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I’ll take them out.

How do others take out the driver? Just tip the box?
I just lay a large pillow down and tip the box and sub onto it. You might have to find something to grab a hole in the sub to get it out. Depends if it sticks in there or not. I got some dental type picks that make so you can take them out easier if they are really stuck in there. Sometimes you can "tap" on the opposite end of the box when the sub is tipped to help loosen the driver too. The gasket tape from parts express can really "glue" them in though and that's when you will need a pick or something else to pry them loose.

https://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/hand-tools/screwdrivers-nut-drivers-sets/masterforce-reg-precision-hook-and-pick-set-4-piece/m82061/p-1444451312798.htm

Like @BassThatHz mentioned I wouldn't expect a lot out of a single 12" with 375watts. I have a B&C 18 with 1000watts plus and it would take around 4 your 12" to equal that so I think you might be expecting too much from a single 12. You might have to bridge that amp and run that to both 12s once you get them finished if you still want more output. I am not familiar with your amp and what it actually puts out vs advertised power.
 

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I think that sensitivity is for RCA only, the manual should say. This is assuming your amp is working and not broken/hissing.

Rythmik is a HT sub, it will have lots more output near 20hz etc.
Going from a 12 to a 12 isn't much of an upgrade.

Just make sure the output level is higher than the input level otherwise the input will clip and you will never reach max rated watts. -3db is only half power. -10db is 1/10th and -20db is 1/100th. The signal has to be strong for there to be watts and thus loudness.

Just don't smoke the sub, especially in bridged mode.
 

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I have several of the XLS series amps and have no problem with levels going to them and I'm using the 1.4 sensitivity setting. I have never needed any unbalanced to balanced converter. How are you getting the signal to them? Are you splitting the sub out between it and your other subs? If so and your subs are crossed at 80Hz, you aren't going to get much output from the MBM. The signal will start to roll off just as the MBMs are getting to the sweet spot. Make sure there is nothing in the receiver that is messing with the signal as well as check the DSP in the Crown amp.

I would also definitely remove the zip ties from the speaker. That could be causing a problem if it's not seated properly in the box.
 

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I am cautious to ask you this but what is sufficient SPL and what frequency range? (55-150hz?)
120db is a good start, at the lp, not 1m...
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
I think that sensitivity is for RCA only, the manual should say. This is assuming your amp is working and not broken/hissing.

Rythmik is a HT sub, it will have lots more output near 20hz etc.
Going from a 12 to a 12 isn't much of an upgrade.

Just make sure the output level is higher than the input level otherwise the input will clip and you will never reach max rated watts. -3db is only half power. -10db is 1/10th and -20db is 1/100th. The signal has to be strong for there to be watts and thus loudness.

Just don't smoke the sub, especially in bridged mode.
I just got the Cleanbox and it substantially upped the volume potential. When I had the Crown plugged in grounded it actually sounded much better (initailly I had a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter). What do you run your Cleanbox at? I was running it at Balanced Output of 10 but I'm not sure if that's "hot" or if that just means it's full passthrough?

It removed the 60Hz buzz (much like noise from a guitar,
) but now it's more of a subdued but noticeable static noise. Any idea how to get rid of that? What is that?

Also, I have to be real careful, when I turn off the Cleanbox with the amp on, it thumps big. So amp off first then Cleanbox off.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I have several of the XLS series amps and have no problem with levels going to them and I'm using the 1.4 sensitivity setting. I have never needed any unbalanced to balanced converter. How are you getting the signal to them? Are you splitting the sub out between it and your other subs? If so and your subs are crossed at 80Hz, you aren't going to get much output from the MBM. The signal will start to roll off just as the MBMs are getting to the sweet spot. Make sure there is nothing in the receiver that is messing with the signal as well as check the DSP in the Crown amp.

I would also definitely remove the zip ties from the speaker. That could be causing a problem if it's not seated properly in the box.
Without the converter I get a 60Hz buzz. I have Sub channel -> RCA -> miniDSP -> RCA -> XLS2002. The result is a 60Hz buzz. I'm going to remove that from the chain and see if that reduces any of the issue. I have my mains XO at 100Hz, center at 80Hz, and surrounds/tops at 120Hz.

The miniDSP acts as a "splitter" but it's a digital splitter. I've had issues with Y cables in the past.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I think that sensitivity is for RCA only, the manual should say. This is assuming your amp is working and not broken/hissing.

Rythmik is a HT sub, it will have lots more output near 20hz etc.
Going from a 12 to a 12 isn't much of an upgrade.

Just make sure the output level is higher than the input level otherwise the input will clip and you will never reach max rated watts. -3db is only half power. -10db is 1/10th and -20db is 1/100th. The signal has to be strong for there to be watts and thus loudness.

Just don't smoke the sub, especially in bridged mode.
The plan is to have the Rythmik handle 20 to 50, MBM's 50 to 120. The Rythmiks are hidden behind a couch (and I have them unhooked while I'm testing) the MBM's are right next to my mains. The idea being they will function as a 3rd/4th way speaker using the AVR's XO.
 

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Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
I just lay a large pillow down and tip the box and sub onto it. You might have to find something to grab a hole in the sub to get it out. Depends if it sticks in there or not. I got some dental type picks that make so you can take them out easier if they are really stuck in there. Sometimes you can "tap" on the opposite end of the box when the sub is tipped to help loosen the driver too. The gasket tape from parts express can really "glue" them in though and that's when you will need a pick or something else to pry them loose.

https://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/hand-tools/screwdrivers-nut-drivers-sets/masterforce-reg-precision-hook-and-pick-set-4-piece/m82061/p-1444451312798.htm

Like @BassThatHz mentioned I wouldn't expect a lot out of a single 12" with 375watts. I have a B&C 18 with 1000watts plus and it would take around 4 your 12" to equal that so I think you might be expecting too much from a single 12. You might have to bridge that amp and run that to both 12s once you get them finished if you still want more output. I am not familiar with your amp and what it actually puts out vs advertised power.
The XLS2002 is 375 advertised and real world which is why it's a lower number. This speaker can handle up to 1000W per the specs at DIYSG. My port-size cannot without severe chuffing. (according to WinISD)
 

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The XLS2002 is 375 advertised and real world which is why it's a lower number. This speaker can handle up to 1000W per the specs at DIYSG. My port-size cannot without severe chuffing.

I'd bridge it and set an limiter if need be. You also might want to experiment and see how much chuffing you can even hear at volume. I think a lot of people over estimate the amount of they will hear while the system is playing.


Do you have cable? I've had 3 different houses where the cable line wasn't grounded correctly and caused noise in my system.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
I'd bridge it and set an limiter if need be. You also might want to experiment and see how much chuffing you can even hear at volume. I think a lot of people over estimate the amount of they will hear while the system is playing.

Do you have cable? I've had 3 different houses where the cable line wasn't grounded correctly and caused noise in my system.
Does that include a cable modem?
Also, the Cleanbox stopped the 60Hz hum but there is still a low static-y hum if the gain is too high. It's much less noticeable. The Cleanbox has a gain boost in it and I'm able to get it to satisfactory volumes now. I just need to get rid of the static hum. I'm wondering if a noise gate would work for that?
 

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Discussion Starter #31
I have several of the XLS series amps and have no problem with levels going to them and I'm using the 1.4 sensitivity setting. I have never needed any unbalanced to balanced converter. How are you getting the signal to them? Are you splitting the sub out between it and your other subs? If so and your subs are crossed at 80Hz, you aren't going to get much output from the MBM. The signal will start to roll off just as the MBMs are getting to the sweet spot. Make sure there is nothing in the receiver that is messing with the signal as well as check the DSP in the Crown amp.

I would also definitely remove the zip ties from the speaker. That could be causing a problem if it's not seated properly in the box.
So I think I added 10dB gain on the Cleanbox and +6dB from the AVR. I then put on Prometheus during a pretty loud scene and played it at -15dB which I never would play (-20 is my loudest). I believe that's +1dB over reference assuming they mixed something to that level.

The signal meter went high but I don't think it clipped. Would it turn red if it were clipping? How would it indicate it wasn't feeding it enough power?

I have the High Pass Filter on the Crown at 40Hz. Also, I hooked it directly to the AVR and removed the MiniDSP from the signal chain. I still get a subdued static hum but the 60Hz hum is gone.
 

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Does that include a cable modem?
Also, the Cleanbox stopped the 60Hz hum but there is still a low static-y hum if the gain is too high. It's much less noticeable. The Cleanbox has a gain boost in it and I'm able to get it to satisfactory volumes now. I just need to get rid of the static hum. I'm wondering if a noise gate would work for that?

Yes, anything the cable would plug into, Modem, DVR etc and plugs into the wall. I would unplug the cable from the DVR and the noise would go away instantly. Put an ground loop isolator on and it helped quite a bit, still not completely silent, but can't hear it from listening position.


A noise gate will only silence the noise when there isn't a signal. Once you start watching a movie or playing music the noise will still come through.
 

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I am cautious to ask you this but what is sufficient SPL and what frequency range? (55-150hz?)
120db is a good start, at the lp, not 1m...

Wow you were daring to ask that question to BTH. I am almost shocked at the almost reasonable response. 120 DB is loud but not terribly back in my car audio days i was not happy till i was knocking on 140 DB and i knew people that could run in to the mid 150 DB range. I am anxiously awaiting my new SI 24" subs and we shall see what needs to be done from there.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I think that sensitivity is for RCA only, the manual should say. This is assuming your amp is working and not broken/hissing.

Rythmik is a HT sub, it will have lots more output near 20hz etc.
Going from a 12 to a 12 isn't much of an upgrade.

Just make sure the output level is higher than the input level otherwise the input will clip and you will never reach max rated watts. -3db is only half power. -10db is 1/10th and -20db is 1/100th. The signal has to be strong for there to be watts and thus loudness.

Just don't smoke the sub, especially in bridged mode.
I got rid of the 60 cycle hum with the CleanBox but still have a low static that’s contingent upon gain. Any ideas what that might be?
 

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I got rid of the 60 cycle hum with the CleanBox but still have a low static that’s contingent upon gain. Any ideas what that might be?
That is most likely just noise from an over-gained signal. If you have to turn up the clean box to max and the receiver to max just to make it sound decent, I think there is still an issue elsewhere in the signal chain.

Also, if you haven't already, turn off any room correction/dynamic EQ etc to rule that out.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
That is most likely just noise from an over-gained signal. If you have to turn up the clean box to max and the receiver to max just to make it sound decent, I think there is still an issue elsewhere in the signal chain.

Also, if you haven't already, turn off any room correction/dynamic EQ etc to rule that out.
I still have room on the AVR to go higher and I'm not sure if that AVR gain boost is applied unless there is a signal. I think the problem is the amp and the cleanbox. I remember having noise like this with my other subs during a long run or a poor connection via speaker wire on my left side surround after install.


I'm hoping it's the sub cable. I've had bad luck with these "shielded" sub cables. I have better luck with unshielded cheapos.
 

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I think that sensitivity is for RCA only, the manual should say. This is assuming your amp is working and not broken/hissing.

Rythmik is a HT sub, it will have lots more output near 20hz etc.
Going from a 12 to a 12 isn't much of an upgrade.

Just make sure the output level is higher than the input level otherwise the input will clip and you will never reach max rated watts. -3db is only half power. -10db is 1/10th and -20db is 1/100th. The signal has to be strong for there to be watts and thus loudness.

Just don't smoke the sub, especially in bridged mode.
Hi BTH, bringing this back a little and have a question about this comment I hope you can help me with concerning output level being higher than the input level?

I’m using an XBS 20k to drive 4 Danley DTS-10’s one per channel. I’m using a minidsp HD using one sub out from my pre/pro into one channel on the minidsp and then time aligning each Danley individually one each of the 4 outputs of the minidsp into the 4 channel of the XBS. I have all 4 channels maxed out and am then setting level by the input and output level adjustments on the minidsp. Does this sound correct (hope it makes sense).

Do I want the output of each channel on the minidsp higher the the single channel input I assume from your post I quoted?

Thanks for the help.
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
  • A few items of note: I was able to remove the hiss by setting up a 200Hz LPF
  • I've since purchased some Rotel 981's that I run bridged and get about the same 8 ohm load as the Crown so I don't need a clean box.
  • I found out today that I tuned them to 60Hz and not 40Hz. I'll be making some adjustments later today or tomorrow by shrinking the port (even if there's port noise I'll get a better feel).
  • Depending on how that goes I'll be making a new box likely if there's port noise
  • If I do rebuild the boxes I may test out a Peerless 835017 and a Dayton Reference HO tuned to 25Hz
CC: @BigJake82 @BassThatHz @Jedi940
 

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  • A few items of note: I was able to remove the hiss by setting up a 200Hz LPF
  • I've since purchased some Rotel 981's that I run bridged and get about the same 8 ohm load as the Crown so I don't need a clean box.
  • I found out today that I tuned them to 60Hz and not 40Hz. I'll be making some adjustments later today or tomorrow by shrinking the port (even if there's port noise I'll get a better feel).
  • Depending on how that goes I'll be making a new box likely if there's port noise
  • If I do rebuild the boxes I may test out a Peerless 835017 and a Dayton Reference HO tuned to 25Hz
CC: @BigJake82 @BassThatHz @Jedi940


Following this.. I own 10 drivers, 4 ea in LR towers snd 2 in CTR Channel. Tuned to 42Hz. 2 per cavity Im limited at 500W per driver by excursion if I recall. A 60Hz tune should yield very strong MB content.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

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Wanted to add some real world results with these.

After I read this I came home to do a quick test. I powered up only on double block of drivers, tuned to 42Hz.

Powering the pair was one channel of a QSC PLX1804. Thats advertised at 900w. One channel driven add 100 or so. Real world, not sure

Using my NAD 758v3 through a dBx Driverack 360 processor (2V output RCA to an XLR), LP cross over set at 180Hz for this test (normally 400), optimized gain structure, reference zero MV on NAD, PEQ flat for in room response- hiQ house bell curve of +3db peak at 150Hz and at 80Hz for tighter more pronounced Kick Drum, my music content (Bee Gees Live for great kick drum) at MLP was 126 db. One driver would most likely be 121. All 8 woofers engaged and just below clip on the amps I was seeing some occasional 140db peaks and no lower than 137.

Im going to run a sweep later with REW and do a few sine wave tests for various freqs.


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