[NeedingInfo]

This is question for SR9600 owners, or owners of Marantz receivers that have similar features.


The SR9600 (and a few other Marantz receivers) is advertised as being able to bi-amp on its own, by using a switch in the back to convert the rear surrounds to bi-amp outputs for the "A" speakers. The manual's wiring diagram specifies that when using this config, the "C" outputs are to be directed to the bass\\low frequency wiring posts, and the "A" to the tweeter\\high frequency posts.


There is an obvious question here: is Marantz suggesting that when using this config the receiver is acting as an "active" crossover? If so, it sounds amazing.


Not sure who has experience with this... Anyone?

 

[whoaru99]



Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedingInfo /forum/post/14230969


There is an obvious question here: is Marantz suggesting that when using this config the receiver is acting as an "active" crossover? If so, it sounds amazing.


Not sure who has experience with this... Anyone?

Generally there is not an active crossover when this is done, afaik.


How would they ever know what would be the most correct x-over setting for any given speaker - unless they provided adjustments?

 

[NeedingInfo]

I spoke to Marantz today and it they confirm that it is indeed an "active" crossover. Suggested that the frequency is configured via the OSD. I have not tried this but I did ask twice to be sure.


Since doing so disables the rear surrounds, I asked if the system would still decode the rear surrounds and provide output to the pre-amp output. I was told it does not - that switching to bi-amp also has the effect of making the preprocessor 5.1.


Both answers sound a bit dubious but unless anyone actively checks this out (no pun intended), this is all for now...

 

[sivadselim]



Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedingInfo /forum/post/14235504


I spoke to Marantz today and it they confirm that it is indeed an "active" crossover. Suggested that the frequency is configured via the OSD. I have not tried this but I did ask twice to be sure.

I would really be surprised if this setup provides for an active crossover. With most receivers that allow passive biamping with the rear surround channels, there is simply a duplicate full-range front channel signal sent to and amplified by the rear surround amps. An active crossover built into the receiver would be quite involved and would require much more than simple high and low pass filter settings. Not to mention that the speakers' own passive crossovers would have to be completely bypassed for such a setup to even approach being workable.


Now, the digital crossover applied by a receiver to the subwoofer and SMALL speaker channels can be considered to be sort of an active crossover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedingInfo /forum/post/14235504


Since doing so disables the rear surrounds, I asked if the system would still decode the rear surrounds and provide output to the pre-amp output. I was told it does not - that switching to bi-amp also has the effect of making the preprocessor 5.1.

You can only passively biamp using the rear surround amp channels of a 7 channel amplifier if you have a 5 channel speaker setup. And most (if not all) receivers apply identical settings to their pre-outs as those which are applied to the speaker-level outputs.



Do you have a link to your receiver? I can't find it on the Marantz site.

 

[whoaru99]

I did a cursory review of the SR9600 manual and didn't see any settings for what would lead me to believe there is an active crossover for the biamp configuration. Coulda missed it though...

 

[NeedingInfo]

The manual can be found here:

http://us.marantz.com/DFU_SR9600_Final_Eng.pdf


Take a good look at the lower right of page 27 of the manual (page 29 of the PDF). It specifies that the lows must be fed from "C," and highs from "A." When I saw this, 3 reasons came to mind:


1) Active crossover of some type

2) Perhaps "C" has more power available for some reason? (Perhaps because it is dedicated?)

3) No reason whatsoever - which is not impossible.


Again, Marantz tech support in NJ answered "yes" when I asked if an active crossover was in place, versus passive bi-amplification using external amps. They may have wanted to get me off the phone, though

 

[kouack]

Yes but like whoaru99 said how you do adjust the low freq let say to 200 hz or 300 hz max on your low freq and then start at 300 hz for mid-hi freq use?

 

[whoaru99]

The speaker terminals on my Panasonic XR-55 receiver are labeled HF and LF for bi-amp mode, similarly to your Marantz.


Afaik, the Panasonic receiver sends full range signals to both the HF and LF terminals, However, in the bi-amp mode settings, you can change the balance between HF and LF, and also can alter the phase relationship of HF to LF for time alignment of the drivers. Also, I believe in the bi-amp mode, the receiver assigns two amplifers to each LF output and one amp to each HF output. This is unique to the XR receivers afaik.


That's not to imply the Pansonic is better, because it's certainly less feature rich than the Marantz. It only serves to illustrate why the speaker terminals in the case of XR-55 are labeled HF and LF.


None of that applies directly to the Marantz, but again, I didn't see anything in the manual about bi-amp settings besides essentially "On/Off".


It is entirely possible the terminals on the Marantz are labled high and low merely to prevent questions by putting the labels there. If it really is of interest, you could reverse the high and low cables at one end and that should create an extremely noticeable change in the sound. Bass should become quite low in output when that signal is routed to the tweeter, but then filtered out by the speaker's built-in high pass filter. Likewise, highs should become extremely dull as they are routed to the woofer and filtered by the built in low-pass filter. The midrange may or may not change much depending on crossover points, etc. No damage will result to the speakers since the built-in crossover prevents damaging frequencies from getting to the woofer/tweeter.


EDIT: Most of the last paragraph is regarding a test to see if the signals fed in biamp mode are full range or HF/LF bandwidth limited. I assumed that would be clear, but since it's a bit rambling, it may not be.

 

[sivadselim]



Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedingInfo /forum/post/14242823


3) No reason whatsoever - which is not impossible.

In looking at the manual I can see no real reason except, as whoaru99 said, to prevent any confusion on the part of the user. If they didn't indicate a specific connection scheme, then the user may be left wondering.


There is no indication at all in the manual that the receiver is capable of active biamping. Additionally, all the biamp discussion on Page 27 indicates that they expect you to use the speakers' own crossovers, which indicates a passive biamp.


Also, Page 9 of the manual says:

But on Page 27 they then go on to do an extremely poor job of explaining that the Speaker C switch should be set to ON if these terminals are used to connect an extra pair of multi-room speakers. In fact, the diagram actually indicates that it should be set to OFF if these terminals are used for another pair of multi-room speakers. That can't be correct. If set to OFF, these terminals receive the surround back info.


But that these terminals CAN be used for a pair of multi-room speakers is yet another indication that the receiver sends a full-range signal that is identical to that which is sent to the front channels when the Speaker C switch is set to ON and, therefore, is only capable of passively biamping.


As I said, accomplishing a working active biamp with a receiver would not be a feature that would be at all trivial to implement.


If you find the connection scheme questionable, just do what the manual indicates.