Magnavox 557, 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575
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14,210 Posts
Don't think so. You should be OK based on my experience with my basic analog cable from TW. Here are the DIGITAL channels my LCD TV gets compared to the same channels in my 3575:
Net.........TV CH.....3575 CH
CW21.......60-703...60.1
Fox6HD....60-706...60.2
My68........60-711...60.3
DiscHD......75-10....75.1
ESPNHD....76-1......76.1
TNT.TV.....78-300...78.1
TBS.com...83-205...83.3
ESPN2HD..83-754...83.4
Somehow the 3575 finds those channels "in the clear" (not scrambled) and assigns them its own single-digit number.
One thing of note: when I did my original scan, the two 83.x channels weren't picked up. I only knew they were there when I got my new LCD TV. Used Manual Channel Preset to enter 83, but it said Scrambled, went to 83.2, same thing, went to 83.3 and 83.4, and there they were!
Not sure if those two channels were there on first scan or recently added.
Edit: Just realized that those two 83.x channels might have been "missed" on original scan cuz there was no 83.1 (scrambled)! If that's the case, other people may have digital channels they haven't found yet either. Might be a good idea to correlate your TV channels (if digital) with what your 3575 picks up and see what's "hiding" cuz the 3575 didn't find a XX.1 channel???
This post by Budget_HT on his QAM experience might help understand this cableco QAM channel thing?
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Don't think so. You should be OK based on my experience with my basic analog cable from TW. Here are the DIGITAL channels my LCD TV gets compared to the same channels in my 3575:
Net.........TV CH.....3575 CH
CW21.......60-703...60.1
Fox6HD....60-706...60.2
My68........60-711...60.3
DiscHD......75-10....75.1
ESPNHD....76-1......76.1
TNT.TV.....78-300...78.1
TBS.com...83-205...83.3
ESPN2HD..83-754...83.4
Somehow the 3575 finds those channels "in the clear" (not scrambled) and assigns them its own single-digit number.
One thing of note: when I did my original scan, the two 83.x channels weren't picked up. I only knew they were there when I got my new LCD TV. Used Manual Channel Preset to enter 83, but it said Scrambled, went to 83.2, same thing, went to 83.3 and 83.4, and there they were!
Not sure if those two channels were there on first scan or recently added.
Edit: Just realized that those two 83.x channels might have been "missed" on original scan cuz there was no 83.1 (scrambled)! If that's the case, other people may have digital channels they haven't found yet either. Might be a good idea to correlate your TV channels (if digital) with what your 3575 picks up and see what's "hiding" cuz the 3575 didn't find a XX.1 channel???
This post by Budget_HT on his QAM experience might help understand this cableco QAM channel thing?
I've tried...but Philips,like the others uses a proprietary disk format...and to make the replacement we need a service disk and a service remote control...
I've done it with my other dvr,a pioneer using a 750Gb HDD,but I've waited a long long time to get what I needed to do the operation...
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmod /forum/post/12406708
Does anyone know if you can "mod" the DVR by putting in a larger hard drive? 160G is ok but I have a whole season of Mad Man from AMC and it took up quite a chunk of space on my old Toshiba RD-XS52 from SD cable source. If I get this new DVR w/ digital tuner and start recording /seasonpass/ of BSG or some other hip HD shows like Houe, the wee 160G won't hold.
Has anyone has performed this type of surgery? I know if will void the warranty... Forgive me if this is not the right forum for the question.
Thanks.
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I've tried...but Philips,like the others uses a proprietary disk format...and to make the replacement we need a service disk and a service remote control...
I've done it with my other dvr,a pioneer using a 750Gb HDD,but I've waited a long long time to get what I needed to do the operation...
This might be irrelevent, but it does relate the the 3575.
Wabjxo, I should have followed your advice and left the 3575 in my cart the other day. I had a heck of a time locating one today. I tried 3 Walmarts, 1 CC, and 1 BB, all to no avail. The kid at BB made a interesting statement though. He said he has had several inquiries from people interested in a HDD DVR, only having to turn them away. I told him, if he could, to suggest Walmart and the 3575. He said he would. I find it funny that BB sells many Philips units, but not this one. Seems odd to me, that a person has to go to a discount store like Walmart, to score a top of the line unit like this...Odd
I also asked the sales person at Walmart if they were going to get more 3575's and she looked it up, and said yes. She said they were good sellers. Oh, and for once I did get the 2 yr. extended warranty for $17.88, the unit was $298 B4 tax.
After I've played with the unit for a while, I'll give you direct comparisons of PQ on this unit, to my Panasonic DMR-EZ17(all be it JMO). By the way my unit is a Aug 07 date, the only other new one they had was a July 07 date, and the display was a April 07.
Wabjxo, I should have followed your advice and left the 3575 in my cart the other day. I had a heck of a time locating one today. I tried 3 Walmarts, 1 CC, and 1 BB, all to no avail. The kid at BB made a interesting statement though. He said he has had several inquiries from people interested in a HDD DVR, only having to turn them away. I told him, if he could, to suggest Walmart and the 3575. He said he would. I find it funny that BB sells many Philips units, but not this one. Seems odd to me, that a person has to go to a discount store like Walmart, to score a top of the line unit like this...Odd
I also asked the sales person at Walmart if they were going to get more 3575's and she looked it up, and said yes. She said they were good sellers. Oh, and for once I did get the 2 yr. extended warranty for $17.88, the unit was $298 B4 tax.
After I've played with the unit for a while, I'll give you direct comparisons of PQ on this unit, to my Panasonic DMR-EZ17(all be it JMO). By the way my unit is a Aug 07 date, the only other new one they had was a July 07 date, and the display was a April 07.
Joined
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14,210 Posts
Does your digital TV have more digital channels than your 3575?
If so, your 3575 may have more digital channels than what you scanned in.
I found two "hidden" digital channels that didn't get scanned in on my unit. They were part of a channel group that had mixed scrambled/unscrambled minor channels.
It's possible* that, if the 3575 finds an XX.1 channel that's Scrambled, it passes over any other minor channels that might be in that group that are NOT scrambled.
This post has more info on finding my two extra digital channels... look for "Finding Hidden Digital Channels...."
*NOTE: I had this posted earlier but deleted it to try a rescan for verification. However, once digital channels are scanned in, they're in and I didn't want to do a reset to lose all tuning before my rescan verification.
I thought I needed verification cuz I can't PROVE the 3575 skips a group of channels if the XX.1 channel is scrambled, but none of my 3575s have the two "hidden" channels mentioned above, and I've scanned at different times and one recently. I'm only slightly worried that my cable provider ADDED those two channels between then and now, so my auto-scans missed them???
Still worth a look for "missing" 3575 major channels that your TV receives.
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If so, your 3575 may have more digital channels than what you scanned in.
I found two "hidden" digital channels that didn't get scanned in on my unit. They were part of a channel group that had mixed scrambled/unscrambled minor channels.
It's possible* that, if the 3575 finds an XX.1 channel that's Scrambled, it passes over any other minor channels that might be in that group that are NOT scrambled.
This post has more info on finding my two extra digital channels... look for "Finding Hidden Digital Channels...."
*NOTE: I had this posted earlier but deleted it to try a rescan for verification. However, once digital channels are scanned in, they're in and I didn't want to do a reset to lose all tuning before my rescan verification.
I thought I needed verification cuz I can't PROVE the 3575 skips a group of channels if the XX.1 channel is scrambled, but none of my 3575s have the two "hidden" channels mentioned above, and I've scanned at different times and one recently. I'm only slightly worried that my cable provider ADDED those two channels between then and now, so my auto-scans missed them???
Still worth a look for "missing" 3575 major channels that your TV receives.
Joined
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14,210 Posts
REAL-TIME DUB (RTD) INFO
The procedure for dubbing is in a separate help file here.
Important: A RTD from HDD to DVD sets the DVDR default rec mode to whatever you select for the RTD. Always check your default rec mode after a RTD!
Jump To:
Notes
Note on Helpful Advice from Users of Other DVDRs
Making Multigenerational Copies in Same Rec Mode - Digital Channels
Mode-Conversion Dubbing from 1-hr-HQ to ALL Other Rec Modes - Digital Channels
Mode-Conversion Dubbing from 2-hr-SP Tape to 2.5-hr-SPP DVD
Real-Time Dub Smooths Edit Points
Notes
Note on Helpful Advice from Users of Other DVDRs
Be aware that, when people with OTHER DVDRs offer advice on recording and dubbing modes, etc., they might not have digital tuners in their units, so their source PQ is not as good as your digital channels.
Also, they certainly don't have Philips new MPEG-2 encoder-decoder (CODEC), one of hundreds they've developed, which has advanced features like those mentioned in a recent magazine article about the "big four" codec producers [Zoran, ESS, LSI and Philips] and who's doing what with their DVD chips, part of which reads:
"Philips is adding to its new MPEG-2 CODEC optimized hardware blocks for running new picture improvement algorithms such as adaptive picture sharpness detection and deblocking* artifacts removal."
So, do your own tests and become familiar with YOUR unit's capabilities, and you might be surprised at how "old" advice is, well, just OLD!
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Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.
Making Multigenerational Copies in Same Rec Mode - Digital Channels
Note 1: This discussion assumes recording from digital channels... recordings from analog channels will be hard-pressed to retain PQ, much less improve it!
Note 2: These RTD multi-generation tests were all done with the INTERNAL DRIVES of a 3575. You WILL get different and lower-quality results if you introduce an outside source, like a DVD recorded in a diff. recorder, a separate DVD player, Composite or S-Video cables, etc.
High-speed dub (HSD) is ALWAYS best to use IF POSSIBLE. However, there are some occasions that you might want to or need to use real-time dub (RTD), or mode-conversion dub, like when programs run long and you don't want to Delete Scenes, or you do all your recordings at 1-hr-HQ cuz you value VIEWING quality over subsequent ability to put on a disc, etc... "special" circumstances, for the most part. For more info on RTD and HSD, click here.
Prompted by one of the Panasonic Super-Fans who bought a 3575 to bash and posted that an HQ multigenerational dub "looked like crap," and me thinking that sounded suspiciously untrue (as usual), I decided to test the very-worst-case scenario of making sequential dubs, from one generation to the next with the internal drives, ALL in RT. That's definitely "worst-case" since, in the real world, the dubs from HDD-to-DVD would normally be made at HS for a lossless, mirror-image copy.
I started by recording 30 min. or so of an action movie at 1-hr-HQ rec mode from my excellent TNT digital channel (Gen 1), which I receive via an analog cable feed. It has lots of detail shots, fast movement, closeups of faces, C4 explosive blocks w/small writing, a detonating device with a small LED and text, helicopter flying with inside shot of heads-up display, etc. IOW, LOTS of stuff that would normally show PQ degradation.
I copied the Gen1 HQ title from HDD to a DVD+R (Gen2), back to HDD (Gen3), back to DVD (Gen4), back to HDD (Gen5), and back to DVD (Gen6)... all RT dubs from the last Gen using 1-hr-HQ rec mode.
Theoretically, there was supposed to be some degradation, but I just couldn't see it. I've got 3 copies on DVD... representing SIX REAL-TIME GENERATIONS... and ALL look virtually the same!
I wonder how many gens I could stretch that to if my original feed were OTA or Sat HD to start with, or even true digital cable, rather than my basic analog cable feed!?
If you need to do this multi-generational dubbing for a special purpose, you should, of course, use HS dub from HDD to DVD, then the Gen6 RT dub in my worst-case test would only be Gen3.
Even if you start with a Finalized DVD in HQ mode from a good source, where the Gen1 on the DVD would have to be DIRECT DUBBED in RT to the HDD (Gen2), this test proved that a worst-case Gen5 from a Finalized HQ DVD can be virtually indistinguishable from the original, depending on the quality of the source.
Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.
Mode-Conversion Dubbing from 1-hr-HQ to ALL Other Rec Modes - Digital Channels
Note 1: This discussion assumes recording from digital channels... recordings from analog channels will be hard-pressed to retain PQ, much less improve it!
Note 2: These RTD mode-conversion tests were all done with the INTERNAL DRIVES of a 3575. You WILL get different and lower-quality results if you introduce an outside source, like a DVD recorded in a diff. recorder, a separate DVD player, Composite or S-Video cables, etc.
Another question might be how good is this DVDR in maintaining PQ with a RTD that converts rec mode from a digital channel recording to one of the next-lower quality modes... again, in prob. the worst-case for source (other than an analog channel): my basic analog cable feed?
This is useful for someone who is primarily a "time-shifter" (record shows, watch later, then delete), but wants the highest quality recordings to VIEW. The true time-shifter seldom makes DVD copies so the 1-hr-HQ per DVD limit will only be an occasional "time-problem" that might require a real-time conversion dub to another rec mode... and even then, just for movies or special events that are over 1-hr in length.
I just completed several tests of RTD to check PQ loss from a 5-minute segment I recorded to my HDD in 1-hr-HQ. This DVDR allows you to pause a manual recording and change channels, so I did that to make sure I included sports, dramas, commercials, etc. in my test recording.
My results are summarized below with separate PQ assessments for a Drama (Las Vegas) vs Sports (BB & FB), PLUS the commercials, which were of different quality (RedLobster looked delicious at any rec mode
![]()
).
I was able to get a good assessment of the original PQ cuz I watched each RTD, looking for key areas to compare, like the effect of fast movement on edges, facial sharpness, etc. "Excellent" means I could not see a diff. from the original. "Good" means there was some visible softness but really hard to tell w/o a direct comparison to the original (i.e., I wouldn't have noticed anything "wrong" w/the pic if I hadn't seen the original.... many times!). "Fair" and "Poor" mean there was increasingly noticeable softening, mosquito noise, fuzzy edges, etc.
Mode-Conversion Dubs from 1-hr-HQ to Other Rec Modes with Internal Drives
From 1-hr-HQ rec. of digital HD channels in analog cable feed
*See this help file for info on recording fast-action field sports where fast-moving players are teeny-weeny objects on large field.
Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.
Mode-Conversion Dubbing from 2-hr-SP Tape to 2.5-hr-SPP DVD
Note 1: This discussion assumes recording from digital channels... recordings from analog channels will be hard-pressed to retain PQ, much less improve it!
Note 2: These RTD mode-conversion tests were all done with the INTERNAL DRIVES of a 3575. You WILL get different and lower-quality results if you introduce an outside source, like a DVD recorded in a diff. recorder, a separate DVD player, Composite or S-Video cables, etc.
I copied a 1994 commercial VHS movie from the original tape to my 3575 HDD in 2-hr-SP rec mode using COMPOSITE Y/W/R RCA CABLES, which is considered by many to be lowest quality connection. So, my reported results here should be considered as WORST-CASE since S-Video connection should produce an even better end product.
The SP HDD title turned out to be 2:22:05, so too long to fit on a DVD with HSD (2:10:00 max.), so I dubbed the movie to a DVD-R using AUTO, which selected the SPP mode (nearest, best mode for total length).
I asked my wife, who has critical nose and eyes, to see if she could tell any difference between the SP original and the SPP copy on disc. She said there was a "very minute" difference in PQ.
Based on my experience with mode-conversion dubbing of digital HD programs using the internal drives, I believe if I had used an S-Video connection instead of composite for the original copy-to-HDD, she wouldn't have been able to detect that "minute" difference cuz the original copy on HDD would have been a better source for the SPP conversion.
Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.
Real-Time Dub Smooths Edit Points
One other benefit to RTD is that it re-encodes the entire program, which recreates the Group of Pictures (GOP) that are disrupted when we delete scenes. This makes those edit points smooth again since the MPEG2 stream has been recreated in new GOPs.
Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.
REAL-TIME DUB (RTD) INFO
The procedure for dubbing is in a separate help file here.
Important: A RTD from HDD to DVD sets the DVDR default rec mode to whatever you select for the RTD. Always check your default rec mode after a RTD!
Jump To:
Notes
Note on Helpful Advice from Users of Other DVDRs
Making Multigenerational Copies in Same Rec Mode - Digital Channels
Mode-Conversion Dubbing from 1-hr-HQ to ALL Other Rec Modes - Digital Channels
Mode-Conversion Dubbing from 2-hr-SP Tape to 2.5-hr-SPP DVD
Real-Time Dub Smooths Edit Points
Notes
- The reason we can fit only 4424 MB, or 4.4 GB, of info on a "4.7 GB" disc is simply the difference in figuring capacity: disc mfgrs use the decimal numbering system (K=1000) but our DVDRs and computers use the binary system (K=1024).
- High-speed dub (HSD) retains ALL chapter marks in the DVD copy (auto- and custom-set). real-time dub (RTD) strips those and sets marks only per your auto-chapter setting in the Recording menu.
- When dubbing from DVD to HDD, you have to set the HDD rec mode since the dub doesn't occur automatically at the same rec mode as the DVD. Only a high-speed dub from HDD to DVD does that.
- A dub is controlled by the machine so, once you start the dub, you can walk away... you don't have to babysit a dub.
- Caution: Don't start a dub if you have a timer rec program due to start within the time period of your dub. You'll just end up ruining your disc!
Note on Helpful Advice from Users of Other DVDRs
Be aware that, when people with OTHER DVDRs offer advice on recording and dubbing modes, etc., they might not have digital tuners in their units, so their source PQ is not as good as your digital channels.
Also, they certainly don't have Philips new MPEG-2 encoder-decoder (CODEC), one of hundreds they've developed, which has advanced features like those mentioned in a recent magazine article about the "big four" codec producers [Zoran, ESS, LSI and Philips] and who's doing what with their DVD chips, part of which reads:
"Philips is adding to its new MPEG-2 CODEC optimized hardware blocks for running new picture improvement algorithms such as adaptive picture sharpness detection and deblocking* artifacts removal."
So, do your own tests and become familiar with YOUR unit's capabilities, and you might be surprised at how "old" advice is, well, just OLD!
Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.
Making Multigenerational Copies in Same Rec Mode - Digital Channels
Note 1: This discussion assumes recording from digital channels... recordings from analog channels will be hard-pressed to retain PQ, much less improve it!
Note 2: These RTD multi-generation tests were all done with the INTERNAL DRIVES of a 3575. You WILL get different and lower-quality results if you introduce an outside source, like a DVD recorded in a diff. recorder, a separate DVD player, Composite or S-Video cables, etc.
High-speed dub (HSD) is ALWAYS best to use IF POSSIBLE. However, there are some occasions that you might want to or need to use real-time dub (RTD), or mode-conversion dub, like when programs run long and you don't want to Delete Scenes, or you do all your recordings at 1-hr-HQ cuz you value VIEWING quality over subsequent ability to put on a disc, etc... "special" circumstances, for the most part. For more info on RTD and HSD, click here.
Prompted by one of the Panasonic Super-Fans who bought a 3575 to bash and posted that an HQ multigenerational dub "looked like crap," and me thinking that sounded suspiciously untrue (as usual), I decided to test the very-worst-case scenario of making sequential dubs, from one generation to the next with the internal drives, ALL in RT. That's definitely "worst-case" since, in the real world, the dubs from HDD-to-DVD would normally be made at HS for a lossless, mirror-image copy.
I started by recording 30 min. or so of an action movie at 1-hr-HQ rec mode from my excellent TNT digital channel (Gen 1), which I receive via an analog cable feed. It has lots of detail shots, fast movement, closeups of faces, C4 explosive blocks w/small writing, a detonating device with a small LED and text, helicopter flying with inside shot of heads-up display, etc. IOW, LOTS of stuff that would normally show PQ degradation.
I copied the Gen1 HQ title from HDD to a DVD+R (Gen2), back to HDD (Gen3), back to DVD (Gen4), back to HDD (Gen5), and back to DVD (Gen6)... all RT dubs from the last Gen using 1-hr-HQ rec mode.
Theoretically, there was supposed to be some degradation, but I just couldn't see it. I've got 3 copies on DVD... representing SIX REAL-TIME GENERATIONS... and ALL look virtually the same!
I wonder how many gens I could stretch that to if my original feed were OTA or Sat HD to start with, or even true digital cable, rather than my basic analog cable feed!?
If you need to do this multi-generational dubbing for a special purpose, you should, of course, use HS dub from HDD to DVD, then the Gen6 RT dub in my worst-case test would only be Gen3.
Even if you start with a Finalized DVD in HQ mode from a good source, where the Gen1 on the DVD would have to be DIRECT DUBBED in RT to the HDD (Gen2), this test proved that a worst-case Gen5 from a Finalized HQ DVD can be virtually indistinguishable from the original, depending on the quality of the source.
Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.
Mode-Conversion Dubbing from 1-hr-HQ to ALL Other Rec Modes - Digital Channels
Note 1: This discussion assumes recording from digital channels... recordings from analog channels will be hard-pressed to retain PQ, much less improve it!
Note 2: These RTD mode-conversion tests were all done with the INTERNAL DRIVES of a 3575. You WILL get different and lower-quality results if you introduce an outside source, like a DVD recorded in a diff. recorder, a separate DVD player, Composite or S-Video cables, etc.
Another question might be how good is this DVDR in maintaining PQ with a RTD that converts rec mode from a digital channel recording to one of the next-lower quality modes... again, in prob. the worst-case for source (other than an analog channel): my basic analog cable feed?
This is useful for someone who is primarily a "time-shifter" (record shows, watch later, then delete), but wants the highest quality recordings to VIEW. The true time-shifter seldom makes DVD copies so the 1-hr-HQ per DVD limit will only be an occasional "time-problem" that might require a real-time conversion dub to another rec mode... and even then, just for movies or special events that are over 1-hr in length.
I just completed several tests of RTD to check PQ loss from a 5-minute segment I recorded to my HDD in 1-hr-HQ. This DVDR allows you to pause a manual recording and change channels, so I did that to make sure I included sports, dramas, commercials, etc. in my test recording.
My results are summarized below with separate PQ assessments for a Drama (Las Vegas) vs Sports (BB & FB), PLUS the commercials, which were of different quality (RedLobster looked delicious at any rec mode
I was able to get a good assessment of the original PQ cuz I watched each RTD, looking for key areas to compare, like the effect of fast movement on edges, facial sharpness, etc. "Excellent" means I could not see a diff. from the original. "Good" means there was some visible softness but really hard to tell w/o a direct comparison to the original (i.e., I wouldn't have noticed anything "wrong" w/the pic if I hadn't seen the original.... many times!). "Fair" and "Poor" mean there was increasingly noticeable softening, mosquito noise, fuzzy edges, etc.
Mode-Conversion Dubs from 1-hr-HQ to Other Rec Modes with Internal Drives
From 1-hr-HQ rec. of digital HD channels in analog cable feed
| RTD Mode | PQ Drama | PQ Sports* |
|---|---|---|
| 2-hr-SP | Excellent | Good |
| 2.5-hr-SPP | Good | Good |
| 3-hr-LP | Good | Good>Fair |
| 4-hr-EP | Good | Fair |
| 6-hr-SLP | Good | Poor |
Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.
Mode-Conversion Dubbing from 2-hr-SP Tape to 2.5-hr-SPP DVD
Note 1: This discussion assumes recording from digital channels... recordings from analog channels will be hard-pressed to retain PQ, much less improve it!
Note 2: These RTD mode-conversion tests were all done with the INTERNAL DRIVES of a 3575. You WILL get different and lower-quality results if you introduce an outside source, like a DVD recorded in a diff. recorder, a separate DVD player, Composite or S-Video cables, etc.
I copied a 1994 commercial VHS movie from the original tape to my 3575 HDD in 2-hr-SP rec mode using COMPOSITE Y/W/R RCA CABLES, which is considered by many to be lowest quality connection. So, my reported results here should be considered as WORST-CASE since S-Video connection should produce an even better end product.
The SP HDD title turned out to be 2:22:05, so too long to fit on a DVD with HSD (2:10:00 max.), so I dubbed the movie to a DVD-R using AUTO, which selected the SPP mode (nearest, best mode for total length).
I asked my wife, who has critical nose and eyes, to see if she could tell any difference between the SP original and the SPP copy on disc. She said there was a "very minute" difference in PQ.
Based on my experience with mode-conversion dubbing of digital HD programs using the internal drives, I believe if I had used an S-Video connection instead of composite for the original copy-to-HDD, she wouldn't have been able to detect that "minute" difference cuz the original copy on HDD would have been a better source for the SPP conversion.
Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.
Real-Time Dub Smooths Edit Points
One other benefit to RTD is that it re-encodes the entire program, which recreates the Group of Pictures (GOP) that are disrupted when we delete scenes. This makes those edit points smooth again since the MPEG2 stream has been recreated in new GOPs.
Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.
Just thought I'd post my findings with my 3575. After spending ~1hr setting up the contrast/brightness/backlight etc. to match the HDMI input on my Panasonic tc-32le60, I was quite happy with the PQ. I even comented to my wife that PQ looked better than my Sony progressive scan component-out DVD player, playing several of my "HQ test dvd's". I like to use the THX optomizer setup section of my Monsters Inc. dvd. I also use a Shania Twain music DVD, many of the music videos have great color, fast motion, and even a B&W video, for setting white and black levels. It takes a properly setup system to display B&W in true B&W, no tinting/colors.
Back to my findings, as noted at first the playback on the 3575 looked great, color and contrast were second to none(that I've tried). But it went down hill from there. I'm not sure what happend, I might have been trying the HDMI button to change various resolution outputs, not sure, but now the picutre is WAY to contrasty.
I could not even see the words THX on the optomizer screen, let alone the drop shadow behind it. Before whatever happened it was just fine. Anyway now I have to have the brightness on my Panny tv, set all the way up, to see anything. I also cannot, no way see the drop shadow behind THX(hope you know what I mean by THX).
I've tried all the settings on the 3575 to help correct things. I do have one question about the 3575 HDMI setup though. What is the difference between RGB and YCbCr HDMI output? Why would I want to use one, over the other. The manual does not explain why one would choose one over the other, with the exception of "if conneted device is not compatable with YCbCr, the output will automatically be RGB". Does this mean that YCbCr is better than RGB, if your monitor is capabable it? I do notice something does change when I try each, but I wouldnt say one was better than another.
Also in the RGB mode I have a choice of "normal or Enhanced" If I choose RGB, then "normal" the video is slightly less contrasty, but still WAY too much.
I have also tired all the output resolutions. 480p, 720p and 1080i. Note I do not get the option for 1080p, so if I read the manual correct, does this mean that my tv is not capable of displaying that resolution? I guess there's no reason to buy a 1080p HD dvd player then, at least with my monitor... Of cource I have set up the 3575 to output progressive.
Does anyone have any suggestions? I suppose I could swap the cables with my component Sony dvd player to see if it were a cable/hdmi out problem. It's just that previously I did have a Panny es-25 upconverting dvdr w/hdmi out, in place of this 3575, and I never had this contrast issue.
I suppose I could give another 3575 a try, I did read many older posts about this machine, some people really bashing the PQ, but then some people saying how good it was. Maby they just have a few lemons out there, that have bad outputs. I know first hand Panny's have there fair share of gremlins, but PQ has never been one, at least in my case.
Back to my findings, as noted at first the playback on the 3575 looked great, color and contrast were second to none(that I've tried). But it went down hill from there. I'm not sure what happend, I might have been trying the HDMI button to change various resolution outputs, not sure, but now the picutre is WAY to contrasty.
I could not even see the words THX on the optomizer screen, let alone the drop shadow behind it. Before whatever happened it was just fine. Anyway now I have to have the brightness on my Panny tv, set all the way up, to see anything. I also cannot, no way see the drop shadow behind THX(hope you know what I mean by THX).
I've tried all the settings on the 3575 to help correct things. I do have one question about the 3575 HDMI setup though. What is the difference between RGB and YCbCr HDMI output? Why would I want to use one, over the other. The manual does not explain why one would choose one over the other, with the exception of "if conneted device is not compatable with YCbCr, the output will automatically be RGB". Does this mean that YCbCr is better than RGB, if your monitor is capabable it? I do notice something does change when I try each, but I wouldnt say one was better than another.
Also in the RGB mode I have a choice of "normal or Enhanced" If I choose RGB, then "normal" the video is slightly less contrasty, but still WAY too much.
I have also tired all the output resolutions. 480p, 720p and 1080i. Note I do not get the option for 1080p, so if I read the manual correct, does this mean that my tv is not capable of displaying that resolution? I guess there's no reason to buy a 1080p HD dvd player then, at least with my monitor... Of cource I have set up the 3575 to output progressive.
Does anyone have any suggestions? I suppose I could swap the cables with my component Sony dvd player to see if it were a cable/hdmi out problem. It's just that previously I did have a Panny es-25 upconverting dvdr w/hdmi out, in place of this 3575, and I never had this contrast issue.
I suppose I could give another 3575 a try, I did read many older posts about this machine, some people really bashing the PQ, but then some people saying how good it was. Maby they just have a few lemons out there, that have bad outputs. I know first hand Panny's have there fair share of gremlins, but PQ has never been one, at least in my case.
Joined
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14,210 Posts
"Bashing the PQ"... haven't read that before in this forum.
YCbCr is digital Component video, which is what's on a commercial DVDs. If your TV is YCbCr compatible, that would be the best setting for HDMI. I'd choose RGB if using Component cables since that's the analog Component.
Normal and enhanced RGB change contrast, as you noted. Choose the one you like best.
An HDMI res not selectable is supposed to show your TV does not accept that res. You might have a 720p TV?
Several people have found HDMI best when set to output at 480p (me too).
The "sudden" change from great to poor PQ sounds like something "snapped" in the unit, if there was no other input change from you. Can't think of any settings that might cause a drastic change as you describe. Might have to take back or swap units?
YCbCr is digital Component video, which is what's on a commercial DVDs. If your TV is YCbCr compatible, that would be the best setting for HDMI. I'd choose RGB if using Component cables since that's the analog Component.
Normal and enhanced RGB change contrast, as you noted. Choose the one you like best.
An HDMI res not selectable is supposed to show your TV does not accept that res. You might have a 720p TV?
Several people have found HDMI best when set to output at 480p (me too).
The "sudden" change from great to poor PQ sounds like something "snapped" in the unit, if there was no other input change from you. Can't think of any settings that might cause a drastic change as you describe. Might have to take back or swap units?
I think by "bashing the PQ" I was refering to someone who was not happy watching HD TV thru the 3575, of cource he was told it would be dumbed down to 480i, and to not expect HD out of this unit. I should have clarified.
And yes, my display is 720p, but I can select 1080i output from the 3575 and it works fine, also I watch 1080i OTA HD TV, all the time...
I think I will try and track down another one. Walmart does have a great return/exchange policy.
One last thing, is there a way to reset this unit back to "out of box state". Maby I could give that a whirl. I tried the reset option in one of the setup screens, but I'm not sure if it was back to "out of box" state. Could you confurm? thanks again.
And yes, my display is 720p, but I can select 1080i output from the 3575 and it works fine, also I watch 1080i OTA HD TV, all the time...
I think I will try and track down another one. Walmart does have a great return/exchange policy.
One last thing, is there a way to reset this unit back to "out of box state". Maby I could give that a whirl. I tried the reset option in one of the setup screens, but I'm not sure if it was back to "out of box" state. Could you confurm? thanks again.
Joined
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14,210 Posts
How To Kill the 2160A Finalize/Format/Erase Bug Without Pesticides!
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10/12/09 - It turns out you can kill the mysterious "FW Bug" in the 2160A without pesticides... it has a very simple workaround:
1. Keep your timer programs intact.
2. Set your 2160A's input to L3 (DV) with Source button on remote.
3. Finalize, Format and Erase away!
Important notes:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
November 28, 2009
Dear Mr. Funai:
I believe I've found the EXACT cause of the 2160A FW bug that doesn't allow Disc Edit ops if any timer rec programs are set, and the reason setting the machine on L3 works as an operational fix:
Per the manual, the 2160A is SUPPOSED to stop autostart recording (AR) when a user selects any option in the Disc Edit menu. My original 2160 does, but I'm 99.999999% sure the 2160A doesn't.
The reason L3 works is because it DOES stop AR, which is reqd for a Disc Edit op cuz these DVDRs can't simultaneously record/auto-record to the HDD and perform an "editing" op on a DVD, like Format, Erase or Finalize.
I checked my original 2160 to see if it stopped AR when I selected a Disc Edit menu option. I inserted an unfinalized disc, opened the Disc Edit menu, selected Edit Disc Name, exited that menu after a few sec, then checked AR by pressing the PREV button, and the time counters started at a new zero (0) point with only a few sec of total AR time in the buffer each time I did this. That means the AR buffer had been dumped and AR had been stopped while in that Disc Edit menu option.
So, Mr. Funai, if you would check the FW for the 2160A, I believe you'd find a missing command to STOP AR WHEN A DISC EDIT OPTION WAS SELECTED AND IN USE, LIKE FORMAT, ERASE, FINALIZE AND EDIT DISC NAME.
Seems like a simple fix that maybe you'd find the time to incorporate and offer for download soon!
![]()
Yours Truly,
All 2160A Users
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Some have expressed interest in how I came up with the L3 workaround, so here's a brief explanation.
After lots of unsuccessful tests with different settings suggested by many people, this problem seemed to be unsolvable by us. The only workaround had been to delete all timer-rec programs before doing any Disc Edit op (Format/Erase/Finalize)... a royal pain in the arse!
I kept checking the Funai FW download page to no avail... a FW update really didn't appear to be forthcoming.
On 10/12/09, knowing how frustrated 2160A users must be, I decided to re-address some nagging questions I had, which led to a provable theory of how to kill the bug without a FW update. The thought process went something like this.
Normally, there's a connection between timer rec programs and the Disc Edit ops like Format, Erase and Finalize. A RW Format or Erase can't be started unless there's at least 15-min. before the next timer program, and a -R/+R/-RW Finalize must have at least 1-hour.
The E19 FW Bug in the 2160A was different in that it would allow users to start a Disc Edit op, but it would fail at the 90% point... about the time for a "write-to-disc" op. This suggested a "read-write" component instead of, or in addition to, a program-timer component... maybe some sort of "interference" going on between the two?
E19 is stated as "Safety Stop during editing." The "during editing" was obviously the Disc Edit read-write op it was involved in at the time (Format/Erase/Finalize), and "Safety Stop" meant the FW saw a problem during that read-write op that reqd it to abort the process.
That "problem" must be more than the next timer rec start time since the process would start OK, and the only read-write op going on at the 90% point is Autostart Recording (AR).
What if AR was THE problem? And if so, was there a way to stop, or suspend, it to see if the "interference" would go away and allow Disc Edit ops with timer programs set? Only chance to do that for "bug-killing" purposes seemed to be opening one of the menus that dump the buffer or setting the Source to a line input. The menus were out cuz that would preclude opening the Disc Edit menu. That left only a line input.
I had tested L1 and L2 before on my original 2160, so I just confirmed again that they restarted AR after they dumped the buffer. However, my Eureka! moment came when I realized I had never tested L3. When I did, it dumped the buffer as expected, but it ALSO suspended AR for as long as the machine was on L3... unlike L1 and L2, it won't start ANY recording without a DV source connected. While in this "permanent" waiting mode, it also allowed me to open the Disc Edit menu and perform disc ops in my original 2160!
Since I don't have a 2160A, I couldn't test the full theory on the so-called FW bug, but armed with my newfound operating info and unproven theory, I asked for a volunteer who had a 2160A to do a Finalize test while on L3. Artwire responded, did the test and proved my theory: L3 worked as the FW bug killer! He also tested RW Format and Erase and found both also worked while on L3.
How To Kill the 2160A Finalize/Format/Erase Bug Without Pesticides!
10/12/09 - It turns out you can kill the mysterious "FW Bug" in the 2160A without pesticides... it has a very simple workaround:
1. Keep your timer programs intact.
2. Set your 2160A's input to L3 (DV) with Source button on remote.
3. Finalize, Format and Erase away!
Important notes:
- To Format a new DVD±RW disc for 1st use, you MUST have the unit on L3 BEFORE inserting the disc cuz the Formatting starts immediately w/o any user action. A +RW formats quickly but a -RW takes a minute or so. You'll see chasing lines in the front-panel display. RW discs only need one initial formatting for continual use. DVD±R don't get formatted, so no special actions reqd before 1st use.
- To Erase an RW or Finalize any recorded discs, you can insert the disc first, set Source to L3 (DV), open the Disc Edit menu and select option (after the disc loads, of course, ~20 sec). However, it might be better to develop a habit of setting the 2160A on L3 first, before inserting a disc for any Disc Edit op?
- While on L3, short "flashes" on screen mean nothing... don't worry about them.
- While on L3, don't press any buttons other than the Setup button to get to the Disc Edit option you need. Don't get curious or frisky with other buttons, esp. SKIP + # buttons... I've already done that!
![]()
- Remember, Finalizing still can't be done if any timer rec program is due to start within 1-hour of Finalize start, and an RW initial Format or post-rec Erase still needs at least 15 minutes.
- Setting the 2160A on L3 dumps the accumulated buffer and stops background recording.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
November 28, 2009
Dear Mr. Funai:
I believe I've found the EXACT cause of the 2160A FW bug that doesn't allow Disc Edit ops if any timer rec programs are set, and the reason setting the machine on L3 works as an operational fix:
Per the manual, the 2160A is SUPPOSED to stop autostart recording (AR) when a user selects any option in the Disc Edit menu. My original 2160 does, but I'm 99.999999% sure the 2160A doesn't.
The reason L3 works is because it DOES stop AR, which is reqd for a Disc Edit op cuz these DVDRs can't simultaneously record/auto-record to the HDD and perform an "editing" op on a DVD, like Format, Erase or Finalize.
I checked my original 2160 to see if it stopped AR when I selected a Disc Edit menu option. I inserted an unfinalized disc, opened the Disc Edit menu, selected Edit Disc Name, exited that menu after a few sec, then checked AR by pressing the PREV button, and the time counters started at a new zero (0) point with only a few sec of total AR time in the buffer each time I did this. That means the AR buffer had been dumped and AR had been stopped while in that Disc Edit menu option.
So, Mr. Funai, if you would check the FW for the 2160A, I believe you'd find a missing command to STOP AR WHEN A DISC EDIT OPTION WAS SELECTED AND IN USE, LIKE FORMAT, ERASE, FINALIZE AND EDIT DISC NAME.
Seems like a simple fix that maybe you'd find the time to incorporate and offer for download soon!
Yours Truly,
All 2160A Users
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Some have expressed interest in how I came up with the L3 workaround, so here's a brief explanation.
After lots of unsuccessful tests with different settings suggested by many people, this problem seemed to be unsolvable by us. The only workaround had been to delete all timer-rec programs before doing any Disc Edit op (Format/Erase/Finalize)... a royal pain in the arse!
I kept checking the Funai FW download page to no avail... a FW update really didn't appear to be forthcoming.
On 10/12/09, knowing how frustrated 2160A users must be, I decided to re-address some nagging questions I had, which led to a provable theory of how to kill the bug without a FW update. The thought process went something like this.
Normally, there's a connection between timer rec programs and the Disc Edit ops like Format, Erase and Finalize. A RW Format or Erase can't be started unless there's at least 15-min. before the next timer program, and a -R/+R/-RW Finalize must have at least 1-hour.
The E19 FW Bug in the 2160A was different in that it would allow users to start a Disc Edit op, but it would fail at the 90% point... about the time for a "write-to-disc" op. This suggested a "read-write" component instead of, or in addition to, a program-timer component... maybe some sort of "interference" going on between the two?
E19 is stated as "Safety Stop during editing." The "during editing" was obviously the Disc Edit read-write op it was involved in at the time (Format/Erase/Finalize), and "Safety Stop" meant the FW saw a problem during that read-write op that reqd it to abort the process.
That "problem" must be more than the next timer rec start time since the process would start OK, and the only read-write op going on at the 90% point is Autostart Recording (AR).
What if AR was THE problem? And if so, was there a way to stop, or suspend, it to see if the "interference" would go away and allow Disc Edit ops with timer programs set? Only chance to do that for "bug-killing" purposes seemed to be opening one of the menus that dump the buffer or setting the Source to a line input. The menus were out cuz that would preclude opening the Disc Edit menu. That left only a line input.
I had tested L1 and L2 before on my original 2160, so I just confirmed again that they restarted AR after they dumped the buffer. However, my Eureka! moment came when I realized I had never tested L3. When I did, it dumped the buffer as expected, but it ALSO suspended AR for as long as the machine was on L3... unlike L1 and L2, it won't start ANY recording without a DV source connected. While in this "permanent" waiting mode, it also allowed me to open the Disc Edit menu and perform disc ops in my original 2160!
Since I don't have a 2160A, I couldn't test the full theory on the so-called FW bug, but armed with my newfound operating info and unproven theory, I asked for a volunteer who had a 2160A to do a Finalize test while on L3. Artwire responded, did the test and proved my theory: L3 worked as the FW bug killer! He also tested RW Format and Erase and found both also worked while on L3.
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Joined
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27 Posts
Hey all! I am a happy PIO640 owner looking for second DVR. I've been very happy with my PIO, but this Philips caught my eye.
I seem to remember an older Philips or maybe a Panasonic DVR (I've looked at so many different ones over the past year I can't keep them strainght any more), that you could NOT 'chase play' your timer recording that was in progress.
Before I order this one, I just wanted to make sure that you could actually watch, pause, rewind a timer recording in progress.
I also want to make sure that you can watch another recorded show or play a DVD while you are timer recording.
Thanks!
RF
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo /forum/post/12298346
*Advantages of a Hard Disk Drive (HDD) in a DVDR*
4. Play and Record Simultaneously. What's that you say... do both at the same time? Yup! Timer recording one of your weekly shows, but want to Play something else from the HDD or DVD? No problem... it's multi-tasking! You really will have a hard time explaining this new "multi-tasking" machine to certain people... who will remain un-named by me... you know who they are!![]()
![]()
Hey all! I am a happy PIO640 owner looking for second DVR. I've been very happy with my PIO, but this Philips caught my eye.
I seem to remember an older Philips or maybe a Panasonic DVR (I've looked at so many different ones over the past year I can't keep them strainght any more), that you could NOT 'chase play' your timer recording that was in progress.
Before I order this one, I just wanted to make sure that you could actually watch, pause, rewind a timer recording in progress.
I also want to make sure that you can watch another recorded show or play a DVD while you are timer recording.
Thanks!
RF
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