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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It has been well over a year since I’ve been able to get back to the original Marquee Maintenance and Upgrade thread that’s linked here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3&pagenumber=1


We decided to start a new thread for this, but this time we’ll start with an area, section or board in the projector, and we’ll try to summarize each topic of discussion with a goal of providing a point of agreed or proven solutions. This is an attempt to try and/or eliminate the wrong part or solution from being used during searching through the thread, and to make access much easier. As is, it’s not easy to find the best workable (and safe) solution of what has been discussed in the thread.


So if we look at each board or section of the projector one at a time, we should also be able to go back over some of what was discussed in the first thread, and while doing that, make the necessary changes, upgrades or latest findings to what was discussed then.


Before we start, let me say that the Marquee is the longest living (first date made to present) CRT projector manufactured. It has been in consistent production for over 10 years. During that long period of manufacturing, the basic structure of the main model has experienced some changes, but never any large changes. The Marquee was originally sold by Electrohome in Canada. Electrohome was later purchased by Christie Digital, who later sold the Marquee series of their CRT projectors to VDC in Florida.


With any high quality and enduring electronic device, there has and will always be some technical and maintenance changes mentioned to make the product better, or to help to maintain that same level of performance. Since I can remember, all manufacturers of high end gear provided tech data on their products to correct previously unseen flaws and to make their products perform better. Likewise, there have been a many individual who has also found fixes and cures, and in most cases they have even helped the manufacturer with their support data. There’s a ton of very knowledgeable individuals on this forum. Hopefully, their participation will help us keep a true survivor at its best.
 

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Mike, I'd like to thank you for your dedication to the Marquee and for all the extra work you put into it and for all the info share with us here on the AVS forum. I'd also like to thank the many other professionals and hobbyists who help out. Without you all, I and others like me might be in digital land right now.


Somwhere along this thread, some topics I'd like to discuss are:


1) Longevity of the wiring. My ten year old 9000 (refurbed in '96) has 40k hours on the chassis and after cleaning the soot, etc... I see that it is still in great condition. No brittle wires, no rust, no breaking parts, no broken clips, nada. The only real wear I see is in screw heads where people have tried to remove a screw with the wrong size screwdriver. It amazes me that the chassis is in such great shape. But how long can it last? What will eventually fall apart first? I enjoy working on my cars and motorcycles, and the electrical system in these tend to go brittle and fall apart. This is due to high-heat and exposure to the elements, but even the electronics media of a well-cared for Marquee must eventually die?


2. Convergence drift. I realize that a well calibrated Marquee will not suffer convergence drift as often as that of a poorly setup Marquee, but the typical hobbiest/videophile does not spend the few hundred (or more) for a proper calibration, nor does he/she know how to get the magnetics setup 100%. We do the best we can, and suffer with drift. I understand that the convergence module is overworked when magnetics are not properly setup and this is what causes drift. Well, how can we beef up this convergence module to not overheat as easily? There is plenty of room to add more heatsinks. Mike's "Marquee Maintenence, the Original Thread" discussed a few electrical mods as well. What else can we do? Is it really overheating that allows for drift? Because surely this can be overcome somehow.


3. Video interference. There are so many unprotected wires running around in the Marquee chassis that surely, some of the wires must cause some sort of signal interference. Much like in home/car audio, where running power wires independantly of signal wires is mandatory. Many have discussed asphalt based wire loom for the HV lines to cut back on arcing. I myself ordered 10' worth just the other day. What other wires are suspect?
 

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Threads like this make me wish I had held out for a 9500 Ultra but the deal I got on this Ampro 4600HD was to good to pass up. I paid about a tenth of what a similar condition 9500 Ultra would cost and it was local so no shipping was involved. Some day I'll stumble onto a Marquee deal like this one, but for now, I'm happy.


Chip
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Chip that 4600HD is one serious performer. Ampro's were always top performers. However, they had terrible QC and support. It would go toe to toe with almost anything out there, but you'd also have make sure you have spare parts, and it would be a good idea to makes sure it's not left operating in a too warm of an environment (it hates heat).


CZ,

your topics are on my list, especially convergence drift. We plan to spend some real time on that one. On the Marquee the arching was only a problem for two boards, but nothing listed in the tech data to indicate it being a real problem, especially since they put the plastic sleeve on the high voltage lead coming from the HVPS. It could cause the lost of data on one board, and damge to the other. The lost of data was so rere, that it should not be an issue. And there's a fix for the board that it damage.


Back to your question on drifting. Drifting can be from one, or a combination of three things (setup, component aging, and a defective module). We'll cover all three of these with a few other when we get around to this topic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
OK, since one of the last things that I've mentioned that I'll cover in the is thread is the the focus on the Marquee, we'll look at what I found, get that out of the way and then move on.



It was a few months back when we had a gathering at Mark Haflich's that I noticed that had had a growth or what-yu-may-callit in in his green CRT. Since all three of these tubes were purchased brand new about three to four years ago, and they had absolutely no wear what-so-ever. It was hard to understand where or how this tuff got in there. I've experienced a similar growth in the tubes in the brand new projectors when we took them out of the box. And this growth was called stars. The tech's at Electrohome suggested to run the projector with full field to burn the stars out. This processed worked well in most cases, but if the gorht was too bad, or did not deminish, send the tubes back. Now, this groth that I noticed in Mark's green tube was new to me. I've seen something similar in the smaller Sony tubes, and my understanding was that it came from the tubes sealant. But have never seen anything like this on a Marquee.


We later sent to tube to VDC to have the fluid replaced. And we've since reinstalled the tube. What I noticed with the newly refluid green tube was a clearer LC fluid. It was clearer than the fluid in the red and blue, but not that much to make a big deal out of and send the red and blue tubes out to make equal. This was subtle, but noticeable.


With this experience in mind. I looked very closely into the 9500 here at the townhouse. And whaT I noticed was that the fluid in my 9500 was a little different than the fluid in the 9500 at Mark's house. The difference was not subtle. The fluid in my 9500 looks more like an oil, while the fluid in Mark's 9500 looks more like optical fluid, in that it looks more like water than oil. Plus the fluid in my 9500 has a very small and saturated substance in it. So, this is when I put on my Sherlock Tech hat and got out he magifying glaas. I may be wrong here but based on what I've seen from these two projectors, to include the Barco 909 and Sony 1292 coupling fluid. The fluid in my 9500 has either changed structure over time, or at the time of manufacture they used a different substance than what they were using when mark purchased his tubes new (and what is now present in his red and blue CRT's). The fluid that is in my 9500, is also different from what is in green tube that the fluid was changed in.


Here is the problem. the tubes in my 9500 are the originals. They are not rebuilds. My green CRT has wear, and the blue tube has wear. The red tube does not have wear. Now, the Green tube is more cloudier than the blue, while the red is the clearest.


I have no idea what is going on here, but for SURE, this optical fluid has an impact in the projectors finer focus. So much so, that it effects the image in my "scaled text" test pattern.



I say all this to say that, I'm sending the green tube out soon to have it rebuilt, and when I do, I'm going to request that they replace the fluid as well.
 

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Mike,


The fluid is always replaced on VDC rebuilts whether they are reassembled with new tubes, new glass rebuilt tubes, or re-used glass tubes. The bellows are replaced as well, but the C-element is re-used unless otherwise directed.


--Bill
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Over time, I've been taking down notes and checking the circuits for (both video and focus) a tighter focus. Putting the video chain aside, and putting the focus circuit on the table. This is what I noticed:


When measuring the voltage pulse that comes from the CLM (control module), I noticed a small distortion on that signal. At first I ignored it, and thought that it's not the only time that I've seen a cripled sine wave that was normal. Then I went to the focus module itself, and there is where I started to question those same little current limiting resistors (1 ohm) that are also in the vertical and convergence modules. The manual refers to them as fusable resistors. I still refer to them as mickey mouse resistors. By that I'm saying that I don't take them as serious resistors. My 9500 did not have these resistors in either the vertical deflection module or the convergence board (they were replaced by me). I know from experience with audio circuits that if those resistors are not heavy enough, the circuit would incure distortion. But in the past I have overlooked changing out these resistors in the focus circuit, because that main section of the focus circuit only puts current on the focus coils, and if the focus works, then it should not be an issue. Well, that's true, but I started to wonder what would happen if that pulse had noise on it. It's basically a sine wave that's driving the focus coils. So what would happen if there's noise on that sine wave. Is it possible that a certain level of changing (ramdom) noise could modulate that current pulse:confused: - If that's possible, could the modulation of that pulse cause the dot (or lines) to modulate or be larger???


Well, I did find a noise on that pulse. And the noise came from the CLM. So it was the CLM that was put on the extender card, and there were 8 caps replaced (one jumped). Four caps were changed for the focus circuit, but I also changed out another four because there were taking up real estate, and was doing nothing.


Once i was able to clean up the CLM, there was a difference in the focus. Not sure who much, but on my Marquee, once I put the CLM back into the projector, I had to go back into the service menu and readjust the focus. I also chnaged out components on the focus module, and did get a tighter and cleaner pulse. The focus improvement was minor or small, but it did make a difference.


Here are the changes that I made to the CLM:


Replaced C1, C2, C6, C113 and C7 were replaced with 470mfd 35vdc


C3, C43 and C12 (jumped) were replaced with 100mfd 50vdc


The caps were all electrolytics.


I'll post a picture on how I mounted these later. At that time, I'll list what I did to the focus module.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Now this is the strange one. On my latest set of neck boards, I've noticed a slight distortion when measuring the final stage to the CRT's. This was a real hair puller. The noise is more noticeable on the green, then blue and not present on the red. In fact if you look into the green tube, you'll notice a slight harringboning in the image. That noise comes from the HDM. And it effects the tightness of the image. More so on the green, therefore it effects the image as a whole.


We'll get back to this one later...
 

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Mike,


I just wanted to thank you for starting the Maintenance thread again. When the last one was going on I was just getting into CRT projectors and had my hands full just getting it setup. I hope to be able to contribute this time around if I can. I haven't played with the circuits in the Marquee much but I'm an RF engineer so I may be able to add something here or there.


On a totally different topic, did anyone end up making that gamma circuit that was discussed in the last maintenance thread? If not I can make gerbers for it in no time and get some made.


Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by bblue
Mike,


The fluid is always replaced on VDC rebuilts whether they are reassembled with new tubes, new glass rebuilt tubes, or re-used glass tubes. The bellows are replaced as well, but the C-element is re-used unless otherwise directed.


--Bill
I must say, I know very little about what they're doing at VDC. in the past I've not been pleased with their rebuilts until the last set that I changed out. There has been a lot of more indepth discussion on the rebuilts, but it has been kept off the boards (Terry, Tim, etc). The bebuilds has been a big issue for me. I had a very hard time finding any of them to be truly acceptable. I would change them out if I was asked, but would never recommend them without saying that they are not where they should be. So I've pretty much stayed away from the rebuilts and VDC, so much that I did not send my own tube for rebuilding.


However, recently I had reinstalled a set of VDC tubes (9500LC). And I was very pleased with the end results. The set actually looked like new tubes.


Hey Terry - FINALLY!!!!
 

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Mike


Great to see you back up and running with the Maintenance thread :cool:



I finally have time for Chris Collins "mysphyt" to come out and do a real calibration on this thing. Then I might later this winter as I get bored get around to doing all the fixes from the last thread and this one.... and then onto your boards!!!


Thanks again for sharing this knowledge
 

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Hi MP,I assume those part #s( on the CLM board) are only for the 9xxx, would you have the #s for the 8xxx.Is the CLM the control board, as its called in the 8xxx.
 

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Mike


I had advised Chad to specify 'new glass' with his order; only the castings and C element get re-used; and having new glass makes the difference, only $100 extra for new glass.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by WTS
Hi MP,I assume those part #s( on the CLM board) are only for the 9xxx, would you have the #s for the 8xxx.Is the CLM the control board, as its called in the 8xxx.
Those identification numbers are for the 50-2036-03P, which is the later version CLM (control module). There's a different board number for the earlier version 8000 and 9000's. They used 50-2006-02P, and it has different part identification numbers for these same caps (rails). They are C1, C2, C3, C32, C43 and C113. They should all be replaced using 470/35's.


There are some other neat changes that can be made as upgrades or mods to the CLM, but we'll get back to them later when the appropriate circuits is discussed.


----


Say Tim, So the new glass can make that big of a difference on the rebuilds? They performed just like new tubes, and they broke in just like new tubes. There was a huge difference from what I've been used to with the rebuilts. They (VDC) FINALLY got everything right on those rebuilds.
 

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From what I understand, the fluid was replaced on both my green and red tubes. The green was because of the growth and the red fluid was replaced when the red c element was replaced. MP and I both noticed a substantial improvement in the accuracy of the red colors with the installation of the red c element. I highly recommend getting a red c element installed.


Hew MP. I am glad my spare 9500LC has now become your 9500LC. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by mark haflich
From what I understand, the fluid was replaced on both my green and red tubes. The green was because of the growth and the red fluid was replaced when the red c element was replaced. MP and I both noticed a substantial improvement in the accuracy of the red colors with the installation of the red c element. I highly recommend getting a red c element installed.


Hew MP. I am glad my spare 9500LC has now become your 9500LC. :)
Yes, there was a substantial difference with the red filter. but I'm not sure it's something that I would recommend.


When doing this thread I thought about doing a disclaimer saying that the 9500 that I'll be refering to as "my" projector actually belongs to Mark Haflich, but I thought to not bother, because Mark will for sure mention that it's his, and that would eliminate the need for the disclaimer. Heck, I hate typing. So if it's OK with Mark, I'll continue to refer to the Marquee in question as "my" Marquee, and hopefully he'll not remind me thru-out the thread that it's actually his Marquee ;).


I've been out of my house for a year, and when we were living in the house, we could not use the HT room for two years prior to leaving the house, and because of that, one of my customers talked me out of the 9500 that I purchased from an insurance company. However, I do have the complete workings of a 9500 (tubes need rebuilding) in my shop, but why bother when there's no HT to use it in :(
 

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Mike, you're welcome to bring the family down and use our HT. Just make sure you leave it like you find it (or better.)
 

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The reds are much more accurate. It's fine with me. The red sox on the red sox are almost the actual color of the red sox. Game four at 8.25 EDST. Go Boston (I am from there and never fiqured I would live long enough to see them win the world serious).
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Larry Fine
Mike, you're welcome to bring the family down and use our HT. Just make sure you leave it like you find it (or better.)
Cool, I like this idea. I have to make a trip down to Virginia Beach within a week or two, so this would work out fine for me. But that's if we could use your Marquee as a patient for this thread. And I promise you, I'll make it much better than what it is now ;)


I have a Marquee 9500 to evaluate for electrical damage right on the bay in Virginia beach, so we could surely stop by and take you up on your kind offer.
 

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Good move, Larry ;)


I've had mp over a couple of times (and Mike, the invitation still stands in my new HT)... any time he touches a projector, magic happens.


I can only imagine it's a curse he's gotten used to... kinda like a doctor at a cocktail party... everybody keeps asking him about infections and symptoms looking for a freebie quick fix.


But I also wonder what's harder for Mike... being invited to a HT and being asked to mess with it. Or being invited to an HT and trying to be polite by not mentioning the glaring problems that he knows he can fix with a twist of his wrist.


Larry, if Mike's looking for a patient to use as a case study for this thread, I've still got that spare M8501 here that you can have (and he can tweak) in exchange for some help finishing our HT.
 
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