AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 93 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I spent a great deal of time at best buy tonight checking out speaker systems, and the new Sony HW30 projector.


I really like the sound of the Martin Logan EM-ESL and EM-C2 for the fronts.


For the surrounds, I couldn't really tell the difference between the Motion 2 and 4s, but would probably just get 4s since my room is bigger than their studio.


Subwoofer, the Dynamo 1000 sounded great, but again, smaller room.


The above would MSRP out around 4800, which just happened to be in my budget (was budgeting 4.5-5k).


Any suggestions for changes? I'm not hooked on the sub, and I did like the look and sound of the Groto i, but it was 500 bucks more... which I would do if it would increase sound quality...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,914 Posts
I would make an offer on the Grotto matching the price on the lesser sub. One of the Best Buys will take that deal since the ML/Best Buy marriage is already going sour.


They have enough margin that with the speakers you want, they'll knock some money off the sub.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thats a good idea, I've made a couple deals at best buy before for some money off, I should definitely do that.

Any advice on a receiver for it? The guy at best buy recommended a pioneer elite. I can't remember the model numbers but he recommended a 800 dollar or the 1500 dollar model. But I'm open to suggestions on the receiver.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,914 Posts
Anything but Pioneer/Elite...


I would stick(if you have to buy at BB) a Marantz or Denon(the 6005 is a ridiculous deal at the moment)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,858 Posts
I personally wouldn't use ML for movie watching. Electrostats just don't have the required dynamics to hit reference volumes without compressing. They're great for music though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
What would you use? I changed my mind on the sub and ordered an epic empire last night. So looking for the rest to add up to about 4k max. Suggestions?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,858 Posts
I would look at the CHT SHO 10:

http://www.chasehometheater.com/inde...art&Itemid=122


Compression driver horns have the efficiency and dynamics to be able to handle the big volume swings in movies without compressing or distorting. They're so efficient that they need little power to reach insane volumes. Some people say that horns are fatiguing but those are the cheap ones that aren't done well.


If you wanted to go whole hog you could look into Danley Sound Lab's Synergy Horns. Expensive? Yes. But they can easily go head to head with speakers costing many times what they cost. They're not the prettiest but they are absolutely incredible. You might get close to 4K for five speakers if you did the SH Micro's in the rear.

http://danleysoundlabs.com/synergy_horn.html


The Epik is a great sub, you won't be disappointed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,104 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 /forum/post/20807117


Anything but Pioneer/Elite...


I would stick(if you have to buy at BB) a Marantz or Denon(the 6005 is a ridiculous deal at the moment)

What's wrong with Pioneer? In late 2009/early 2010, I actually compared a $450 Denon receiver straight up against a cheaper $380 Pioneer VSX-919AH-K and ended up preferring the auto-calibration from Pioneer (MCACC) and it wasn't even a close call. It was Pioneer by a mile. Wider soundstage, cleaner sound, more audible sounds in the mix all while having a "meatier" fullness to the sound while the Denon's Audissey somehow managed to smoosh and conceal sounds in the mix while at the same time giving off an 'empty'/hollow effect to the sound. I was not impressed with Auddessey. I was however blown away by MCACC's calibration.


So, I'm not sure why anyone would knock on Pioneer but I will stick up for them and state plainly, I flat out liked Pioneer's auto-calibration better and it was so lopsided that I can't honestly believe anyone could be so deaf as to think Auddessey's auto-calibration is even 'good', let alone better than what I heard MCACC do.


I ended up buying the VSX-919AH-K and not even going with the "ELITE" model because I have a smallish condo living room and simply didn't need big amplifier power. I am extremely impressed with how incredibly LOW the noise is from this receiver's pre-amp section. I hear ZERO 'hiss' when cranking the volume and the only noise floor I hear is from the source recordings. This inexpensive receiver FAR exceeded my expectations and would recommend it even for a system intended for high fidelity music playback.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
For the CHT, are you suggesting getting those monitors for just the surrounds? Or everything?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
923 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool /forum/post/20807979


I personally wouldn't use ML for movie watching. Electrostats just don't have the required dynamics to hit reference volumes without compressing. They're great for music though.

Do you have experience with that? I have ML's and they can his 85dB all day long and are quite dynamic with movies, probably not the same as horns (but hey what is?).


One advantage with ESL's is they only lose 3dB of output per doubling of distance instead of 6dB like conventional speakers (though I believe this applies to Line Source speakers as well).
 
  • Like
Reactions: scottvamp

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by |Tch0rT| /forum/post/20811437


Do you have experience with that? I have ML's and they can his 85dB all day long and are quite dynamic with movies, probably not the same as horns (but hey what is?).


One advantage with ESL's is they only lose 3dB of output per doubling of distance instead of 6dB like conventional speakers (though I believe this applies to Line Source speakers as well).

So you have the EM-ESL and EM-C2 up front, and what did you use for rears? I did like the sound of them in the best buy studio, so I'm not completely convinced not to use them. I do want to go back and try out all their speaker options again and listen for longer.


Any other speakers to try?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,723 Posts
The EM ESL & C2 is a FANTASTIC combo for HT performance and equally FANTASTIC in the music department. The ESL have been modified/designed specifically for HT so you won't be disappointed 6 mos down the road.


The EM C2 is just one of the best centers I have heard and can handle about anything you can throw at it.


As for a Rx you want to stick with the beginning of the upper tier as a minimum of whatever brand you choose. I chose Denon to power my ML system and just can't believe the quality. Watching/listening to Chicago, Earth, Wind and Fire as I type this and the sound is nothing short of incredible.


As for the rears, if you can afford it, got for the Motion 10. More comes out of the rears than most people give them credit for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I have to wall mount my rears because of how the room is, which is why I was picking the motion 4s. I was hoping to not have crazy expensive for the 4 surrounds, I guess I can always get motion 4s and upgrade them later to the ElectroMotion FX2... it would be 1600 bucks more to get them right off the bat...


By bottom of the top end, do you mean something more like The Denon AVR-3312CI or higher, or a yamaha a2000/3000, marantz SR6005 or higher?


Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,858 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by |Tch0rT| /forum/post/20811437


Do you have experience with that? I have ML's and they can his 85dB all day long and are quite dynamic with movies, probably not the same as horns (but hey what is?).


One advantage with ESL's is they only lose 3dB of output per doubling of distance instead of 6dB like conventional speakers (though I believe this applies to Line Source speakers as well).

85 dB isn't anywhere close to reference levels. They can sound nice at the levels you're listening to them at. Just don't expect them to hit 105 db peaks without some sort of compression and distortion, they just aren't capable. Plus, they are seriously power hungry. It takes a lot of power to get them going. I'm not sure if I believe their specs of 91 dB sensitivity. I'm not knocking them, they just aren't good candidates for HT IMHO, regardless of whether ML says they are optimized for HT. The design of the speaker doesn't lend itself to performing well in that arena. They are beautiful speakers, I'll give them that.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,723 Posts
Bottom of top end, yes, you understand. I seriously do not care for the motion 4 at ALL. You would be better off (in my opinion) to get a PAIR of ML Encore TF from Audio Advisor (or Amazon) for just under $400 for the pair shipped. And you can wall hang them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,858 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roshy /forum/post/20811221


For the CHT, are you suggesting getting those monitors for just the surrounds? Or everything?

The whole shebang. CrocDoc had the whole setup and he loves it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
923 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roshy /forum/post/20811524


So you have the EM-ESL and EM-C2 up front, and what did you use for rears? I did like the sound of them in the best buy studio, so I'm not completely convinced not to use them. I do want to go back and try out all their speaker options again and listen for longer.

I have the ElectroMotion ESL's for my L and R mains, Encore TF for the center (I want to upgrade to one of their ESL centers at some point), and Source for the rears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool /forum/post/20811634


85 dB isn't anywhere close to reference levels. They can sound nice at the levels you're listening to them at. Just don't expect them to hit 105 db peaks without some sort of compression and distortion, they just aren't capable. Plus, they are seriously power hungry. It takes a lot of power to get them going. I'm not sure if I believe their specs of 91 dB sensitivity. I'm not knocking them, they just aren't good candidates for HT IMHO, regardless of whether ML says they are optimized for HT. The design of the speaker doesn't lend itself to performing well in that arena. They are beautiful speakers, I'll give them that.

I thought reference was louder than 85dB but when I googled it that's what came up.
eh oh well. I'd venture though that most people can't take 105dB peaks. My threshold these days starts to get uncomfortable at 85dB for mids and highs. If the goal is 105dB+ peaks then yeah the OP should be looking at horns and wave guides like the CHT speakers. I looked at those before buying ML but I wouldn't be able to integrate the center well with my TV.


I am quite satisfied with my ML speakers for HT other than I want a better center (I'm not saying it's bad but I want the ESL panel).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
421 Posts
Just wanted to post my experience as a ML HT system user.


I have Aerius i and Cinema speakers up front using Klipsch SS1 for surrounds, Yam. 667 as pre/pro, Adcom GFA 7000 5 channel amp (using only 3 channels for the stats). I would NOT power the stats with an AVR (maybe flagship model). With my Adcom compression in movies sets in at around -7 to -10 (the cinema is the limiting factor here), music, 2 channel only, is better and can go to 0 depending on the recording. My listening position is 12' from speakers, my room is 2500^3' open to another 1300^3'. If your room is smaller and/or you sit closer, and you listen at less than reference levels ML stats can be a fine choice, also be aware they need to be at out least 2' from the wall behind them (more is better) and 2'(again more is better but not as critical) from side walls to sound their best. I suggest you go to http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/ and read about set up and other info you may want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
That may have swayed me away from them. I don't have enough room to put them 2' from back and side walls. Maybe 6" from each.



If I went with the CHT ones. What kind of receiver would I need? Low end of upper tier? Like $1000-1500 receiver?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,723 Posts
No no no...The EM ESL are not to the same requirements as the older/larger Aerius i's are. As stated they have been redesigned with the knowledge most just don't have those space requirements.
 
1 - 20 of 93 Posts
Top