think looks good for reference? I'm truly intrigued based on your responses to see what you find to be good video in a decent price range? That first video I posted looks absolutely phenomenal and right up there with to be Alexa/Red Epic quality, yet it's not even fair quality in your eyes? Hence, my desire to see some camcorder footage you find good or great. You certainly cannot get that level of quality/dynamic range out of ANY prosumer camcorder. It's a dream come true! Start grading RAWs and you'll see how much power they have. It can be addictive. A/B videos have already been posted against the Epic and the Mark III RAW was neck and neck with it.


Adobe After Effects CS5, CS5.5 or CS6 is your best bet for grading editing Canon RAW. There's a RAW workflow video just above.


Here is an EXTREME harsh contrast stress test of back lit tress while the sun is setting to show the power of RAW vs typical 8-bit compressed video and its far superior grading ability & dynamic range. If this doesn't make you a believer nothing will. lol.
This test show's the Mark III's H.264 compression vs RAW. The Mark III has higher dynamic range already than average consumer or prosumer camcorders, so the H.264 sample in this dynamic range stress test you see wouldn't be produced any better with another prosumer camcorder in regards do light to dark detail. See he miracle of RAW and be sure to click to "View on YouTube", click "1080p" and view full screen if you want to see the full quality.
 

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The impact of 5D Mark III raw video and what does Vincent Laforet think? :
Quote:
Vincent Laforet’s thoughts on 5D Mark III raw


Vincent Laforet is a photographer and filmmaker with a high profile track record in using DSLRs at the high end of video and movie production.


I asked his thoughts about the recent developments -


Vincent: Too little too late in my opinion. C Series and other cameras are what people should be focusing on… but I am looking into it to be honest… the RAW (sic) is cool – just the HDSLR limitations are still pretty severe relative to other cameras and production needs.


EOSHD: What do you think the biggest hindrance is – Hack reliability? File sizes?


Vincent: Hack reliability – and can the body TRULY survive doing this over time (heat/damage?)
http://www.eoshd.com/content/10407/the-impact-of-5d-mark-iii-raw-video-and-what-does-vincent-laforet-think-of-it
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba  /t/1472487/magic-lantern-enables-co...ll-frame-canon-5d-mark-iii-epic#post_23333325


The impact of 5D Mark III raw video and what does Vincent Laforet think? :
http://www.eoshd.com/content/10407/the-impact-of-5d-mark-iii-raw-video-and-what-does-vincent-laforet-think-of-it

I personally find his opinion irrelevant. He probably has a Canon C300 & is happy to have paid $16,000 for 8-bit compressed video because it has built in ND filters....albeit capable/good 8-bit video, but still very limited in post by comparison to RAW. It's already been said that the hack has no real effect on heat of the sensor, because it's only taking from the Live View buffer, which is always running when live view is on. I think the main hurdle is removing the 4GB file size limit.


I wish he'd go into detail about how/why it's supposedly "Too little too late", because I'm wondering what he's smoking considering there is NO full frame RAW camera on the market. If Canon released this camera they'd charge at least $20,000-$30,000 for it.. Canon hasn't released anything else near that price capable of 14-bit RAW. Only BlackMagic has released such a thing in the price range, but it's 2.3x crop for the original (and 3x for the pocket) and low light is pretty decent, but not as great as the mark III, which is said to be better than the C300 with this hack. Also the the Mark III doesn't suffer from moire/aliasing of the BMCC (though an OLPF will released for it soon I hear). The BMCC with speedbooster will be the closest thing, becoming super 35mm 1-stop faster for low light, but that's still far away from full frame.


It's kind of hard to focus on the "C" line when Canon is too busy ********ting us all releasing 8-bit video for small fortunes, the cheapest one still costing $5,500. Most of us don't want to pay a fortune for 8-bit video with built-in ND filters, especially not narrative filmmakers where post grading matters a lot. Corporate work/Wedding Videography is a different story. The C100 is a nice camera, but the price is laughable. The Mark III is now also the only RAW camera capable of 60p under $13,000.


The Hitler videos are always great. lol.
 

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The skepticism of the former leaders of the revolution is a little disappointing. Bloom , Laforet and Nate Weber at wideopencamera are all "less than enthusiastic". At least Blackmagic has had the good sense to keep quiet (so far).


I respect these guys, but don't think they realize how elitest they sound to people who would never have had the freedom to experiment with RAW video without this gift from Magic Lantern.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by brunerww  /t/1472487/magic-lantern-enables-co...ll-frame-canon-5d-mark-iii-epic#post_23333772


The skepticism of the former leaders of the revolution is a little disappointing. Bloom , Laforet and Nate Weber at wideopencamera are all "less than enthusiastic". At least Blackmagic has had the good sense to keep quiet (so far).


I respect these guys, but don't think they realize how elitest they sound to people who would never have had the freedom to experiment with RAW video without this gift from Magic Lantern.
I like Bloom. He's a cool guy, and while he does think the hack is "brilliant" (his words), he doesn't seem to care much for shooting RAW too much. I believe he shoots most of his BMCC tests with ProRes.


I think I found my perfect combo. 5D Mark III and BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera. I was heavy on the fence about which cameras to get because nearly every one of them were missing something important that another one had, and the ones that had it all cost too darn much. I was even considering the expensive Sony F3. My main things I wanted were; 1: Great dynamic range. 2: Great low light. 3: Low or no compress 4: Ability to have low or no crop ratio on lenses. 5: RAW and/or S-LOG recording. Now, for $4,500 I can have A full frame RAW cinema camera that shoots very sharp high dynamic range full frame video with fantastic low light ability and even 60p as well as shoot high MP stills as well as a very high dynamic range pocket cinema camera that can record ProRes HQ or RAW, has decent low light and can be upgraded to 1 stop faster and around MFT crop with speedbooster. For both of those and speedbooster that's still less than one Canon C100 8-bit video camcorder.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTyson  /t/1472487/magic-lantern-enables-co...ll-frame-canon-5d-mark-iii-epic#post_23332343


Are you missing something? Vision perhaps? JK.
Please make sure to click and enable HD, btw. Maybe that's why? I must say I am truly flabbergasted at your perception if that's not the reason.
lol. Almost speechless really. I'm not so sure the great Arri Alexa or Red Epic would be good enough for you, man. lol.



Can you please show us what you think looks good for reference? I'm truly intrigued based on your responses to see what you find to be good video in a decent price range? That first video I posted looks absolutely phenomenal and right up there with to be Alexa/Red Epic quality, yet it's not even fair quality in your eyes? Hence, my desire to see some camcorder footage you find good or great. You certainly cannot get that level of quality/dynamic range out of ANY prosumer camcorder. It's a dream come true! Start grading RAWs and you'll see how much power they have. It can be addictive. A/B videos have already been posted against the Epic and the Mark III RAW was neck and neck with it.


Adobe After Effects CS5, CS5.5 or CS6 is your best bet for grading editing Canon RAW. There's a RAW workflow video just above.


Here is an EXTREME harsh contrast stress test of back lit tress while the sun is setting to show the power of RAW vs typical 8-bit compressed video and its far superior grading ability & dynamic range. If this doesn't make you a believer nothing will. lol.
This test show's the Mark III's H.264 compression vs RAW. The Mark III has higher dynamic range already than average consumer or prosumer camcorders, so the H.264 sample in this dynamic range stress test you see wouldn't be produced any better with another prosumer camcorder in regards do light to dark detail. See he miracle of RAW and be sure to click to "View on YouTube", click "1080p" and view full screen if you want to see the full quality.

Well i expected my hand to be bitten off,i have never used a black magic camera so cant comment on personal use,but i have owned and used canon DSLRs and far prefer the video from my camcorder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7gOOZLObXKM the lower resolution plus m & A are downers for me,i have seen videos comparing the GH3 and 5Dmk iii the GH3 won but you will never see it that way,at least we agree to differ.My eyes can see the difference in your raw v H264 it does clearly show.
A GH3 5D mk iii test,i have no GH3 bias i have sold my GH2.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus  /t/1472487/magic-lantern-enables-co...ll-frame-canon-5d-mark-iii-epic#post_23335149


Well i expected my hand to be bitten off,i have never used a black magic camera so cant comment on personal use,but i have owned and used canon DSLRs and far prefer the video from my camcorder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7gOOZLObXKM the lower resolution plus m & A are downers for me,
Could be the YouTube compression, but I thought both looked pretty underwhelming in that 60D/XA10 comparison video, and that's coming from a Canon T2i owner. The problem is you're thinking of the Canon DSLR recording H.264 that you have used and a Canon DSLR recording RAW video as the same camera and ability. A Canon DSLR shooting H.264 internally is not even remotely close to the same as the same Canon DSLR shooting RAW video. Shooting RAW is on an entirely different level. Canon DSLRs are known for soft HD video (Canon crippled them that way) and I even find they need Cinestyle to give me close the dynamic range I want....standard and neutral do not cut it for me a lot of the time. Canon RAW video is far more detailed and much sharper than the H.264 video it normally records. Not only that, but it has much better color depth and dynamic range. Heck, it's even sharper and more detailed recording 1280x540p RAW than the 1920x1080p it normally records.


You can even see the difference in this 720p video showing the Mark III H.264 vs RAW on a beach. The difference in clarity even at the lower resolution is obvious and in 1080p it's only more apparent. The difference in dynamic range and ability to grade is in another realm. You can get so many looks with raw.


Beach H.264 vs RAW


Another example of new found Canon sharpness/clarity:
http://vimeo.com/channels/529954/66468924


And another:

http://vimeo.com/channels/529954/66522040


One last one shows some beautiful shots of the ocean and some good landscape stuff. It's far sharper even at Vimeo 720p than the 1080p you get from it normally.

http://vimeo.com/channels/529954/66450322

Quote:
i have seen videos comparing the GH3 and 5Dmk iii the GH3 won but you will never see it that way,at least we agree to differ.

My eyes can see the difference in your raw v H264 it does clearly show.
A GH3 5D mk iii test,i have no GH3 bias i have sold my GH2.

Actually, I never said the GH3 didn't beat the Mark III under normal H.264 recording, it's very possible that it does in the eyes of many, but the MarK III easily beats the GH3 when its recording RAW video, unless someone screws up the post grade. It's just as sharp if not sharper, retains much more highlight and dark detail and has much better color depth. You're still thinking of the Mark III as the same H.264 recording camera as before when it's recording RAW sensor data. When recording RAW it's basically an entirely new camera with a new sensor, workflow, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus  /t/1472487/magic-lantern-enables-co...ll-frame-canon-5d-mark-iii-epic#post_23336071


Dear oh dear the XA10 blew the 60D away,

1: Blew it away still isn't saying much, because neither one looked particularly good in that test. It could partly be down to YouTube's crappy compression. The 60D looked fairly poor in the video and while the XA10 had some advantages its contrast and tones were very videoy and harsh. And anyone who is not using Canon DSLRs with Cinestyle is missing out on even its H.264 capabilities, which are still absolutely nowhere near the RAW capabilities. I don't know what the 60D vs the XA10 proves or how it shows absolutely anything regarding the Mark III shooting RAW video. It's like comparing Apples to Fried Eggs. Both are far away from RAW video and aren't even worth mentioning in the same sentence, to be honest. Shooting RAW sensor data retains all the data the sensor is actually capable of showing and can be manipulated in nearly anyway one sees fit in post.

Quote:
The GH3 can shoot raw as well and it won against the 5Diii,not that i will be using either
2: LOL. No, sorry, but the GH3 absolutely does not shoot RAW video. Very very few video cameras under $15,000 shoot RAW video. The only ones that do are: BlackMagic Cinema Camera, Ikonoscope, KineRAW, Red Scarlet, Red One. The Gh3 does not. So, using that as an example of the GH3 beating the Mark III shooting H.264 as the reason it also beats a Mark III shooting RAW video is not only a bad example, but is poor logic based on lack of understanding of RAW video and that the Mark III shooting RAW is an entirely different camera when shooting RAW vs. H.264. The GH3 can beat the Mark III all day shooting regular compressed or uncompressed video, but when the Mark III starts shooting RAW video the Gh3 is no longer in the same league. Your error in comparing the GH3 beating the Mark III shooting 8-bit soft video with probably 9 stops of usable dynamic range is thinking that the outcome has any relevance to how the Gh3 would perform against the Mark III shooting uncrippled sharp RAW 14-Bit video with 12-13 stops of usable dynamic range. It has no relevance.
 
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