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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof /forum/post/19133884


234?


Lorddonk spoke of SATELLITE, not cable.


There's a big difference.


In the U.S., satellite companies don't share their decription codes with ANYONE.


CABLE companies, however, have been told by LAW they have to cooperate with cable cards, which allow a user-owned device to become like a cable box.


This is why many have asked that Funai make a recorder that takes cable cards, so we can tune cable channels with our recorder, and be able to change channels and tune cable channels with the recorder's timer and tuner. (Our recorders currently can't change channels on cable boxes.)


The requirement to cooperate with cable cards (and provide cable cards) forces cable companies to do this with ALL makes of TVs and recorders. TiVo does NOT have a special relationship or agreement with the cable companies.


The cable card arrangement is required by LAW.


If Funai made a recorder that worked with cable cards, the cable companies would have to allow us to use cards with our recorder. They'd have no choice.

Dear gastrof,


I appreciate that I could study US regulation.


It is completely viseversa against Japan system.

Current Japanese DVD recorder and TV contains BS/CS tuner and we can contract payment on their OSD.


It means we do not need to have satelite STB in house.

However, if your RF in comes from cable company (not antenna), you need cable company's STB to decrypt.


Sorry my less knowledge.

I already asked to develop DVD recorder for cable card few month ago. But it was refused because of my mentioned reason.


gastrof, could you please indicate where I can find such regulation. Is there any US official document search?

When I understand it well, I will talk this suggestion to our top level management because it is important but difficult mission.

(Of course, I am not sure whether it will be accepted or not...)


234
 

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There was a "wish list" request on the feedback from a buyer. The buyer would like recording space to be reused if the disk fills up. I've never had this problem, but it sounds like a flag could be set on a recording that indicates that the title can be erased if the space is needed for a new title. Of course this should be an option. The unit would make a better security camera recorder for this person. My old Sony has this option. It only has two options: "keep until I delete" and "keep until space needed". No option for "fail to record" if drive fills up. But I guess "keep until I delete" would do that, but it's not the default. Funai doesn't seem big on warning messages.
 

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I'm a newbie and I can't start a new thread yet, but here is my situation...

I have been receiving basic cable (no STB) and recently upgraded to an HDTV with a digital tuner (32" Vizio). Low and behold I have a few HD Channels (ABC, Fox, etc). Did a little digging and am now starting to get a fuzzy idea of terms like "QAM in the clear" and such. I rarely watch live TV and have been using a VCR up until now but would like to move out of the 20th century... I am CHEAP- I pay $15/mo for cable, $20/mo for DSL and don't want to pay the same amount for a DVR ($15/mo from Insight). Nor do I have an extra PC laying around to build a HTPC. I am really interested in the Magnavox MDR513H ($230 from Walmart) but have a couple of questions (which I'm sure have been asked before).

-I have read that the 2080 has a QAM tuner (here and in a couple of reviews). Yet I couldn't find that in the specs, and Magnavox said it didn't (they simply say "digital tuner", but then said "no QAM" on the phone. Who is right, and is "digital tuner" somewhat synonymous with QAM at this point?

More basically, can I simply plug my coax cable from the wall in to the DVDR and get a good (albeit slightly less than HD) picture?

-I have heard things about the "write-once" problems of DVD-Rs and issues of copy protection causing problems. Is this a problem for these QAM channels or is this mainly an issue for "premium content" like upper tier cable channels and PPV?

-I am assuming the picture quality is downgraded to DVD quality before going to the HDD of the MDR513H (as opposed to only downgrading prior to burning a DVD.

If what I'm reading is true, it sounds like this may be the closest I can get to a TiVO like experience on the cheap. (time-delay start, DVD quality picture etc). I just won't have the nice onscreen nav controls of a DVR...

Just to double check- There is no DVR device that is available without subscription that will do what I am wanting here is there? (pull in these QAM HD channels off of the coax cable and store to it's own HDD). I know I can build a HTPC, but that's not what I'm asking. I don't get it if there isn't... I really don't care about burning discs. I just want TiVo type functionality without paying a subscription...

BTW, something I'm thinking about doing is simply rigging an antenna on the roof and pulling in OTA digital signals (instead of paying ~$15/mo). Would that change anything (OTA instead of QAM)?
 

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Discussion Starter #10,825

Quote:
Originally Posted by single_digit /forum/post/19136394


I'm a newbie and I can't start a new thread yet, but here is my situation...

THIS is the place to ask question or make comments. This is the main thread where everyone can see questions and answers and learn from them, and this is a Sticky thread, so it never moves from this position. Other Normal threads move down and out of site as time goes on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by single_digit /forum/post/19136394


I have been receiving basic cable (no STB) and recently upgraded to an HDTV with a digital tuner (32" Vizio). Low and behold I have a few HD Channels (ABC, Fox, etc). Did a little digging and am now starting to get a fuzzy idea of terms like "QAM in the clear" and such. I rarely watch live TV and have been using a VCR up until now but would like to move out of the 20th century... I am CHEAP- I pay $15/mo for cable, $20/mo for DSL and don't want to pay the same amount for a DVR ($15/mo from Insight). Nor do I have an extra PC laying around to build a HTPC. I am really interested in the Magnavox MDR513H ($230 from Walmart) but have a couple of questions (which I'm sure have been asked before).

-I have read that the 2080 has a QAM tuner (here and in a couple of reviews). Yet I couldn't find that in the specs, and Magnavox said it didn't (they simply say "digital tuner", but then said "no QAM" on the phone. Who is right, and is "digital tuner" somewhat synonymous with QAM at this point?

All the Philips and Mag DVDRs have digital/QAM tuners. See Item 5 here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by single_digit /forum/post/19136394


More basically, can I simply plug my coax cable from the wall in to the DVDR and get a good (albeit slightly less than HD) picture?

Yes, that's how I run my system of 2160, 3575 and Pio 640, all daisy-chained on the incoming analog cable TV coax, no box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by single_digit /forum/post/19136394


-I have heard things about the "write-once" problems of DVD-Rs and issues of copy protection causing problems. Is this a problem for these QAM channels or is this mainly an issue for "premium content" like upper tier cable channels and PPV?

Mainly some Premium channels, but previously people were even able to record from them. Cablecos are "tightening" up so it's impossible to say if YOU will have any problems. Anything your digital-tunered HDTV can tune w/o a cable box the 513 can also tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by single_digit /forum/post/19136394


-I am assuming the picture quality is downgraded to DVD quality before going to the HDD of the MDR513H (as opposed to only downgrading prior to burning a DVD.

Yes, anything going thru the tuner or line inputs will get downgraded to 480i per DVD specs cuz those are recordable signal paths.

Quote:
Originally Posted by single_digit /forum/post/19136394


If what I'm reading is true, it sounds like this may be the closest I can get to a TiVO like experience on the cheap. (time-delay start, DVD quality picture etc). I just won't have the nice onscreen nav controls of a DVR...
Check out this table for some info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by single_digit /forum/post/19136394


Just to double check- There is no DVR device that is available without subscription that will do what I am wanting here is there? (pull in these QAM HD channels off of the coax cable and store to it's own HDD). I know I can build a HTPC, but that's not what I'm asking. I don't get it if there isn't... I really don't care about burning discs. I just want TiVo type functionality without paying a subscription...

The DTVPal DVR is non-subscription, and Moxi has no ongoing subscription fee like Tivo. See the link I gave in previous Quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by single_digit /forum/post/19136394


BTW, something I'm thinking about doing is simply rigging an antenna on the roof and pulling in OTA digital signals (instead of paying ~$15/mo). Would that change anything (OTA instead of QAM)?

Only thing that should change is a MUCH better picture and all the major network channels in 720p or 1080i HD! Those are the very best Sources for your signal, making the 480i downgrade look PDG!
Anything going thru the 513's coax passthru will remain 720p or 1080i or whatever the signal was to start with (no downgrade for just watching TV on your HDTV while recording on the 513 in 480i).


The DTVPal DVR mentioned above and listed in that linked chart is for OTA only and records in HD.
 

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234..Here (finally) are my suggestions on the Titling of recordings AND the change in the Title Index.


This is primarily how the RCA HDD/DVD recorder works to title programs. I've made some slight changes:

1. I added the Upper Case' and Lower Case' capability which the RCA didn't have. And

2. I added the left () arrows to select the title character' position to be addressed. On the RCA, if you wanted to change one character in the title (let's say the second character in a 20 character title) you had to delete ALL the characters to the right of it (18), and then recreate them. This seemed inefficient.

Without making this into an instructions manual' (I will elaborate if asked), here are the basics:

1. You highlight the letter/number/symbol on the Grid' desired and press the Ok key on the remote

2. The blinking square' in the title block will change to that character, and the next square (to the right) in the title block will blink.


The Title block' allows for 20 characters or spaces.

Quick Information: When Titling' is selected by the user:

1. The screen displays a Grid' with all the characters, the Title block' appears above the Grid', and a smaller grid (box) with Done'; Clear'; A'; a' appears to the right of the Grid'.

2. The title should allow for at least 20 characters.

3. The blinking title square' automatically starts at the first left square, if the title is blank OR the next blank square if there is a title there already, when first selecting Titling'.

4. After having selected and Ok'd a title character, the title square next to it on the right automatically blinks, indicating that it will be the next title character to change.

5. After a title character' has been changed (Ok'd), the > character on the grid' will automatically be highlighted. Pressing the Ok key on the remote moves the highlighted square in the Title block' over one square to the right (the
6. To finish, you highlight Done' and press Ok.


Regarding the Title Index' page(s):

I think that you should be able to read the title of each program clearly without clicking/highlighting' it first, and you should have the choice of selecting to display each program video thumbnail, rather than displaying 6 video thumbnails at the same time. The RCA displays 7 titles that can be clearly read, but only has one (large) video thumbnail, which is the title that is highlighted. When another title is highlighted, the video thumbnail displays that one.

Information about the title' is shown below the Video thumbnail, date it was recorded, length/duration, and quality at which it was recorded at. If there are more than 8 titles, you can scroll down to see the other titles, but only 8 titles can be read at the same time.
 

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wajo....had trouble using the 'manage attachments'. Tried to just copy and paste document into the post. Accepted the text but not the graphic (sketch). What did I do wrong and how do I bring in the sketch?


thanks!
 

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I'm one of the folks that has it both ways with thirteen recorders set up for daily use, one for ATSC, one for clear QAM, eight enslaved to Comcast HD converter boxes, two enslaved to a Comcast SD converter box and one enslaved to a Comcast DTA. Six of those recorders connected to a single HD converter box are used exclusively to tune and record from Turner Classic Movies.


Those six TCM recorders were used to record the 24 hours of Thelma Todd programming on Monday/Tuesday. For those fans of Thelma Todd and/or early talkie comedy this was THE EVENT NOT TO BE MISSED! The Thelma Todd programming consisted of ten movies from 1931-1936 (the last of which was released after Miss Todd's mysterious death at 29) and twenty shorts, comprised of eighteen two reelers (twenty minute) and two three reelers (thirty minute) of the 1930-1935 period. Four Panasonic direct to DVD recorders utilized in a tandem recording strategy made one set of seven DVDs recorded at the Panasonic LP recording mode (four hours per DVD). One each Philips 3575 and Magnavox 2160 recorders were utilized in a tandem recording strategy where the entire Thelma Todd programming was recorded at SP mostly in recording blocks of around 2.5 hours. Once edited, divided and reorganized the high-speed dubbing sessions produced the second set of ten (SP) DVDs. The high-speed dubbing strategy involved reorganizing the programming so that one movie and two or three shorts of the same or a near vintage were paired together on each DVD. Certain related interstitials from the day's programming were retained and used to fill out the 2:10:00 per DVD capacity. These included three one reel shorts, the first from Edgar Bergen, the second from Patsy Kelly and the third from Robert Benchley.
 

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Maybe you can use this post to see what might be different. Here's my intro text, and I've Attached a file from my computer using the Manage Attachments button. Notice "Valid File Extensions" (mine is a jpg)... might be something there?


Oops, I'll bet it's a filesize issue... note max file size for each type of image.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo /forum/post/19136615


Maybe you can use this post to see what might be different. Here's my intro text, and I've Attached a file from my computer using the Manage Attachments button. Notice "Valid File Extensions" (mine is a jpg)... might be something there?


Oops, I'll bet it's a filesize issue... note max file size for each type of image.

234 Hopefully attached are the two sketches that go with my previous post re: Titling of recordings and Title index suggestions for the Funai
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo /forum/post/19136615


Maybe you can use this post to see what might be different. Here's my intro text, and I've Attached a file from my computer using the Manage Attachments button. Notice "Valid File Extensions" (mine is a jpg)... might be something there?


Oops, I'll bet it's a filesize issue... note max file size for each type of image.

Thanks...may have been a file issue...more likely my problem as I didn't click on the 'submit reply' on the manage attachments page.



wajo....I'm concerned that the post where I explained the procedure for 'titling' of a recording and the suggested 'title index' may have gotten lost in the translation due to the lack of the sketches. Let me know if I need to re-post again with the sketches AND text as part of the attachment, and review if possible my post and see if it needs to be revised.

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #10,833

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollandboy /forum/post/19136726


Thanks...may have been a file issue...more likely my problem as I didn't click on the 'submit reply' on the manage attachments page.



wajo....I'm concerned that the post where I explained the procedure for 'titling' of a recording and the suggested 'title index' may have gotten lost in the translation due to the lack of the sketches. Let me know if I need to re-post again with the sketches AND text as part of the attachment, and review if possible my post and see if it needs to be revised.

Thanks.

Just click the Edit button and I think you can add the Attacnment(s) in that menu same as on an original post.

If those attachments are from your computer, you can use the first Browse boxes to paste them directly in the post? Might be better than URLs or "click to download" images?

I see now they're Word files? You can, however, Browse to the images in your computer and paste thise directly using the top ATtachment Browse boxes. Handle text separately?


ONCE WE GET THIS RIGHT
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo /forum/post/19134962


Not necessarily true. People have reported here that they have only an STB and not a DVR and they can still select programs to "Record" as if they did have a DVR as described in these Tips for STB Users.

People with STBs w/o DVRs: Check your manual and menus for a "RECORD" function like those described in the Tips linked above and see if you, like many others, can use that to set up "phantom" recordings for unattended copying to the DVDR via a coordinated timer rec program. The STB does the scheduling of viewing or recording so it's possible that virtually *EVERY* STB has a view/record scheduling feature.

Wajo, My VIP211K doesn't have a DVR. In the menu setup there is an option to enable VCR. With that enabled it is so simple to set up timed recordings. I just go into the Timer section and input the channel(s) and time(s) that i want to record and that's all there is to it.The Sat. receiver box turns on for the scheduled time(s),tunes the channel for that time period specified then turns itself off. If there are multiple channels and times,it turns itself on and off for each time and channel entered in to it. There are actually several ways to enter a timed session but it's to difficult for me to explain in a typewritten post.
G.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollandboy /forum/post/19134340


Or you can switch to a cable provider and purchase a DVR (TiVo) that will record the programs for you, then afterward transfer them to the Mag.

You also need a Cable Card that requires a monthly cableco fee.

Quote:
Although I'm also not happy to pay any provider for a DVR, it's not as horrible as you might think. If they charge $7/mnth that equates to $84/yr. No idea what TiVo or Moxi costs these days, but the last time I looked they were around $250. That's 3 years of the provider's DVR,

Unfortunately, it is not $7/mth DVR anywhere that I am aware of, certainly not around where I live. It's hard to find out the real costs because the provider websites tend to obscure the costs as much as possible.


Ignoring short term promotions, the lowest I could find earlier this year was $12/month. Direct TV is $7/month for DVR service PLUS a monthly fee per outlet which is $5. Comcast charges a flat $15/month per outlet, so if you have more than one DVR the fees rise faster. These are SD prices, HD costs more. Dual tuner 160GB Premiere TiVos can be bought from TiVo for $200, older models are sometimes available for less.

Quote:
and then it's unlikely that the TiVo or Moxi would be able to record multiple channels at the same time.

C'mon..., TiVo started the DVR industry and has had two tuners since way back when. Providers introduced their own DVRs to compete with TiVo, although not immediately. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiVo_di...ideo_recorders for the history e.g. the Series 1 was introduced March 31, 1999 and that the "Series 1 DirecTV....have two tuners, DirecTiVos are able to record two programs at once."


Making comparisons is difficult, you really do need to do a lot of research to cut through the obfuscation.
 

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Discussion Starter #10,836

Quote:
Originally Posted by greaser /forum/post/19136803


Wajo, My VIP211K doesn't have a DVR. In the menu setup there is an option to enable VCR. With that enabled it is so simple to set up timed recordings. I just go into the Timer section and input the channel(s) and time(s) that i want to record and that's all there is to it.The Sat. receiver box turns on for the scheduled time(s),tunes the channel for that time period specified then turns itself off. If there are multiple channels and times,it turns itself on and off for each time and channel entered in to it. There are actually several ways to enter a timed session but it's to difficult for me to explain in a typewritten post.
G.

Greaser, I'll change my help file link to your latest post (10838 above) for info. If you can or want to, Edit THAT post to add any other helpful info for people who might click on that link in the help file, i.e., trying to keep everything in one post for ease of ref.?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 234 /forum/post/19136205


Dear gastrof,


I appreciate that I could study US regulation.


It is completely viseversa against Japan system.

Current Japanese DVD recorder and TV contains BS/CS tuner and we can contract payment on their OSD.


It means we do not need to have satelite STB in house.

However, if your RF in comes from cable company (not antenna), you need cable company's STB to decrypt.


Sorry my less knowledge.

I already asked to develop DVD recorder for cable card few month ago. But it was refused because of my mentioned reason.


gastrof, could you please indicate where I can find such regulation. Is there any US official document search?

When I understand it well, I will talk this suggestion to our top level management because it is important but difficult mission.

(Of course, I am not sure whether it will be accepted or not...)


234

Re-post


Please let me have any evidence that cable provider MUST release decrypt code to unit manufacturer.
 

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True or false: an NTSC cable analog channel can not supply a data stream in the VBI that contains the PSIP tables. My research says no, that it's a ATSC/digital signal property. Any comments?
 

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Discussion Starter #10,839

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra /forum/post/19137115


True or false: an NTSC cable analog channel can not supply a data stream in the VBI that contains the PSIP tables. My research says no, that it's a ATSC/digital signal property. Any comments?

Joe, correct. From Wiki :


"The Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP) is the protocol used in the ATSC digital television system for carrying metadata about each channel in the broadcast MPEG transport stream of a TV station and for publishing information about television programs so that viewers can select what to watch by title and description."
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 234 /forum/post/19136999


Re-post


Please let me have any evidence that cable provider MUST release decrypt code to unit manufacturer.

I don't think they have to give you anything. I think he was talking about CableCard.


A CableCARD is a device that plugs into customer owned equipment. The CableCARD decodes scrambled cable channels. The CableCARD is owned by the cable company.


I think I found the document that contains this regulation.

Download the Telecommunications Act of 1996 from the FCC (PDF) here. Go to page 85 and read:

SEC. 304. COMPETITIVE AVAILABILITY OF NAVIGATION DEVICES.


I hope this is what you are looking for.
 
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