[HoustonGuy]

Conclusion- 99%(if not 100%) Of the Panny E-80 DVDR Recovery Was in The Media(DVD-R's). I have tested this model extensively and firmly am convinced of this. Why, based on my tests ,would this not apply to other models drives? Well it would ,IMHO.

Taiyo Yudens(made in Japan and not Korea)-both 4x and 8x are perfect so far.. To summarize, There is a lot of crap DVD-R blank discs out there that are screwing up your DVDR's ability to achieve. However this does NOT mean that many of these DVDRs are not crap also.

 

[Jay Davis]

There's another recent thread blaming the hardware. I'm being facetious but, maybe we should just go back to VHS.

 

[Kelson]

I think it just underscores the interdependence of hardware-media. DVD-R burning is new and still evolving -- rapidly. In this business hardware earns the title "old" 9 months after the unit is released to market. Everytime you buy a new pack of media, you really are buying "new" media that has advanced through development and production cycles. Once you buy a recorder or player your hardware is fixed in time. You are in an ever-widening technology gap between media and hardware. The better quality hardware will cope.

 

[JeffWld]

Quote:

Originally posted by HoustonGuy Conclusion- 99%(if not 100%) Of the Panny E-80 DVDR Recovery Was in The Media(DVD-R's). I have tested this model extensively and firmly am convinced of this. Why, based on my tests ,would this not apply to other models drives? Well it would ,IMHO.

Absolute nonsense. There has already been discussion that Panasonic burners have the poorest record for media tolerance. Your theory also does not extend to other models since there have been issues with the E-100 producing finalization failures with TY media. I have also had this experience.


It's interesting that there is so much discussion about media issues with Panasonic users. I've worked extensively with Panasonic units and Pioneer units and can tell you that after thousands of discs and almost every media brand under the sun, I have never, never, ever once had a recovery error with a Pioneer unit. However, I've had plenty with the Panasonic units that are plagued with out of date firmware-which is at the root of most recovery errors.


I have been a big supporter of Panasonic in the past, but their burners are the weakest link. Panasonic has the worst track record for developing firmware updates across emerging models. As I stated in a previous post, the E-80 burner has firmware which is virtually identical to that of the E-20 which was manufactured two years earlier. This is one of the reasons that Panasonic users continue to have erratic performance from Ritek media.


Your theory that TY media seems to be the only media that produces a winning formula on Panasonic equipment leads me to a very different conclusion than yours.

 

[jobedo]

i always use cheap disk and the only recover error i have had was when i was all set to burn and and the recorder said it would have to re-encode and i noticed i put the same file in twice i took it out and tried to burn and it went in to recovery


jo

 

[Mr2Spyder]

I have burned over 100 DVD-R's using cheap "CMC Magnetics" media (panasonic and Khypermedia brand) using an NEC and Lite-on burner without a single coaster. So far I have not noticed a difference between the cheap media and the more expensive (Taiyo Yuden and Maxell) ones. For some movies I have made two backups using the same hardware. I made identical copies on the cheap media and the "quality" media. I will see down the road if the more expensive media holds up better over time.

 

[patsy1099]

It's definitely not nonsense. The media you use "can" make a huge difference. I think it depends on your unit (hardware) and how it handles the burning process.


Using my pc, I can use any media I want, never a problem. How the media might degrade over time and how it may handles smudges, easily scratch, etc., remains to be seen.


But on my DVR, the Toshiba XS32, it is VERY sensitive to media. It can use only a very small subset of media, only the best and highest quality. "Sometimes" other media will work, but it is very inconsistent. I believe it could be due to a couple of different things: Toshiba trying to burn ONLY at 4X and unless a particular media is truly capable of buring at this speed, it fails, it doesn't ratchet down the speed.


Now you might blame this on Toshiba for not making their unit more flexible and tolerant of different media, maybe they should dynamically adjust the buring speed to allow for lower quality media, etc. and I wouldn't completely disagree with you. But I also see this with other hardware out there. So media DEFINITELY and ABSOLUTELY makes a difference in certain DVD -R hardware applications and you should be aware of such. If this bothers you then you should either return your unit, stick with high quality media, or find lower quality media that for whatever reason seems to work. But if you start getting errors, your first and most probable culprit is the media. IMHO of course.


I have always found great prices and good selection of high quality media at: meritline dot com (I have absolutely no affiliation with them!)

 

[chai_tea]

Quote:

I have always found great prices and good selection of high quality media at: meritline dot com (I have absolutely no affiliation with them!)

Have you ever had to return media? I've had such hit-or-miss results, that's paramount to my buying online these days.

 

[patsy1099]

I can't say I've ever had to return media. If my purchase is for hardware or something expensive, then yes I am cautious about the site I buy from. Meritline has a good rep. They are recommended by doom9.org which is a big dvd ripping site.


That said, why would you return media? If it's bad, damaged, then I would think you could refuse delivery or try to return it. If that doesn't work then you can fight it on your credit card. That's a pain of course but as I said, don't know why media would fall into the return category, I view them as a commodity.

 

[Bizkymo]

I wonder why it's taking the DVD recording technology to mature. I remember years ago when the DVD-R units first emerge on the scene, when there was a lot of talk about compatibility issues and non-standardized discs (not sure if that's the right word). Back then I decided to ignore the DVD-R market for a few years untill it got its act together. I purchased a DVD recorder a few weeks ago thinking that everything was settled. Not so. We still have competing formats of discs (-R, +R, RW, RAM). The disc making process still has not been refined, resulting in there being an overwhelming amount of crappy discs on store shelves. There is still incompatibility issues meaning that if you burn a disc there is no gaurantee that it will work on older dvd players or even newer players that don't support the disc format. Overall, after many years (relatively speaking) the DVD recording technology is still in its infancy, or better put, stillborn. When will it grow up? I doubt that the cassette, vcr, and cd recording technology took half as long to mature. I bet the reasons behind the dvd-r technology having so many problems is because of greed on the part of the devolopers and perpetual patience on the part of the consumers. The movers and shakers in the dvd market should come together and agree on a standadized dvd format (still not sure if that's the right word) and end the confusion over -R, +R, etc. The consumers should put an end to their long suffering patience and demand better technology. How long are we going to tolerate crap discs and incompatibility issues with the excuse "the DVD recording technology is still in it's infancy"? The way things are going, 10 years from now we will still have the same issues that we have today.

 

[Kelson]

BIZKYMO -- You certainly have a valid point and I'm wondering about that myself. What really seems funny to me is that no one ever really complains about PC burners and media problems. The only comments I usually see fall into the "success with any media" category -- I can certainly add my experience to the plus column. While I'm sure not all media burns in PC burners with 100% reliability, it certainly seems PC burners have DVDR burners beat by a good margin.


So how come?!? A DVDR is just an application specific PC. It uses a standard ATA hard disk and probably a standard ATA burner as well. Are these guys putting the absolute rock-bottom quality components in these things -- the ones that are rejected by the PC makers. Maybe your supposition of greed and complacent consumers is not too far off the mark.

 

[JeffWld]

Quote:

Originally posted by patsy1099 It's definitely not nonsense. The media you use "can" make a huge difference. But on my DVR, the Toshiba XS32, it is VERY sensitive to media.

You need to go back and understand the point of the original post. HG's claim of finding the holy grail of media is based on a given success rate on the Panasonic E-80. Period. My comments about media and hardware simply point out that Panasonic burners have a history of limited media support, therefore it doesn't give an accurate picture of the integrity of other brands of media which perform perfectly in many the majority of other brands of burners.


It's interesting that you have characterized your Toshiba as "very sensitive". No wonder. It is equipped with a Panasonic OEM burner. Therefore, my comments still stand.

 

[chai_tea]

Quote:

That said, why would you return media?

In the 5 months that I've owned my recorder, a number of times I've run into problems with certain brands of media not working. In some cases the discs won't finalize, and in others it they just spin around endlessly upon insertion, and sometimes won't even eject without a long argument.


It's been a hit-or-miss process to find the brands and speeds that will work flawlessly for me. I'd be tossing my recorder out the window if all those "miss" media were unreturnable!

 

[spiderman2k1]

I have the E80 never had one problem burned about 300 DVD-R all different brands. May be I got lucky but I bought my E80 right after X-mess in 2003 one week before NFL play offs start. May be Panasonic change there burners in the later E80 or update the firmware. The only bad thng about Pionner the 510 its not good with VHS does any one know if the newer models fixed this problem? Thanks

 

[Jay Davis]

Forgive me but this thread reminds me of the beer commercial. Great taste----Less filling.


In all seriousness IMHO we'd better stop posting on the subject of media vs hardware and devote time and resources to what I believe is a bigger problem. The increasing number of posts concerning burn fading or increased errors noted several years later (posted on CDFreaks about Ritek). If it can be documented as happening what's the point of fooling around with this stuff. I'm now considering backing up by VHS to DVD home videos to an external harddrive as I compete each title. Paying $500.00 to $600.00 for 2 or 3 drives maybe the only way to assure content viability.

 

[john ross]

When i first ventured into this I had a go video recorder and bought a pack of 50 verbatim disks at Sam's club. Back then 1 year ago 60 dollars was cheap for 50. I had 1out of every 4 become a coaster or have recording problems. Go video blames the media as it was not tested on their hardware. I have since bought a pioneer 510 and using the same disks I burned a hundred so far. So a hardware media incompatibility can exist and cause problems. But it has nothing to do with the cost of the disk. The memorex cost 100 for 50 at the time or so.

 

[john ross]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jay Davis Forgive me but this thread reminds me of the beer commercial. Great taste----Less filling. In all seriousness IMHO we'd better stop posting on the subject of media vs hardware and devote time and resources to what I believe is a bigger problem. The increasing number of posts concerning burn fading or increased errors noted several years later (posted on CDFreaks about Ritek). If it can be documented as happening what's the point of fooling around with this stuff. I'm now considering backing up by VHS to DVD home videos to an external harddrive as I compete each title. Paying $500.00 to $600.00 for 2 or 3 drives maybe the only way to assure content viability.

If we could hack the hard drive recorders we could have our cake and eat it too!

 

[Jay Davis]

John Ross - Interesting and intriguing. Maybe we should start a thread of what we would like to do or see in a DVDR. I'd like bidirectional firewire. Removable HDD. Ability to tweak the pick up or firmware to accept all media. Who do we talk to to get them to dissect one these suckers. If they're similar to PC's(motherboard, HDD and burner) how difficult would it be?


Anybody else feel free to chime in.

 

[Kelson]

I have a strong suspicion that DVDR functionality is going to continue to be heavily influenced by the desires of the content providers and the pressures they put on the consumer electroics companies to limit that functionality. As it stands now it is very easy for one skilled in the art to record a broadcast on DVDR, transfer it to PC, re-encode it to a more compact video format for distribution over the Internet and then do so with P2P. I would think the content providers would seek to plug that hole rather than allow it to be widened. They are making a fortune selling TV re-runs on DVD.

 

[HoustonGuy]

Well jeffwild, you love pioneer- do you love the fact that they cannot dupe a VHS as well as the panny e-80 and others? You know that. Don't crayfish now. You say pio never recovers or does coasters? that is a bald faced lie. Do not do this to the readers of this board. It not only smacks of idiocy but arrogance. You are flat ass wrong.