I'm going back and fourth on whether i should pruchase the samsung 5000 or a ps3, this will be my first hd dvd player purchase. I'm not much of a gamer, but the ps3 seems to work well and fire up fast and has few issues. On the other hand, it would be great to have a unit that would play both formats. somebody push me in the right direction, please, get behind me and give me a big push.
Man it's a tough call
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I had a 5K, and - for me at least - it didn't work. Took it back and have bought a 40Gb PS3.
I have no SACDs (what?) and no PS2 games, and my real desire is to play my BDs and get the full sound.
For the same money, or slightly less, as a 5000, you can buy a PS3 and a Tosh A35! Go look on Amazon. Plus you'll get the free discs from each if you buy by the end of the month.
That's my 2p's worth.
Seggers
I had a 5K, and - for me at least - it didn't work. Took it back and have bought a 40Gb PS3.
I have no SACDs (what?) and no PS2 games, and my real desire is to play my BDs and get the full sound.
For the same money, or slightly less, as a 5000, you can buy a PS3 and a Tosh A35! Go look on Amazon. Plus you'll get the free discs from each if you buy by the end of the month.
That's my 2p's worth.
Seggers
You sound exactly like my good friend Todd, who called me with the same issue two days ago. Given Blu-ray's market penetration and the recent Warner announcement, Todd had pretty much settled on a PS3, but after coming over to watch "3:10 to Yuma" (Blu-ray) on my BD-UP5000, followed by a demonstration of the PIP special feature on "300" (HD DVD) he came away highly impressed.
You see, Todd, like you, is not so much a gamer as he is a movie enthusiast. Having the ability to play either format within seconds, save shelf space, and save connections is appealing to him.
I laid it out to him as I am doing here for you. Accept the fact that Blu-ray is going to win out (Blu-ray pundits are already stating that HD DVD is a dead format). Even if the studios supporting HD DVD were to announce a switch over to Blu-ray, it would take time to do so. The 400-plus current HD DVD titles exclusive to HD DVD would not come out in the days, weeks or months after such an announcement, but would rather happen over the course of a year or more.
If you truly enjoy movies, and are currently "fence sitting" on both formats and cannot wait (guessing) three years for the market to be completely switched to Blu-ray, dual format is the way to go (I'm not saying a single player solution, I am saying "dual format" which does not exclude the possibility of picking up two players).
Todd and I have similar setups at home. We made the purchases of the majority of our HT equipment prior to the HDMI standard becoming available and are relegated (for the time being) to SPDIF for audio and Component for video. Our receivers have multi-channel analog audio input to get around these limitations by using the multi-channel analog output of the BD-UP5000.
Next, it depends on how patient you are when it comes to smooth functionality, and "vailable" vs. features that are "yet to be enabled".
For better or worse, the home entertainment industry is moving more and more toward the "computer model" wherein products are being released for sale prior to the advertised features being enabled or prior to having bugs worked out. These issues are remedied by future firmware updates.
Samsung's first firmware update cured a few issues related to playback of particular titles, but there are still titles that are having issues with playback. Furthermore, there is the issue of the bitstreaming audio and multichannel TrueHD, which is said to be corrected with an upcoming firmware update due out in the spring (around May).
It is sad, that selling new product is not so much about functionality or bug free operation, as it is in getting to market before the competition, and figuring out how to make it work later. I like to call it, the "Microsoft Method", you can blame Bill Gates Jr for that.
With ever evolving Blu-ray BDJ (the Java based interactive programming language used on Blu-ray titles), future firmware updates will be required, in order to correct playback issues with new titles as they come to market.
Patience will be required for new technology of this type. Many have had issues that were unacceptable to them, and have chosen to return their 5000's until a time that the bugs are worked out. I have chosen to keep mine because I have experienced none of the audio or picture issues reported by others (possible due to my lack of HDMI), and LOVE not having to worry about which format I purchase.
It is true that I have had some issues with a few Blu-ray titles (3:10 to Yuma, Resident Evil Extinction) that would not play, but after the first firmware update, these are now playing for me without issue.
I realize that I am probably not of much help in that you must ultimately make the choice of which way to go. I can only provide you with one person's opinion. You've got to do the hard part.
So then. Can you pick up a player for each format? Absolutely, providing that you have got extra space, extra connections, and a wife who can understand that certain titles cannot play in certain players. If, however, you want to simplify, the BD-UP5000 is worth serious consideration. ...there is NO WAY that having two players will ever be as "pretty" as the single, sleak, "piano black" unit (another bonus for gaining favorable "Wife Approval").
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sheavy, good luck with which ever you choose, and keep in mind that you have 30 days in which to return it, should it not meet your needs or live up to your expectations.
Cheers!
Spence
You sound exactly like my good friend Todd, who called me with the same issue two days ago. Given Blu-ray's market penetration and the recent Warner announcement, Todd had pretty much settled on a PS3, but after coming over to watch "3:10 to Yuma" (Blu-ray) on my BD-UP5000, followed by a demonstration of the PIP special feature on "300" (HD DVD) he came away highly impressed.
You see, Todd, like you, is not so much a gamer as he is a movie enthusiast. Having the ability to play either format within seconds, save shelf space, and save connections is appealing to him.
I laid it out to him as I am doing here for you. Accept the fact that Blu-ray is going to win out (Blu-ray pundits are already stating that HD DVD is a dead format). Even if the studios supporting HD DVD were to announce a switch over to Blu-ray, it would take time to do so. The 400-plus current HD DVD titles exclusive to HD DVD would not come out in the days, weeks or months after such an announcement, but would rather happen over the course of a year or more.
If you truly enjoy movies, and are currently "fence sitting" on both formats and cannot wait (guessing) three years for the market to be completely switched to Blu-ray, dual format is the way to go (I'm not saying a single player solution, I am saying "dual format" which does not exclude the possibility of picking up two players).
Todd and I have similar setups at home. We made the purchases of the majority of our HT equipment prior to the HDMI standard becoming available and are relegated (for the time being) to SPDIF for audio and Component for video. Our receivers have multi-channel analog audio input to get around these limitations by using the multi-channel analog output of the BD-UP5000.
Next, it depends on how patient you are when it comes to smooth functionality, and "vailable" vs. features that are "yet to be enabled".
For better or worse, the home entertainment industry is moving more and more toward the "computer model" wherein products are being released for sale prior to the advertised features being enabled or prior to having bugs worked out. These issues are remedied by future firmware updates.
Samsung's first firmware update cured a few issues related to playback of particular titles, but there are still titles that are having issues with playback. Furthermore, there is the issue of the bitstreaming audio and multichannel TrueHD, which is said to be corrected with an upcoming firmware update due out in the spring (around May).
It is sad, that selling new product is not so much about functionality or bug free operation, as it is in getting to market before the competition, and figuring out how to make it work later. I like to call it, the "Microsoft Method", you can blame Bill Gates Jr for that.
With ever evolving Blu-ray BDJ (the Java based interactive programming language used on Blu-ray titles), future firmware updates will be required, in order to correct playback issues with new titles as they come to market.
Patience will be required for new technology of this type. Many have had issues that were unacceptable to them, and have chosen to return their 5000's until a time that the bugs are worked out. I have chosen to keep mine because I have experienced none of the audio or picture issues reported by others (possible due to my lack of HDMI), and LOVE not having to worry about which format I purchase.
It is true that I have had some issues with a few Blu-ray titles (3:10 to Yuma, Resident Evil Extinction) that would not play, but after the first firmware update, these are now playing for me without issue.
I realize that I am probably not of much help in that you must ultimately make the choice of which way to go. I can only provide you with one person's opinion. You've got to do the hard part.
So then. Can you pick up a player for each format? Absolutely, providing that you have got extra space, extra connections, and a wife who can understand that certain titles cannot play in certain players. If, however, you want to simplify, the BD-UP5000 is worth serious consideration. ...there is NO WAY that having two players will ever be as "pretty" as the single, sleak, "piano black" unit (another bonus for gaining favorable "Wife Approval").
sheavy, good luck with which ever you choose, and keep in mind that you have 30 days in which to return it, should it not meet your needs or live up to your expectations.
Cheers!
Spence
Until I finally acquired a 5000, I was using a PS3 for Blu-Ray.
Overall it worked fine, but I never liked using a Blue-Tooth remote,
no player controls on the unit , or that the PS3 gets very hot and has a noisy fan.
The reason so many of us got the 5000 is the obvious, we have invested
in both formats, and I think it will be years before HD-Dvd goes away.
Not to mention some Discs will likley never convert from HD to Blu-ray.
Also many of us are interested in the 5000 based on the fact the hopefully
soon it will internally decode all audio formats, making this a very unique unit.
In the time I have had the PS3 it must have has at least ten firmware
updates, for gaming , video, and other applications..
I expect the Sammy will also have countless updates
Bob
Overall it worked fine, but I never liked using a Blue-Tooth remote,
no player controls on the unit , or that the PS3 gets very hot and has a noisy fan.
The reason so many of us got the 5000 is the obvious, we have invested
in both formats, and I think it will be years before HD-Dvd goes away.
Not to mention some Discs will likley never convert from HD to Blu-ray.
Also many of us are interested in the 5000 based on the fact the hopefully
soon it will internally decode all audio formats, making this a very unique unit.
In the time I have had the PS3 it must have has at least ten firmware
updates, for gaming , video, and other applications..
I expect the Sammy will also have countless updates
Bob
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1,203 Posts
The 5000 is to be discontinued in a few months. You might want to wait or look at a different player - unless having a discontinued product is ok with you.
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354 Posts
Well, at some point, we all have discontinued products!
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I must admit, as an owner of a 5000, I am now torn. I was going to keep it, since I enjoyed the REON (even with the stretching), and most of my BD had 5.1 Uncompressed tracks. However, the more BD and HDDVD I buy, the more i need DD+, DTS-HD, and TrueHD.
My return date is the 27th, and I am stuck at the Hyatt Regency DFW until tomorrow. I now need to figure out which HD-DVD's I can get on BD and when, and determine if I can live without those HDDVD movies. (Yes, I have an A2, but I don't want to do separates).
That desire to not want separates is making me lean towards keeping this, and if/when a CE (maybe not Samsung) comes out with a DF layer with the advanced audio, I can move the 5000 to the bedroom.
Well, at some point, we all have discontinued products!
I must admit, as an owner of a 5000, I am now torn. I was going to keep it, since I enjoyed the REON (even with the stretching), and most of my BD had 5.1 Uncompressed tracks. However, the more BD and HDDVD I buy, the more i need DD+, DTS-HD, and TrueHD.
My return date is the 27th, and I am stuck at the Hyatt Regency DFW until tomorrow. I now need to figure out which HD-DVD's I can get on BD and when, and determine if I can live without those HDDVD movies. (Yes, I have an A2, but I don't want to do separates).
That desire to not want separates is making me lean towards keeping this, and if/when a CE (maybe not Samsung) comes out with a DF layer with the advanced audio, I can move the 5000 to the bedroom.
Saying a "few" months, makes it sound so soon! I prefer to look at it as being discontinued in just under half of a year!
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Face it, a product becoming discontinued is as inevitable as death and taxes. The hardware lifecycle is in an ever-shorter spiral. Anything purchase today is outdated by the time you get it connected.
The next best replacement dual player will not be available until the end of 2008 at the very soonest.
Advice given recent revelations? If you don't have movies on HD DVD, go with Blu-ray as a single long term solution and wait for HD DVD titles to come out on that format.
As for me? I'll be sticking with my BD-UP5000. When it's successor comes out at the end of the year, I'll be upgrading to the latest release, and roll the 5K down to a secondary television.
Cheers,
Spence
Saying a "few" months, makes it sound so soon! I prefer to look at it as being discontinued in just under half of a year!
Face it, a product becoming discontinued is as inevitable as death and taxes. The hardware lifecycle is in an ever-shorter spiral. Anything purchase today is outdated by the time you get it connected.
The next best replacement dual player will not be available until the end of 2008 at the very soonest.
Advice given recent revelations? If you don't have movies on HD DVD, go with Blu-ray as a single long term solution and wait for HD DVD titles to come out on that format.
As for me? I'll be sticking with my BD-UP5000. When it's successor comes out at the end of the year, I'll be upgrading to the latest release, and roll the 5K down to a secondary television.
Cheers,
Spence
I think they are discontinuing the product because it is not going to do what they say it is going to do.If you can't fix it, just replace it. The 5500 is a lesser model without the reon and analog outs but it might at least bitstream but it is a 1.1 model. The 6500 is suppossed to be the best but they said the same thing about the 5000.
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188 Posts
I had a bd-p1400 for blu-ray playback and a hd-a1 for hd-dvd...bought a few movies on each side, then about a week later Warner made their big announcement..sigh..So, I decided to sell the hd-dvd stuff and just do blu-ray for a while....well then it was between keeping the 1400 or getting a ps3. For me it all came down to the ps3 being more future-proof and having a higher resell value in a year or so. Think about it, the standalone units, like dvd players before them, get updated constantly and if you want to upgrade to a better one in a year, chances are you won't get much for the old unit. But with a ps3, it will be around for quite a few years at least because it's a gaming system. Couple that with the fact that the ps3 has probably the quickest load times and no real playback glitches, AND that I could get it for the same or less price than a standalone...I returned the 1400 and got the ps3 (sonystyle.com with $100 credit). I have no intentions of gaming, but I guess it's nice to have the option. I got the ps3 in the other day and I am impressed. To me anyway, it's a very sleek machine in both looks and features. I feel like I made a good choice.
Please don't listen to me.
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Everyone needs to find what makes them happy. For some, only perfection will do. My player meets my needs. I expect it will will continue to do so for quite some time, so I am keeping it.
I am not wise nor am I trying to influence people one way or the other.
...but I did sleep in a Holiday inn last night while saving a ton of money by switching to Geiko.
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Keep a sense of humor people! After all, it's still only television.
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Spence
Quote:
Originally Posted by peeweep69 /forum/post/12911580
Yea listen to SpenceJT, I think he's got more posts than anyone about bugs and gremins in the Bd-up5000 threads. Got my money back from BB.![]()
Please don't listen to me.
Everyone needs to find what makes them happy. For some, only perfection will do. My player meets my needs. I expect it will will continue to do so for quite some time, so I am keeping it.
I am not wise nor am I trying to influence people one way or the other.
...but I did sleep in a Holiday inn last night while saving a ton of money by switching to Geiko.
Keep a sense of humor people! After all, it's still only television.
Spence
Joined
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2,504 Posts
SpenceJT and I have agreed to disagree on at least one thing here.
Just because someone has 316 posts, or 1, or 10,000 for that matter, doesn't make them any better, or worse, than any other poster here.
People have their views. His is to keep it, mine (and an increasing number here) was to take it back.
$800 for a dud is no laughing matter.
Seggers
Quote:
Originally Posted by peeweep69 /forum/post/12911580
Yea listen to SpenceJT, I think he's got more posts than anyone about bugs and gremins in the Bd-up5000 threads. Got my money back from BB.![]()
SpenceJT and I have agreed to disagree on at least one thing here.
Just because someone has 316 posts, or 1, or 10,000 for that matter, doesn't make them any better, or worse, than any other poster here.
People have their views. His is to keep it, mine (and an increasing number here) was to take it back.
$800 for a dud is no laughing matter.
Seggers
I fully agree with you regarding number of posts related to who is right or wrong. I've never claimed to be either. As a matter of fact, I am doubting my judgement in deciding to keep the player, but I have faith and patience.
As for calling it a "dud"?
I wouldn't call it a dud, but that's based on my needs alone and no one else.
I haven't heard of an SD DVD that it will not play, so my modest library is covered.
Of the twenty Blu-ray titles, I have one title (Sunshine) that is unwatchable. I had three titles that were unwatchable up until the first firmware update, so things are progressing in the right direction.
Of the over 800 available HD DVD and Blu-ray titles, there what... five or so titles that have issues rendering the movies un-watchable?
Is the player perfect? Not by any stretch of the imagination.
I currently have no HDMI-anything and no receiver currently capable of decoding the new codecs. The audio that I'm getting via my SPDIF/TOSLink connection is better than anything I've ever had, so I am pleased. Perhaps it is because I do not have HDMI connections, I am not seeing the video issues or hearing the audio dropouts that others have reported. I am okay with that.
Is it a "dud"? Not for me. Is it a "fizzle"? Sure, I can currently agree on fizzle, but I can't give you the "dud". I have said currently, as I strongly believe that additional firmware updates can and will address at least 85% of this player's current problems.
Cheers Seggers (and everyone else). Thank you for the thought provoking, intelligent, entertaining and civil debate!
Spence
P.S. Once I get to Best Buy this weekend with my 20% discount coupon, I'll have my price down to $480 (taking into account the $160 from the sale of my old Kenwood Elite Changer). I can live with a Duo HD player for under $500!
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I fully agree with you regarding number of posts related to who is right or wrong. I've never claimed to be either. As a matter of fact, I am doubting my judgement in deciding to keep the player, but I have faith and patience.
As for calling it a "dud"?
- It currently works at about 85% of it's advertised video capability.
- It currently works at about 50% of it's advertised audio capability.
- It currently works at 0% of it's advertised BD Profile 1.1.
I wouldn't call it a dud, but that's based on my needs alone and no one else.
I haven't heard of an SD DVD that it will not play, so my modest library is covered.
Of the twenty Blu-ray titles, I have one title (Sunshine) that is unwatchable. I had three titles that were unwatchable up until the first firmware update, so things are progressing in the right direction.
Of the over 800 available HD DVD and Blu-ray titles, there what... five or so titles that have issues rendering the movies un-watchable?
Is the player perfect? Not by any stretch of the imagination.
I currently have no HDMI-anything and no receiver currently capable of decoding the new codecs. The audio that I'm getting via my SPDIF/TOSLink connection is better than anything I've ever had, so I am pleased. Perhaps it is because I do not have HDMI connections, I am not seeing the video issues or hearing the audio dropouts that others have reported. I am okay with that.
Is it a "dud"? Not for me. Is it a "fizzle"? Sure, I can currently agree on fizzle, but I can't give you the "dud". I have said currently, as I strongly believe that additional firmware updates can and will address at least 85% of this player's current problems.
Cheers Seggers (and everyone else). Thank you for the thought provoking, intelligent, entertaining and civil debate!
Spence
P.S. Once I get to Best Buy this weekend with my 20% discount coupon, I'll have my price down to $480 (taking into account the $160 from the sale of my old Kenwood Elite Changer). I can live with a Duo HD player for under $500!
Whether or not you think the 5500 is going to be a lesser player depends on what you value. The 5500 is supposedly going to offer full support of the advanced audio codecs - decoding them internally as well as bitstreaming them to your receiver.
I value that more than I would the Reon and the analog outs.
Sigh.. One day they'll have complete players at affordable prices so we don't have to choose the features we want. That day is obviously not yet here.
Whether or not you think the 5500 is going to be a lesser player depends on what you value. The 5500 is supposedly going to offer full support of the advanced audio codecs - decoding them internally as well as bitstreaming them to your receiver.
I value that more than I would the Reon and the analog outs.
Sigh.. One day they'll have complete players at affordable prices so we don't have to choose the features we want. That day is obviously not yet here.
Joined
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2,504 Posts
By your logic, I put 4 (well 6 if you include multiple TOS discs) HD DVDs and they all failed, so that equals 100% failure.
I put 2 BDs in and one had visual issues, so that equals 50% failure.
I'll go halfs and call it about 65-75% failure overall.
In my book, that's a dud.
I also use TOS link into my old Denon 2802. Once my new 2808CI arrives, then the audio codec also becomes a high %age failure rate. More dud'ness.
Again, IMHO, the player didn't even come close to being adequate.
I really hope you can keep those rose tinted glasses of yours...
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And I have had the best time online knocking around in the AVS forums that I can remember for a long time.
Seggers
By your logic, I put 4 (well 6 if you include multiple TOS discs) HD DVDs and they all failed, so that equals 100% failure.
I put 2 BDs in and one had visual issues, so that equals 50% failure.
I'll go halfs and call it about 65-75% failure overall.
In my book, that's a dud.
I also use TOS link into my old Denon 2802. Once my new 2808CI arrives, then the audio codec also becomes a high %age failure rate. More dud'ness.
Again, IMHO, the player didn't even come close to being adequate.
I really hope you can keep those rose tinted glasses of yours...
And I have had the best time online knocking around in the AVS forums that I can remember for a long time.
Seggers
I still don't understand your math.
Are you applying my logic (in which I provided a general overview of the estimated 800+ titles available on all HDM vs. the ten or so titles reported to have problems) to one title (Star Trek TOS) made up of six discs?
You are correct of course in applying it at that level, which I had never though about, but isn't that kind of like the story of the blind men describing the elephant?
Fine tune any statistic and you can create nearly any outcome that you like, but look at the big picture... either way, people will educate and decide for themselves, as you have, and as I have.
I'm neither a "half empty" or "half full" type of person, because in reality the glass is always "full". Half filled with a gas, and half filled with a solid.
...unless living in a vacuum.
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Spence
P.S. No Rose colored glasses. I wear contact lenses.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers /forum/post/12912841
By your logic, I put 4 (well 6 if you include multiple TOS discs) HD DVDs and they all failed, so that equals 100% failure.
I put 2 BDs in and one had visual issues, so that equals 50% failure.
I'll go halfs and call it about 65-75% failure overall.
In my book, that's a dud.
I also use TOS link into my old Denon 2802. Once my new 2808CI arrives, then the audio codec also becomes a high %age failure rate. More dud'ness.
Again, IMHO, the player didn't even come close to being adequate.
I really hope you can keep those rose tinted glasses of yours...![]()
And I have had the best time online knocking around in the AVS forums that I can remember for a long time.
Seggers
I still don't understand your math.
Are you applying my logic (in which I provided a general overview of the estimated 800+ titles available on all HDM vs. the ten or so titles reported to have problems) to one title (Star Trek TOS) made up of six discs?
You are correct of course in applying it at that level, which I had never though about, but isn't that kind of like the story of the blind men describing the elephant?
Fine tune any statistic and you can create nearly any outcome that you like, but look at the big picture... either way, people will educate and decide for themselves, as you have, and as I have.
I'm neither a "half empty" or "half full" type of person, because in reality the glass is always "full". Half filled with a gas, and half filled with a solid.
...unless living in a vacuum.
Spence
P.S. No Rose colored glasses. I wear contact lenses.
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