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Marantz AV8805 15.2 XLR Pre/Pro Official Thread

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#1 · (Edited)

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#3 ·
Hey Frank:)

Welp! here we go ,time to find out if the upgrade repelant will work or not. I'm glad to see the same dac in place and the adjustabilty of the Audyssey app may just level the playing field as far as DRC ? I have two channels left over from my 8ch NuForce MCA 18 and 4 left over speakers I used for Atmos of which two could be used as wides. I think the repelants wearing off already :D Not many other options out there at the moment that hits all my needs and as much as I'd like to try something new , the 8805 is looking tempting. I'm now going to apply more repelant:eek::D
 
#8 ·
Christmas comes early.

I need to see full specifications. When will the AV8805 become available?
 
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#11 ·
For me, the competitor for this will be the Emotiva RMC-1, especially as I have one of the 40% off cards. However, I would really like to simplify my rack so the new Denon Flagship (AVR 8500) is in the mix. The early pages of the 8802 thread had a lot of pictures showing the very significant physical component differences between the 8802 and the 7702MkII. It's clear that the most discerning audiophile would consider the 8802 to be superior to the 7702MkII, even if to my ears in an ordinary Home Theater I could't hear the difference. Hence, the reason I went with the 7702MkII. From the photos, I don't see how Denon will be able to put 13(?) amps in the upcoming AVR 8500 with the processing circuitry of the 8805 in the same size box, so it will, of necessity, have a lot fewer components. I'm guessing that the current Denon Flagship Receiver (AVR 7702) has a processing section closer to the 7702MkII than the 8802 and so I suspect that the Denon 8500 will be similarly "downrezzed" from the AV8805. There is no information on whether a step-down 13-ch processor a la the 7702MkII is in the offing, but I wouldn't be surprised as the engineering will have been done for the AVR 8500. I've seen comment that for an ordinary sort of 12' x 14' Home Theater principally for multi-channel playback (and not 2-ch audio), the flagship receivers are good enough, as compared to full-on separates. Would anyone care to offer their thoughts on this?
 
#12 ·
For me, the competitor for this will be the Emotiva RMC-1, especially as I have one of the 40% off cards. However, I would really like to simplify my rack so the new Denon Flagship (AVR 8500) is in the mix. The early pages of the 8802 thread had a lot of pictures showing the very significant physical component differences between the 8802 and the 7702MkII. It's clear that the most discerning audiophile would consider the 8802 to be superior to the 7702MkII, even if to my ears in an ordinary Home Theater I could't hear the difference. Hence, the reason I went with the 7702MkII. From the photos, I don't see how Denon will be able to put 13(?) amps in the upcoming AVR 8500 with the processing circuitry of the 8805 in the same size box, so it will, of necessity, have a lot fewer components. I'm guessing that the current Denon Flagship Receiver (AVR 7702) has a processing section closer to the 7702MkII than the 8802 and so I suspect that the Denon 8500 will be similarly "downrezzed" from the AV8805. There is no information on whether a step-down 13-ch processor a la the 7702MkII is in the offing, but I wouldn't be surprised as the engineering will have been done for the AVR 8500. I've seen comment that for an ordinary sort of 12' x 14' Home Theater principally for multi-channel playback (and not 2-ch audio), the flagship receivers are good enough, as compared to full-on separates. Would anyone care to offer their thoughts on this?
Nah ... the AV7702MKII is more akin to the Denon X4200W in both processing power and DAC while the flagship X7200WA is more akin to the AV8802A.
 
#14 ·
As an 8802A owner and AVS member in good standing, I want to upgrade...just because that is what we do here on AVS. I am trying to justify to myself why I need this unit and not sure I can come up with something. I know it has the additional two channels I could use for Atmos (I already use 4..not sure 6 is that important to ME). The Audyssey app is somewhat exciting but I think that is coming to the 8802A via firmware update ? I don't need HDMI 2.1 as of today (assuming that makes it to this unit, I have not yet seen it advertised). What am I missing?

Somebody talk me into something here :)
 
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#19 ·
Balance in all things. Following the logic of @SteveH (who was responsible for all the great 8802/7702 comparison photos), I should take the Polk (albeit their hi -end) speakers as my baseline and match the other audio components to them in performance. I respect this opinion, as I am happy with the Polks in my HT. Per JD's response on processor power (first I've ever read on this comparison--thank you very much):
If AV7702 MkII > X4200W, and
AV8802A > X7200WA, then
AV7704 > X4400W All of these are 11.1

So, if I want 13.1 early next year, I must go to the flagship AV 8805 receiver or the X8500H (or RMC-1) and be out of balance with my speakers. If I want to stay in balance, but still have 13.1 ch of processing power; I'll have to wait for the replacement for the X6400W (or AV7705?), which might have 13.1 ch of processing? Following the usual D/M timing, these models would be announced mid-2018, or so.

This sounds like a reasonable plan, if I can fight off ungradeitis. Comments?
 
#24 ·
Balance in all things. Following the logic of @SteveH (who was responsible for all the great 8802/7702 comparison photos), I should take the Polk (albeit their hi -end) speakers as my baseline and match the other audio components to them in performance. I respect this opinion, as I am happy with the Polks in my HT. Per JD's response on processor power (first I've ever read on this comparison--thank you very much):
If AV7702 MkII > X4200W, and
AV8802A > X7200WA, then
AV7704 > X4400W All of these are 11.1

So, if I want 13.1 early next year, I must go to the flagship AV 8805 receiver or the X8500H (or RMC-1) and be out of balance with my speakers. If I want to stay in balance, but still have 13.1 ch of processing power; I'll have to wait for the replacement for the X6400W (or AV7705?), which might have 13.1 ch of processing? Following the usual D/M timing, these models would be announced mid-2018, or so.

This sounds like a reasonable plan, if I can fight off ungradeitis. Comments?
Highly unlikely. Only the "flagship" AV8805 and X8500H models are likely to retain that honor for a few years to set them apart.
 
#21 ·
Hi again,

Concerning the DACs, the specs sheet of the 8805 above indicates AKM AK4490, which are indicated as being "premium"... a direct differentiation from the 7704...

Now my personal interest in the 8805 lies in that - as the specs sheet above indicates - this 8805 will have a 9.2.4 capacity, aka it will be able to process wides in Atmos. This interest coming from the fact that our installation is 9.2.6.

And for those interested in getting an idea of what 9.X.X configurations can provide, some time ago I wrote an article for HCFR directly comparing 7.1.4 and 9.1.4 reproductions (+ 9.1.6 & 21.1.8, all this with the exceptional Trinnov Altitude 32...), it's available here (in French) :

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/dolby-...ns-7-2-4-7-1-7-1-array-9-1-4-9-1-6-et-21-1-8/

So in our case Spring 2018 (availability of the 8805 as JD indicated above) will be a tough period to decide which option to choose a 8805 with its 9.2.4 (or 7.2.6) capacity or a Trinnov Altitude 16 with a full 9.1.6 capacity...

And for those interested here is a photo I took for the look and specs of the static Trinnov A16 shown at the recent (mid October) Festival du Son et de l'Image in Paris.

Hugo
 

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#35 ·
8805 has the same DAC as the current 8802A...so I’m wondering if Upgrade is serious or filler step. Of course I guess they will upgrade the partner pro the MM8077. Any news about that? I remain very unhappy with the speaker terminals on the 8077. They are rubbish inside and out. If I could replace them I would. Or replace the power amp I have considered too. But no alternatives spring readily to mind from ATC or elsewhere.

Hugo, the Trinnov is a major step up in # channels even at 16 vs 13.2.
 
#22 ·
Seems strange to me that they are maintaining so many of the legacy video connections on there. The picture makes it look like there are several component and composite video inputs, more than most anyone needs.
 
#23 · (Edited)
When I was in Japan October of 2016, I was shown the road map of the pending prepro. I asked the very same question. A key reason why they kept them was based off of their demographics of the typical Marantz buyer. Meaning, they are older. So according to their research, the legacy connections still made sense. It's not as if they want to spend more on the BOL. Rather, they don't want to lose buyers who still have these legacy connections. In the custom installer world where a lot of 88xx sales end up, legacy connections are infinitely more important than the researched oriented, earlier adopter AVS-type member.

For me, I don't personally need up-conversion on my prepro, phono, a tuner, more HDMI outs, composite, component, balanced inputs. Yet others like myself do care about the embedded HEOS (a VERY nice feature IMHO) as well as zone 2 and zone 3. But for me at least, those features are positively important. So mathematically speaking, their economy of scale increases when they don't exclude buyers which further drives down their over all costs. I assume that's how they work the math and how they make their decisions. If their only target market was an early adopter AVS type buyer, then I bet they would not have slashed those connections.

My other guess has to do with what exactly the 8805 really is. It's a tweaked out Denon platform not the other way around. So when Denon drops even more connections (that of course will happen one day), that's when Marantz will drop more connections too. Furthermore, I would not be surprised if it is actually less expensive to leave the back panel, "motherboard" etc the same as before versus re-engineering a new platform to "save" connections.

This last paragraph reminded me of the Lexicon MC-12 then the MC-8 and finally the released MC-4. While talking with Jeremy Front of Lexicon back then, he alluded to the fact that it was expensive to re-spin a "cheaper" Lex prepro. As in, when you amortize engineering costs and tooling over a lower volume product, the BOM and assembly savings are nonexistent. Putting it another way, their "cost" of re-spinning a cheaper prepro (including NRE's, etc) may not of added much to their bottom line.

To be clear, Marantz has made no references to the last two paragraphs. Rather this is my own theory.
 
#33 ·
Very interesting. I better start saving money! :)
 
#34 ·
IMHO - this pre/pro is the safest bet. Seems the others (while on paper read well) are full of bugs. I'm assuming based on history that Marantz will have the bugs ironed out in this machine.

I do hope they can implement HDMI 2.1 or at least be capable of pass-through.

I also hope the powers that be stop with the shenanigans changing specs. Make something that does 1000gb and be done with it.
 
#40 ·
Not publicly. Read something that they will likely show it in February.
 
#42 ·
#43 ·
No MQA so I will stay with my 8802A. Thanks for the link James
 
#50 ·
I didn't see any new features on the AV8805 (over the 8802a) that grabbed my attention. I supposed if I gave a fig about HEOS it might interest me but I'm mainly concerned about HT functionality. Did I miss something important or is this basically the 8802a with a new label?
 
#54 ·
Marantz AV8805 with 13.2 channel signal processing and Auro 3D presented (CES 2018)



Marantz is using the CES 2018 Las Vegas framework to showcase their new AV8805 high-end AV preamps. The AV8805 supports 13.2 channel signal processing and is equipped for any multi-channel audio format - even for Auro 3D. The AV8805 will be available from February 2018 at an MSRP of € 3,999.00 from authorized retailers.

Marantz wants to offer with its new multi-channel receiver uncompromising processing of audio and image data. The device is specially designed for use with high quality external speakers. At a price point of 3.999, - EUR, it would be a sin to attach a cheap speaker package for 300, - €. In the black chassis, AK4490 slumber 32-bit D / A converter units on all channels for high-quality audio processing. Also, 3D formats such as Dolby Atmos, DTS: X and even Auro 3D (via firmware update in spring 2018) benefited from the D / A converter units. The Marantz AV8805 allows a maximum of 7.1.6 or 9.1.4 sound setups or full 13.1 Auro 3D sound.

For high-end performance, there are 15.2 channel XLR preamp outputs that provide external powered speakers with the best sound quality. Before audio signals are routed through the XLR outputs, they are processed via Marantz HDAM modules and, for example, adapted to high noise levels.

4K / 60p videos with HDR & Dolby Vision
The video section of the AV8805 supports all current and relevant standards. HDCP 2.2 protected 4K signals can be played back via the High Dynamic Range (HDR10, HLG, Dolby Vision) HDMI inputs and outputs and up to 60 frames per second - all at full 4: 4: 4 color resolution in the BT.2020 color space. Since we are in the ultra-high-end range, an ISF video calibration may not be missing.

In total, the user has 8 HDMI inputs (one on the front) and three HDMI outputs. For conventional SD / HD video sources, a 4K upscaler is also available. With a future update, it is even possible to deliver audio signals via an HDMI connection via eARC (enhanced audio return channel) to the receiver.

Stream happily wirelessly
The AV preamplifier AV8805 must not only show its best side in films and series. Even the daily enjoyment of music should be best satisfied by the flagship amplifier. Of course, the user can play his music sources directly through the countless connection options of the AV8805, or you can use Bluetooth and AirPlay to wirelessly transfer music. Music streaming apps such as Spotify Connect, Amazon Music, Tidal, Deezer, etc. but also Internet radio are a must in this price range.

HDMI 2.1 via update?
Who puts an AV preamplifier for a mere 3.999, - EUR in the house, of course, does not want that the device in 1-2 years is already outdated. Marantz therefore promises an "upgradable product design" to integrate future technologies via optional hardware and / or software upgrades. Sounds almost as if you have already made provision for the HDMI 2.1 interface.

Price & Availability
"Black is beautiful" - at least in this price segment. The AV8805 is so far only in a black version. Whether a silver model is refilled is not known. Anyone who has saved his Christmas bonus from grandma, who already in February 2018 from 3.999, - EUR (EIA) strike!

[​IMG]
Highlights features of the AV8805:



13.2-channel AV preamplifier with 15.2-channel XLR / RCA pre-outs
Enables use with virtually any power amplifier - including Marantz MM8077 - or powered speakers for flexible systems and lavish custom home theater setups
Ensures low-noise and interference-free transmission to the power amplifiers
Newly developed Marantz HDAM technology on separate boards for all channels
Highest fidelity thanks to tonally optimized, discreetly structured Current Feedback pre-stage
Separate design ensures extremely high channel separation and excellent signal-to-noise ratio
13.2-channel signal processing with 2 x ADI Griffin DSPs (Dual Core)
Full 32-bit signal processing for all channels guarantees high-precision real-time decoding and accurate post-processing
Design: Outstanding model construction with extremely stable, copper-coated chassis without unwanted vibrations, an oversized toroidal transformer with a solid aluminum base and extra reinforced topcover
High end craftsmanship in your own home theater
Optimum shielding from disturbing influences
Support for Dolby Atmos (up to 7.1.6 or 9.1.4), DTS: X and Auro-3D (up to 13.1, Auro-3D via free firmware update in spring 2018)
Room-filling and immersive 3D sound for every configuration
Automatic switching of the preamp outputs depending on the 3D sound format
Support for DTS Virtual: X
Impressive 3D sound emulation with a classic 2.0, 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setup
Powerful 32-bit AK4490 DACs
High-quality digital converter units for the clearest and most precise sound in music and movies
Support for DSD (2.8 / 5.6MHz), FLAC, ALAC and WAV
High-resolution audio streaming for hi-fi enthusiasts, even with gapless playback
WLAN integrated with 2.4 GHz / 5 GHz dual band support
Improved network stability, especially at high WLAN density
Bluetooth, AirPlay
Quick coupling and playback of own playlists
Wireless HEOS multiroom music streaming
Comfortable control options, easy integration of other HEOS components (speakers, soundbars, subwoofer) and virtually unlimited access to online music sources
Internet Radio, Spotify Connect, Amazon Music, Tidal, Deezer, Juke !, Napster, Network Audio Streaming
Access many popular online music sources via the free HEOS app
4K / 60Hz Full Rate Pass Through, 4: 4: 4 Color Resolution, HDR, BT.2020, Dolby Vision and Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG)
Support of current video formats
ISF Video Calibration
Ready for professional calibration of home theater TVs and projectors
Analogous to HDMI conversion and upscaling of conventional SD / HD video sources to 4K at full frame rate
Full HD and Ultra HD video quality with existing DVDs and analog sources
8 HDMI inputs (one at the front) with full HDCP 2.2 support, 3 HDMI outputs
Advanced connectivity - ready to control a TV and projector in parallel
eARC (Enhanced Audio Return Channel), about future firmware update *
Enables object-based audio (Dolby Atmos / DTS: X) via an HDMI connection to the TV or TV apps
Audyssey MultEQ XT32, Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ
Individual and perfect room acoustics correction for every room
Audyssey LFC and SubEQ HT
LFC keeps powerful but unobtrusive bass in the room at night, Sub-EQ HT allows the perfect tuning of two subwoofers
Audyssey MultEQ Editor App (optional and available for a fee in the respective App Stores)
Adjust the acoustics and sound in the home theater like the pros
Advanced options for Customer Installation (CI) and Smart Homes
Support for two additional stereo listening zones, IR inputs / outputs, 12V switch output, RS232 control and Crestron
Connected compatibility
Color Coded Speaker Connectors, Setup Wizard, Marantz AVR Remote App, HEOS App
Fast and easy setup and operation
Prepared for voice control via Amazon Alexa (expected from early summer 2018 in Germany / Austria)
Basic functions of the AV preamplifier and media selection via voice control in German via Amazon Echo and Echo Dot

Upgradeable product design
Designing the model allows the integration of new technologies through future optional hardware and / or software upgrades

http://www.4kfilme.de/marantz-av8805-av-vorverstaerker-13-2-kanal/
 
#56 ·
#68 · (Edited)
Hi,

Owning the excellent 8802A, I initially had the same interrogations as what can be seen above.

Now beyond a probable HDMI 2.1 compatibility somewhere in the future (what for?), in my opinions the 8805 brings on the table 2 major evolutions for somebody having the utility of these, aka :

1- a full at the same time 13.2 channels processing capability, where the 8802/8802A "only" had a 11.2 capacity,
2- the 8805 has the capacity to use the "new" Audyssey app

bullxxit, would say some people here... but...

... I personally own a 9.2.6 physical installation and have made several comparisons between 7.x.4, 9.x.4 and 9.x.6 configurations using the exceptional Trinnov Altitude 32 (see links above) and in all cases, the 9.x.x configuration (aka LCR+Wides) always gave an added impression of immersion, singularly in a projection context with a 2.35 format screen,

so the processing capacity of 13.2 channels including Wides, of this 8805 generation of processors becomes a "must have" for all people using 9.x.x configurations, even though I admit, these types of installations aren't common.

Now concerning the Audyssey app, as a huge fan and early user of Audyssey Pro, some time ago I had the opportunity to test the Marantz 7703 with the Audyssey app in our own installation (processed in 7.2.4) and my opinion is that this little app is simply an APP in reality...

How come? Well beyond the inconvenience of just having to use the "simple" Audyssey mic and not the calibrated one used in the Audyssey Pro kit, this Audyssey app gives the possibility to choose the upper limit of the MultEQ XT32 correction and this makes all the difference...

... as one has the possibility to use MultEQ XT32 only bellow or slightly above the Schroeder frequency of the room, meaning use XT32 only in the resonant context and not in the reflected one.

An exceptional capacity for all persons interested in acoustic fine tweakings. ;)

So am I going to switch our 8802A for a 8805? Probably... :)

Hugo
 
#70 ·
Agreed the app and possibly going for wides one day do have my interest as well.

To all the 8802A owners saying they won't upgrade to the 8805 - aren't you at least a little bit curious about what kind of audio improvements Marantz may have made in the 8805? I (still!) own the 8801, and from what I have read the 8802 was a substantial improvement over the 8801. Is it unreasonable to suggest the 8805 may be a big jump as well?
Ahh! I'm waiting for the same details as far as the audio tweaking the Marantz team have come up with. I was more than satisfied with the 2/ch performance of the 8802A and if the 8805 is able to squeeze out more then its a win win, it's a good starting point they kept that incredible AKM dac but alas what eles have they done!;)
 
#69 ·
To all the 8802A owners saying they won't upgrade to the 8805 - aren't you at least a little bit curious about what kind of audio improvements Marantz may have made in the 8805? I (still!) own the 8801, and from what I have read the 8802 was a substantial improvement over the 8801. Is it unreasonable to suggest the 8805 may be a big jump as well?
 
#71 ·
Don't believe everything you read about the AV8801 vs. the AV8802. The AV8801 is a fine unit, that aside...

Looking at some changes, or a lack of changes, between the AV8802a and AV8805, and the effects they may have:

Volume Control: The AV8802a was likely the last higher level Marantz unit that still had the Renesas eight-channel selector/volume control. No datasheet is/was available for this unit. This has been replaced in all the higher level Denon/Marantz units with an eight-channel volume control from New Japan Radio Co. (JRC). This may seem like a nit, but all of the audio channels for the main zone goes through the volume control. The performance of this control, and the opamps that process the output of the DAC chip, are very key to setting the performance limits of the top Marantz units. This new volume control appears to have good performance so this is likely a measureable improvement.

Opamps: Likely these are JRC units as used in most Marantz gear, and are unchanged.

DAC: Unchanged. AKM makes at least two DAC's with better specifications, but use of these better DAC's as direct substitutions would likely just add cost without improvements in actual performance. The circuitry that is used when the DAC's are rated by AKM would be very expensive to implement in a multi-channel AVR/AVP consumer unit.

HDAM's: The HDAM units are increased by two, but appear to still be the same HDAM's.

12V AC Trigger: Denon/Marantz have significantly upgraded the trigger circuit. A much more rugged MOSFET is now used for the output vs. a bipolar transistor. This doesn't affect sound quality of course, but there have been reports of issues with the older trigger.

eARC: The AV8805 appears to have the new Lattice Semiconductor eARC chip, the SiI9437, as do the other Denon/Marantz units that support eARC. The units are awaiting a firmware upgrade to activate eARC.

Linear Power Supply: The toroidal transformer and capacitors appear to be the same size. There isn't much reason to change the design.

DSP Chips: The unit appears to use two of the more powerful generation five Analog Devices DSP units. These are used for digital audio processing. Some amount of programing is required to use these new chips and they are a positive development for the future. Likely the power of the new chips was required for the added channels. With more processing power available it may be that Audyssey and other software features can be improved in the future, or new features provided.

Small improvements: There are a lot of small changes/additions in capacitors and resistors from the AV7703 pre-pro to the AV7704 that should have a positive effect on distortion, and especially noise performance between the units. No doubt many of the same types of improvements have been made between the AV8802a and the AV8805. These are highly engineered units where tradeoffs between cost and overall performance appear to be carefully considered - engineering. They are not cost-is-no-object units.

Wires: There are a lot of wires (not circuit board traces) that carry signals, and power, in these units. This has not changed. Wires can also be considered antennas; they radiate and receive signals. Conceptually it would be nice if some or all of the wires were replaced by appropriately designed ribbon cables or circuit board traces. This would add cost. No one here seems to be complaining that these units don't cost enough. The vertical circuit boards in these units that carry signals from one horizontal circuit board are an example of using circuit board traces instead of wires. Perhaps the wires are one of those engineering decisions where it wouldn't make much difference in the actual performance of these units.

Please add to this list as I will as/if I think of more items.
 
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