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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To the dealers and owners of ML, I'm looking to upgrade my amp, presently a Sherbourn 5/1500 now set for 3 channels. Although I have really enjoyed this amp, with the new Odysseys arriving this week I feel like they deserve a high quality amp. I do have a budget ($3000 or so) and would consider used or dealer demos.


I would prefer a warmwer vs. brighter amp, possibly Classe'? Would love your opinions.


Also arriving will be a brand new factory sealed ML "Theater" center ch. I may have to sell? My entertainment unit has a wide deep drawer that presently holds my current center. I thought the Theater would also fit inside. It is 1" too wide. The wife is not too keen on me hanging the Theater onto the drawer front exposing it! The Cinema would neatly fit inside. I can make a "great deal" on the new Theater, and again it has not even been delivered yet. It is new not B stock and leaves ML in Kansas today!


Dave
 

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I have demoed them many times at Soundworks and NOTHING came close to the BAT VK-500 Amp.

:)


Test tracks were:

Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here, I used the end of Shine on You Crazy Diamond.

Rasputina - Sign of the Zodiac

Beethoven - Symphony Nr. 3 Eroica. Marcia Funebre. The Klemperer, of course.
 

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Krell (of course), Theta (if you can afford), and I tested out the B&K amp, and it sounded just as good I thought.
 

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First off,


congratulations I know that you have had quite the journey... leading upto your speaker decision! are you looking for 3 channels of amplification or less.


A used Sunfire signature fits into your price range and should give you lots of ummphhh or perhaps you can find some one blowing out an aragon 8008x3 or a used EAD PM2000...



Miles
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Guys many many thanks. Not having heard any of the recommendations, except the Sunfire, are the others "warm" as well inc. Krell? I thought Krell could be a bit bright?


Miles "yes" I'm looking for three channels, but two could work. I have an unused channel from my Outlaw 750 (drives the sides/rears) that could be used for the center. A new 2 ch. could then be used for the mains unless it's "taboo" to use a different amp for the center vs the mains?


What do you guys think of a Bryston 4BST?


Dave
 

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Aragon, Proceed and if you have the bucks Mark Levinson. I have used all three with my Martin Logans (Quest and CLS) and all have worked better than a number of other amps. I haven't tried Sunfire or Bat but I know of a few people that have the Signature hooked up to Requests and they rave about the combination.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by mmcdlc


What do you guys think of a Bryston 4BST?
Dave,


While I haven't heard Brystons myself, I've read that they can be a bit on the bright side. I have heard the Aragon 8008 and thought that they produced a very full, warm sound. I have seen a the Aragons on sale on Audiogon and eBay. You might be able to pick up a pair of top of the line Aragon Palladium II monoblocks which would be in your price range. Good luck!
 

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IMO, Krell is not typically thought of as "warm". I would suggest looking at pro amps. Crown's Studio Reference & K series or Cinepro's various offerings would be a good place to start (I preferred them vs. Parasound and Rotel's amps). You should be able to rent the Crown amps (for demo) from most pro music stores. I would classify both amps as neutral and very clean (extremely low noise floors).
 

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Oh yes. Whatever you get will need to be very robust in handling low impedances. Even the newer ML speakers, which are nominally 4 ohms, can go down to 2 ohms at certain frequencies. One rule of thumb is that power should double as impedance halves. All of the amps I listed abover will (I don't know about the newer Aragon's built since Klipsch acquired Mondial).


Also you don't want to bridge any amps hooked up to ML speakers.


rw
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Guys many thanks - i am unfamiliar with Aragon, other than to see it is well regarded everywhere I find people mentioning it on the web. Ideally I'd like to find another 3 ch amp, keeping the mains and center together.


What do you all think of Classe' in regards to some of your suggestions?


Dave
 

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Classe Omega series amps are good, but they are pretty high in price.


But their CA amps are non-differential and uses those lowly op-amps in the driver stage.


Maybe get a tube amp, rip out the output transformer from it and the step up transformer in the ML, and drive the panels direct. Of course, you will have to find a SS amp to drive that incoherent woofer. :D
 

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I use a Sunfire Signature with my Ascents, Cinema, Script combo and love the results. It definately delivers the warm sound you are looking for. If you only need three channels, one option is to buy the 5 channel Sunfire and bi-amp your left and right speakers and use the remaining amp channel for the center. Others on the board have done this and rave about the results. Doing so should allow you to buy the base Sunfire instead of the Signature and save some $.
 

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You should definitely give the Brystons a listen.


I use a Bryston 4B (240w/chan) to drive a pair of Odyssey mains, and a Bryston 5BST (120w/chan) to drive a pair of SL3 rears and a Cinema center.


Al least to my ears, the Bryston is a perfect match for these speakers. I've had the 4B for 6 years (since I acquired the SL3's) and I have yet to find amps in this price range that sound better with ML speakers.


happy hunting!


Joe m
 

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Very happy with my Theta Intrepid for ML Aeons front & SCript rears. Tried the Cinema front speaker and was very disappointed ended up keeping my B&W LRC3 for centre. Theatre a much different beast. (Enlarge the cabinet or change wife)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Guys there is a number of Aragon 8008's over on Audiogon? They are very affordable.


Jakermc: I had thought of getting a 5 ch and biamping just as you said.


But if i ended up getting a quality 2 ch for the mains (Levinson, Pass etc), how does everyone feel about driving the center with the remaining unused ch that now drives my sides/rears (Outlaw 750)?



Iwang, the ML's certainly weren't bought for the woofer section, i agree! But I do feel they are getting better in that regard. The Decent sub is a very fine piece. For now I'l be using my existing Velo HGS 18 and 15.


I have some overseas connections, is there a very high quality ss japanese amp to consider? How about Marantz monoblocks, yrs ago they were considered very good.


Guys per my original thread above, for HT, would the smaller ML center, the CINEMA, do justice with the Odysseys? I have four offers from Audiogon's classifieds to sell the THEATER due to it not fitting inside the drawer of my entertainment unit as mentioned above. Of course the wife is happy not to view out in the open the THEATER. IF I sell it I will always wonder how much better my HT experience would have been with it. I know the CINEMA is good and if I knew the strength of the THEATER was that it had more lower end only, having the two big Velos, I would n't worry using the CINEMA. Do I need to "attempt" to put my foot down, and mount the THEATER to the front of the drawerfront? Today is my best chance to win - it's my birthday so she can't ***** too much, at least TODAY!


Dave
 

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Dave, if you are concerned about enough juice and stability at low impedencies, you could go all out and look at the Aragon Palladium monoblocks. I just bought three from ubid for my front set of speakers. These monsters are about 65lbs each, are rated at 600W into 4 ohms and 1KW into 2 ohms. You might need to upgrade your electrical system to support them if you like your music loud though.


From comments by a couple of Aragon engineers it sounds like the only difference between the palladium II's that are on ubid (although only labeled as palladiums on the site) and the new palladium 1K's that just started shipping from Klipsch is the fascia with the new blue light -- the electronics remain the same. The new Palladium 1K's retail for $6K/pair so the ubid price is an excellent deal.


Right now, as I write this, there are 3 pair up for auction that closes today and so far only one pair has been bid on. The going price at ubid is roughly $2300 for a pair including shipping - watch the shipping charge, not only do they have their regular gouging on shipping, but this time they are mistakenly doubling the shipping weight so instead of roughly 150lbs of shipping for a pairl, they try to charge for 300lbs of shipping. A call to customer service after it is delivered with the true shipping weight printed on the box should clear it up.
 

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I'm sure alot of Aragon owners have a gripe with Klipsch, putting out their products (even if it is a disco'd model) out on ubid and selling it for dirt cheap, dragging down the whole used market price for these units. Now when anybody try to sell their Aragons, they could fetch nowhere near what they could have gotten before Klipsch decided to flood the market with their stuff.
 

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Jah-Wren Ryel, I think you must be talking about Palladium II. Is it good?


In fact I bid the last pair of those 3 pairs yesterday and hopefully will get them next week. If I am correct, they should be 75lb each, Palladium I is about 65lb each.


And thanks for shipping weight information, that would save me $150, my wife would be happy to hear that.
 

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Iwang, I won't care used price of Aragon. For $2300 a pair of new Palladium II which is even lower than used price, it's like a dream for me. But now it become true, I can use my budget for a mid-fi 200wpc amp to enjoy these monsters. No complain at all and will keep it for years.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by mmcdlc


Guys per my original thread above, for HT, would the smaller ML center, the CINEMA, do justice with the Odysseys? I have four offers from Audiogon's classifieds to sell the THEATER due to it not fitting inside the drawer of my entertainment unit as mentioned above. Of course the wife is happy not to view out in the open the THEATER. IF I sell it I will always wonder how much better my HT experience would have been with it. I know the CINEMA is good and if I knew the strength of the THEATER was that it had more lower end only, having the two big Velos, I would n't worry using the CINEMA. Do I need to "attempt" to put my foot down, and mount the THEATER to the front of the drawerfront? Today is my best chance to win - it's my birthday so she can't ***** too much, at least TODAY!


Dave
The answer is probably more dependent on your room size than anything else. I have Ascents and Cinema setup in a room that is roughly 16x30 with a low ceiling and I am very happy with the results. I have never felt that the Cinema is lacking in any way. Like you, I'm not concerned about performance below 80hz since I am using a sub. I understand the Theater is a noticeable step up in large rooms, but having not heard one in my room, I do not feel anything is missing with the Cinema.
 
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