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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hardy /forum/post/14127517


Hello all,

I've been busy editing with the 3575 and have developed a wishlist. Perhaps we could get one going so Philips can see what we need?

Frankly, I don't think they care.

I suspect they don't want to spend a penny on support of these units that is not absolutely necessary.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hardy /forum/post/14127517


Hello all,

I've been busy editing with the 3575 and have developed a wishlist. Perhaps we could get one going so Philips can see what we need?

No offense, Mike, but I think you're wishing for something that almost certainly isn't going to happen in a consumer recorder. I'm actually surprised that Philips is selling something like this in the USA. I believe there's not much of a market for these, right now. Most people I know are on cable or satellite with local channels and have DVRs available to them. Not to mention the price of these things ($248 is the lowest I could find at Sam's Club). They're happy to rent the DVRs at $5-$6/month and additional amounts for the local channels, in some cases. If they were to add the features you suggest, it would most likely drive it out of the consumer market and put it into the prosumer market with a much higher price tag.


I would suggest looking around at some professional HDD/DVD recorders or use a computer for the editing features you mentioned if they are really important to you. I know a lot of us would like more advanced features on many of the entertainment devices we own, but unfortunately the line has to be drawn somewhere. Of course, it's been my experience that big companies really aren't in tune with what consumers want, even though these forums exist. It makes no sense to me unless they feel that these forums don't represent the typical user, but rather a small portion of all of their users that are certainly to be more demanding. If that's the case, they're probably justified.


I consider myself an advanced user of most of my electronic equipment and generally buy high-end stuff and I'm not cheap or frugile by any means. However, I'd have to think long and hard about spending more than $300/ea on something that's essentially replacing a couple of VCRs. After all, there's no new technology in these things that hasn't been around for 5 years or more. To me, the price point of a product when it's released for consumers usually reflects how much R&D time went into it and whether or not the components are readily available. My 2 cents.


And always rememember... It's your dream. Make it as big as you want.
 

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Thanks kenavs and sfearl for the replies and concern for my feelings, it's testimony to the meaningless append I made that this is the first concern!! Few folks have commented about editing. Either it's so simple and I'm making it hard or no one else does it!

Yep, I know it's asking a lot, and I really don't expect it. Think of my request this way, wajo, being the diligent soul he is, MIGHT add a WISHLIST to his perpetual document on the -75/76. If so, all readers would hear that they are not alone in their wants and perhaps learn something meaningful from the dialog. THAT is the purpose of the append. And, then too, he might not.

Either way, maybe I will learn about editing, my current hot button.

I have a version of Cyberlink Power Director and can't get to it for the PC users in my household. They will let me waste my time on the DVR, tho' there have been some rows there too. I need to spend time learning the program so I can do those things.

But, if I just had ... the world would be perfect. Per sfearl, I'm dreaming big!!


thanks all for your patience.


BTW, why do we put TV programs, movies to DVD anyway? I'm dealing with Star Trek addiction here and need intervention!! Tks, M.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,125
Hey, all, heads up!


I just had to do a channel rescan... testing and updating SKIP-4-5-6... and now get SIX more (new) digital channels. Now I get 14 digital QAM channels in the clear on my basic analog cable subscription... and one is MAX HD!


EDIT: I forgot the most important thing:


Now, my auto channel presets find all digital channels, even if the prime channel, XX.1, is scrambled, and none of the Scrambled channels stay in memory so I can tune directly thru all tunable digital channels with the channel up/down button.


Before, my scans would SKIP any channel group that had XX.1 Scrambled, and I would have to Manually enter a channel group my TV got, including the XX.1 and other Scrambled channels in that group.


Now, auto-scans tune only 83.3 and 83.4, and skip 83.1 and 83.2, which are Scrambled.


Beekeeper's unit acted this way and we couldn't explain why my unit acted different in an auto-scan.


What this means, to me anyway, is that there are channel oddities caused by the cableco's SIGNAL rather than by the 3575 tuner since nothing has changed in my 3575 but now a channel scan acts totally different!


I think I can hear thousands of new auto-scans going right now!?



(Seriously, it does pay to re-scan regularly till Feb 2009, anyway!)
 

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Thanks to kenavs and wajo for the quick responses. I may go out shopping tomorrow and see what I can find for this unit. I don't remember seeing one at Best Buy, but that's the first place I'll look since I have some coupons to knock some of the price off the top. I doubt the local Circuit City would have one, since the last time I was in there, they had almost no DVD recorders much less ones with hard drives. The other stops are Wal Mart and a local high end A/V store. I don't have a membership at Sam's club, so that's out, plus I think they've closed most of the ones around here. At worst, I guess Walmart.com will have to do.


I need a unit like this one since I don't have a DVR with my satellite account, and even if I did, it wouldn't be able to do OTA, and the local OTA digital channels I get are much higher quality than the ones supplied by DirecTV, since they use pretty heavy compression. It'll also be nice to have nearly unlimited recording time (for what I do) and not have to worry about getting someone to stop by when I'm on vacation to swap tapes!


LGD
 

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Discussion Starter #1,128
Some thoughts on running several 3575/76's together w/o distinctive remote codes.


I don't think there's a whole lot of harm that can come from operating multiple units with the same remote. Here are some points to consider, and these assume you have NO directionality at all, i.e., ALL units in a system are "activated" by pressing a remote button cuz your aim is really bad!



There is only ONE button on the remote that can universally "interfere" with multiple units in a system: the STOP button can stop one or more recordings in progress. (Wish they had a Stop Recording button dedicated to that purpose like the Pio 640.)

During a timer recording, ONLY the STOP button has any adverse effect. Altho the PLAY button could begin Chase Playing all recordings in progress... with your bad aim and all... even that won't cause any adverse effect... you can just let them play harmlessly. In fact, starting Chase Play on ALL recording units would be an advantage since, then, pressing STOP a single time will NOT stop any of the recordings you'd have to press STOP twice in a row to stop Chase Play AND the recording(s). FF, SKIP, etc. could operate all chase-playing units, but so what?

During a manual recording started with the REC button, both the STOP and PAUSE LIVE TV buttons can have an adverse effect. STOP as mentioned above, and PAUSE LIVE TV will PAUSE any manual recordings in progress (but not timer recs) pressing again will resume those manual recordings.


So, there are really only TWO buttons that you'd need to be careful with when operating multiple units at the same time: STOP and PAUSE LIVE TV.


Only a couple of other menu buttons can even be used. A SETUP menu can be acted upon in a non-recording unit but any adverse options won't be active/selectable if a unit is recording.


Not sure if or why you'd PLAY multiple units at one time, but the PLAY button will act on all units, even Timer recordings but only to start Chase Play, which itself is harmless and, as stated above, CAN be an advantage.


The disc tray button will function, but opening the disc tray doesn't hurt anything if you're playing only one DVD in one machine others not playing a DVD would just open and close with no harm.


Maybe Rletson, who runs two units about 3 feet apart, can add to this with his experience... assuming anyone even cares anymore?
 

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It happened again! I divided a freshly-recorded title on the HDD, and the end of the first part was corrupted. I didn't do any other editing. When I tried to high-speed dub the first part to DVD, it got to the end and then threw up E22: Cannot record to this disc. I tried again on real-time dub, and when it hit the end of the title it kept on recording a blank screen endlessly - I had to press stop on the front panel to get it to stop. Finally I tried playing back the title from the HDD, to find (as I suspected by now) that the end of the title was corrupted and playback froze at about 10 seconds before the point that I recall dividing it.


This is the third time I've seen this happen now. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the 3575 has a general firmware bug with dividing titles on the HDD, regardless of whether you do any other editing. You can expect the end of the first title to be corrupted about 10% of the time.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,130 (Edited)


Record Music/Audio from Various Sources & Make Audio DVD


Audio Bit Rates

You can record music/audio and create audio DVDs from various sources, like CD players, other DVD players, stereo systems, music channels, radio, etc.

In 2006, I did some tests with my Pioneer 640 that determined, *theoretically*, you could get LOTS of audio on a DVD if you left the video cable disconnected (didn't actually try to fill a DVD disc with the Pio like I did with the Philips 3575 described below).

To get some basic info on how our PhilMag DVDRs record audio with video cable disconnected, I played tracks of a music CD from my CD/DVD player connected to my Philips DVDR3575H/37 via L/R audio cables and the video cable OFF and ON. No discernible audio diff. at any rec mode.

Audio Bit Rates (Mbps) with Video Cable OFF
Using DVD+VR DVDR Like Philips and Magnavox


. . . . . . . . . Mbps w/Vid
Rec Mode . . .Cable OFF
1-hr-HQ. . . . . 0.87
2-hr-SP . . . . . 0.87
2½-hr-SPP . . .0.84
3-hr-LP. . . . . .0.84
4-hr-EP. . . . . .0.84
6-hr-SLP . . . . 0.84

Max. Audio in 6-hr-SLP Rec Mode with This DVDR
~5:39:55 w/High-Speed Dub (HSD) HDD>DVD.
~6:49:33 Direct-to-DVD.

Recording to HDD and Dubbing to DVD

Max audio @ 6-hr-SLP and using HSD from HDD > DVD = ~5:39:55

I recorded 12 hours (11:59:59) of audio from a VHS movie in SLP rec mode to the HDD of my 3575 with the video cable disconnected. Tried to dub that to a DVD-R using HSD (HIGH) and it could not be done ("disc full" message). Divided that 12-hour title into pieces to find the max. length of SLP audio that could use HSD.

Here's the list of titles in my Dub menu that would HSD:
4:59:55 (For HSD only, no SLP title can be over 4:59:59)
0:10:00
0:10:00
0:10:00
0:10:00
5:39:55 Total for HSD. Tried to add a 00:01:26 audio title & it wouldn't allow HIGH.

That 5:39:55 of SLP is almost exactly the NORMAL SLP time you can get on a DVD using HSD, so the OS is assuming a normal video/audio stream even with an audio-only title and with only the audio cable connected.

This oddity creates additional oddities when burning a DVD. It creates a FULL disc even tho it doesn't use up the entire dye surface... it acts like a normal video title but shows less-than-normal imprint on the dye side of the disc. My HSD dub resulted in a slightly smaller imprint than that shown in the 3rd pic below, right-hand disc. This is only a "curiosity" since it doesn't affect playback.

HSD took about 21 min., which is odd, again, since the file size of 2138MB for HIGH should take less time, but the SLP RTD file size of 4177MB should take MORE time? Again, only a curiosity.

All the audio titles played back normally, with all Play/Pause/Skip features working, but with black screen. Audio quality was very good.

Recording Direct-to-DVD (DTD)

Max audio @ 6-hr-SLP and using DTD = ~6:49:33

When recording direct-to-DVD, these PhilMag DVDRs do some "strange" things that make DTD unappealing, such as:
  1. They never fill a disc! Instead, they stop rec automatically at a certain point w/o any user interaction.
  2. Unfull discs return Disc Full error if you try to record more after they stop recording on their own.
  3. They stop at same point as long as audio line is connected, whether there's live audio being fed or not.
  4. They write DVD-R much differently than -RW.

All of these effects can be seen in the discs below, which were created using DTD with a 3575 on Source E1, video line disconnected (black screen). I also recorded with and without live audio from a VHS movie to see if any difference.

DTD, Two DVD-R, Both HQ Rec Mode, Stopped by Themselves @ 2:06:34, Video Line Disconnected, (L) Audio Line Connected But No Live Audio Feed vs. (R) Live Audio Feed from VHS Movie ... No Difference.
NOTE ODD, SMALL IMPRINT IN DYE FOR A 2:06:34 HQ AUDIO DTD


DTD, Two DVD-R, (L) HQ Rec Mode Stopped by Itself @ 2:06:34, vs. (R) SLP Rec Mode Stopped by Itself @ 6:49:33, Video Line Disconnected, Audio Line Connected But No Live Audio Feed ... Wouldn't Make Any Diff. Anyway.
NOTE ODD, SMALL IMPRINT IN DYE OF LH PIC FOR A 2:06:34 HQ AUDIO DTD BUT APPROX. "NORMAL" IMPRINT FOR 6:49:33 SLP.


DTD, DVD-R (L) and DVD-RW (R), HQ Rec Mode Stopped by Itself @ 2:06:34 on Both Discs, Video Line Disconnected, Audio Line Connected But No Live Audio Feed.
NOTE VASTLY DIFF. IMPRINT IN DYE BETWEEN -R (LEFT) AND -RW (RIGHT) WITH SAME CONTENT.



Converting DVD Audio to CD Using Computer

You can convert the audio files with a computer and SW for making a CD, which will play in more devices than a DVD. TBoneit recommends Freemake Video Converter (free), as described here.

Recording Digital Music Channels

Some DVDRs can't record the digital music channels most cable subscribers can tune in their basic cable sub. The 3575/2576/2080/2160/513/515 can record those channels so, if you like the music on a particular channel and would like to play the same music "often," you can record it and keep it as a music title on the HDD, or even HSD a copy to DVD.

Recording YouTube Audio

Clevor has posted a "clevor" procedure for recording YouTube audio directly to the HDD without having to create any intermediate files, converting, etc.

 

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The very first VHS hifi machines were touted as being able to record full quality audio as well, some even had full record audio gain controls like a tape deck. Sony slv 676 has them, I still own one.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dartman /forum/post/14138258


The very first VHS hifi machines were touted as being able to record full quality audio as well, some even had full record audio gain controls like a tape deck. Sony slv 676 has them, I still own one.


Yeah, but did any VHS Hifi sound close to the original source? Any A/B I ever did was painful to listen to. VHS HiFi was never a viable substitute for even a good cassette recorder like a Nakamichi.
 

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Actually it is about cd quality sound, at least my Sony is. I'm sure the later machines had so many limiters and things in them it got worse. I believe it's specs were over 90 db SN ratio and over 100 or db or close for dynamic range.

I never really bothered to do it but I know it really was nice sounding, way better then the video quality was and this thing was a $500 deck when I bought it. Only better one Sony made at that point was their SL-VR5 SVHS machine that I just couldn't justify buying for almost 1K.

There were a lot of weird ways to record audio that may have been great that never really caught on, this is just one.

I spose stuffing a full sized video cassette transport in your car might have had a lot to do with it...
 

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On the Tivo forum, someone said that it was possible to circumvent the digital copy-protection enforced by some broadcasters (like HBO) by using certain brands of blank DVD disks. I heard that some types of DVD-RW or DVD+R disks allow you to circumvent the CPRM. I've tried TDK DVD+Rs but they still enforce the copy protection. Does anyone know if there are certain brands (perhaps the low-grade ones like RiData) that don't enforce CRPM because they don't brand a code on the blank disks?


These should theoretically work on the Philips.
 

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DVD-RW discs recorded in VR format that are CPRM compliant will allow "copy-once" recordings, but they require deletion of the original content.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo /forum/post/14138235


...

I recorded to the HDD then dubbed to DVD a....


. . . . . . . . Mbps with . . . . Approx Mbps
Mode . . . . Vid Cable Off . . .Video+Audio

6-hr-SLP . . . . 0.84 . . . . . . . 1.5

4-hr-EP. . . . . .0.84 . . . . . . . 2.0

3-hr-LP. . . . . .0.84 . . . . . . . 3.0

2.5-hr-SPP . . .0.84 . . . . . . . 4.0

2-hr-SP. . . . . 0.87 . . . . . . . 5.5

1-hr-HQ. . . . . 0.87 . . . . . . . 9.5


The "Vid Cable Off" bit rate works out to about 11 hours of audio on a SL DVD.

Thanks, wajo! Great stuff.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dartman /forum/post/14139837


Actually it is about cd quality sound, at least my Sony is. I'm sure the later machines had so many limiters and things in them it got worse. I believe it's specs were over 90 db SN ratio and over 100 or db or close for dynamic range.

...

I did this many, many years ago with a JVC Super-VHS deck that had all the controls and the results were superb. Equal or better than CD quality (IMHO) -and my ears were a lot sharper back then.



You could get 8 hrs of audio on a tape - and just like wajo's tests with DVD's, the quality was pretty much constant irrespective of recording speed. The only downside was the linear nature, so you had to ffwd or rewind to get to sections of the tape. The JVC let you mark locations, but was still slow compared to direct access on a CD. But it was the best quality available at the time and a lot of audiophiles swore by it.


It was especially well suited for making live recordings of music and such and much cheaper than the pro decks available at the time.
 

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I know the answer to my question is here somewhere, I just can't find it. I'm probably getting confused on the different acronyms or terminology. At the risk of asking the stupid, already answered question, I'm going to ask it anyway. What does HDTV tuner "passthru" mean?


Quote from one of wajo's many informative posts:


"The 3575/76 has an active (amplified) RF/coax passthru that is, internally, separate from the tuner. The coax in/out loop delivers and slightly amplifies whatever signal is fed in, including hi-def TV (HDTV) in its native form, directly to your TV and other downstream components, even when the 3575/76 is off.


On a separate internal path, the incoming RF/coax signal is slightly amplified and fed to the 3575/76's std def. (SDTV) tuner. This allows you to watch your normal HD on your TV AND record on the 3575/76 at the same time.


However, the 3575/76... and ALL SDTV DVD recorders in North America... downrezzes the HDTV signal path that goes thru its tuner so it can record in 480i as required by the SDTV DVD-Video standard. For watching 3575/76 channels or recordings on your TV, the downrezzed signal can be converted to 480p thru Component and HDMI, or converted and uprezzed to 720p, 1080i or 1080p thru HDMI, if desired."


I know and the 3575/76 cannot record HDTV, it will only record downrezzed 480p. Question is, if I'm not recording, and I'm simply watching my TV (or projector in my case), will the HDTV tuner in the 3575/76 pass the HD signal to my projector? Or, will the tuner downrezz it to 480p, even though I'm just using the tuner part, and not the recorder part?


Sorry to ask this, I just can't seem to get the warm and fuzzy that this is what "pass thru" means.


Thanks for you help.



Trey
 

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Discussion Starter #1,139

Quote:
Originally Posted by treytexag /forum/post/14144950


I know and the 3575/76 cannot record HDTV, it will only record downrezzed 480p. Question is, if I'm not recording, and I'm simply watching my TV (or projector in my case), will the HDTV tuner in the 3575/76 pass the HD signal to my projector? Or, will the tuner downrezz it to 480p, even though I'm just using the tuner part, and not the recorder part?


Sorry to ask this, I just can't seem to get the warm and fuzzy that this is what "pass thru" means.

All North American DVDRs record in 480i, which is the DVD standard. They also have only SDTV tuners, so anything going thru the tuner will be SDTV, which you CAN upconvert to 720p, 1080i or 1080p, but it still gets downrezzed to 480i thru the tuner.


The coax into and out of the 3575/76 is "just passin thru"... it doesn't go thru the tuner, so if that signal is HDTV, it comes out the coax as HDTV and on to your TV.


If you watch HDTV from your source thru the "coax passthru" of the 3575/76, you'll see the HDTV pic on your TV cuz it's not going thru the 3575/76 tuner. That's basically why it's called "passthru."


If you watch TV thru the 3575/76 tuner via a line connection to your TV(Composite, S-Vid, etc.), the pic will be downrezzed to 480i, etc.
 

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OK, I think I've got it. So for a projector, like a Mitsubishi HC1500, that is "tunerless", and I'm watching OTA HDTV, the "pass-thru" won't help me, since I need a tuner. So I'll be using the tuner on the 3575/76, and it will be output to my "tunerless" projector at 480i, or "upconverted" to a higher resolution, but the tuner won't pass an HDTV "tuned" signal to my "tunerless" projector.


Wajo, again, appreciate the support my friend. Sorry for the stupid question.


Trey
 
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