[Magius]

I have a simple question regarding the MCE remote control. Is it "necessary" to have one for MCE to function properly? I read somewhere that part of the MCE setup is pressing remote control buttons to configure the receiver or something? Could you somehow bypass this without the remote control?


I really don't want to spend $40 on the remote if I don't have to. I'm buying an IR keyboard and have a nice learning remote for my Yamaha RXV2400 that already controls my TV, DVD, Receiver, etc. I'd be fine with the media buttons on the keyboard as long as MCE won't get cranky. It just seems silly to buy a $40 remote so that I can teach my learning remote the commands and toss the real thing in a closet......


Thanks in advance to anyone who has a definitive answer.

 

[epshih]

Don't know if I can give you a "definitive answer" but I can try.


First off, I'm not an MCE expert. I just installed the product for the first time this morning, but I do know for a fact that MCE can be navigated with a keyboard. It's not nearly as easy to use when navigating by keyboard vs. the remote, but it can be done. If you want to use your own remote, you're probably going to have to buy Girder because MCE probably won't talk to your transciever which means you'll need to buy a transciever like the like a USB-UIRT. Those 2 items alone are probably going to cost you MORE than the MCE remote, and then you gotta go through the hassle of setup MCE Girder plugin.


If it were me, I'd just buy the remote. It's worth it just for the user experience. I personally have a great learning remote too, an MX-500, but I don't think I'll be teaching it MCE commands. The MX500 is good. I use it with SageTV, Tivo, my Yamaha receiver, CRT, STB, and two DVD players, but there are a lot of special keys on this MCE remote with a particular placement that makes mimicking on the MX500 difficult. For example... the Green button, the "i" button, PC power button, Recorded TV, Live TV, Guide, DVD menu, BACK button (not to be confused with REW and Skip Back buttons), OK button, ENTER button, etc... I could program all these buttons into my MX500 with labels b/c it has an LCD screen, but the button layout would be awkward to use compared to the MCE remote. Anyways, that's my .02

 

[Magius]

If I understood you correctly you're saying that MCE won't talk to my infrared keyboard's transceiver? It's just a PS/2 keyboard to MCE, so I'm having trouble figuring out how it couldn't work... That would really stink because the whole reason I'm buying the keyboard is to program its codes into my remote and navigate the computer.


Anyway after reading what you said about the awkward button placement you're probably right. It was bad enough planning out how to program the keyboard's media buttons into the remote; trying to copy the MCE remote would be a PITA. I guess having one dedicated remote for the PC and one for everything else isn't too bad, and maybe I could duplicate "some" functionality so I only have to drag out the MCE remote for special tasks...


Thanks for the tip!

 

[epshih]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't too clear. No, I was not saying your infrared keyboard's transceiver wouldn't work with XP MCE... that is unless you don't have XP drivers for your keyboard's transceiver. In fact, I was saying you COULD use your wireless keyboard (or any keyboard) to control MCE... it just wouldn't be elegant.


What I was tring to saying is I don't believe MCE has built-in drivers for any other REMOTE CONTROL transceiver besides the OEM Microsoft USB transceiver that comes with their remote. That's why the remote is so expensive... because it's not just the remote but the transceiver and 2 separate IR "eye" units.


So that means doubt you can use your Yamaha's remote with your Keyboard's IR transceiver to control MCE. I could be wrong... maybe you can, but I don't think so because the keyboard's transceiver drivers are only designed to accept IR commands from that keyboard and convert them into keypresses. The driver won't know how to accept learned commands from your Yamaha's remote and convert them to the appropriate MCE application commands and Windows commands which means you'd have to buy another transciever like the IRman or USB-UIRT. And I don't think MCE knows how to talk directly to either of those transceivers which means you'd have to use Girder to target MCE. That's what I was trying to say... not sure if it said any more clearly though

 

[epshih]

There's already a MCE plugin on the Girder website. I assume it was created because people wanted to use their own remotes to control MCE. If MCE had direct support of popular transceivers/receivers like the USB-UIRT and the IRMan, then I'd assume the Girder plug-in would be unnecessary... but like I said before, I could be wrong.

 

[Status]

Why not just use a mouse? If you have a keyboard hooked up, easy enough to use the mouse too.


I know there are some solutions out on the web for converting the X-10 remote to run most of the MCE remote functions. I'd also assume there are others.


I currently am running a MX-600 to control the whole theater, but have the MCE remote IR USB connector. I also have a Logitech Bluetooth keyboard and mouse that I use with the system. The Media button on the Logitech BT keyboard can be mapped to the MediaCenter.exe.

 

[Magius]

Thank you epshih for clarifying that for me, lol you had me very confused. I'm still not sure why my solution wouldn't work however. Here's an example of what I wanted to do with the keyboard and my remote:


Lets say I install the keyboard, and set up the software to recognize one of the media buttons to launch WMP10. Then I teach the infrared code of that media button to my Yamaha learning remote. From then on the remote should be able to launch WMP10 simply by pressing the assigned button, as the keyboard transceiver just thinks its the keyboard sending the code. Of course some IR devices use strange codes that remotes can't always learn, but for the $15 the IR keyboard costs it's worth a try.


I haven't ever used Girder or IRMan and hope not to ever have to (no offense to the products, I just want something simple ), so hopefully my solution will work fine. I will probably purchase the MCE remote anyway, because as you say there are a lot of specialty buttons and keeping them organized on my learning remote would be a nightmare...


As far as a mouse my IR keyboard has one built in, and I also own a Gyration suite, so in some dire situation where I NEED a mouse I should have it covered. Thanks for all the comments so far!

 

[epshih]

Quote:

Lets say I install the keyboard, and set up the software to recognize one of the media buttons to launch WMP10. Then I teach the infrared code of that media button to my Yamaha learning remote. From then on the remote should be able to launch WMP10 simply by pressing the assigned button, as the keyboard transceiver just thinks its the keyboard sending the code.

Yes that will work. But the only reason it works is because the keyboard's DRIVER WAS SPECIFICALLY WRITTEN TO CONVERT THAT PARTICULAR IR COMMAND INTO A "run wmp10" COMMAND. You don't seem to understand what's happening at the driver level. What button on your keyboard maps to "run MCE"? What key on your keyboard maps to the "Green Button" on the MCE remote? What key on your keyboard maps to "Recorded TV", "Guide", "Live TV", "More Information", "Skip back 7 seconds", and the "record" button???????? How are you going to learn these IR codes into your Yamaha remote? I guess I'm missing something here. If you owned a Pronto or if you understood JP1 programming, then it might be possible to program those IR codes into your remote... BUT IT STILL WOULDN'T WORK ANYWAYS!!! Why? Well..... let's just pretend by some miracle you somehow managed to find those proprietary MCE IR commands and you somehow managed to learn them into your Yamaha remote... ok?


Now what??? What IR receiver are you going to use to read those IR signals? You seem to think you can just us the keyboard's IR receiver. WELL YOU CAN'T. The drivers for that receiver ONLY UNDERSTAND THE IR CODES FOR THE KEYBOARD! It doesn't understand the proprietary IR codes used by Microsoft for these speciality buttons! Yes, the keyboard's drivers can pass keystrokes to any application with focus (including MCE), but it can't pass the special MCE only remote codes becuase those buttons don't correlate to any particular button on the keyboard. That is why you'd have to buy Girder and why you'd have to buy an IRMan.


If this isn't perfectly clear to you, I'm sorry. I really can't say it any better. Maybe someone else can... Perhaps you should go ahead and spend $15 on that keyboard and try it yourself. Then you will understand what I've been trying to explain.

 

[Magius]

LOL epshih I finally understand what you've been trying to tell me. The reason I never got it before is because I never planned to do the things that you're saying won't work.


For example you say "What key on your keyboard maps to "Recorded TV", "Guide", "Live TV", "More Information", "Skip back 7 seconds", and the "record" button???????? " Those are the convenience features that I said would be worth purchasing the real remote for. Without those features however I was still envisioning an enjoyable MCE experience.


For example, I was planning on teaching the Yamaha remote the up/down/left/right keys, as well as enter, and any other necessities, so that I can navigate the MCE front end just as if it were a keyboard. Of course I would lose the special function keys of the remote (Sorry to make you go into so much detail about that, I already knew those keys wouldn't work, I just didn't plan on needing them). The original question was whether or not the remote was NECESSARY because of those special keys, as opposed to a convenience.


The more I've thought about the issue however, I've come to realize I'd like those special buttons. As you can see above I admitted that buying the MCE remote is probably a good idea, even if it means having that remote dedicated to the HTPC and another remote to handle everything else. Thank you for all of your input on this thread, I'm sorry it seemed like I wasn't getting it, we just happened to be talking about different functionality

 

[epshih]

Whew! Magus, I'm glad we finally connected. Sorry, that I didn't get your meaning.


Yeah, you are right. You certainly CAN learn the standard keyboard keys like up/down/left right/enter into your remote and it should work jsut fine as long as the IR frequency is within your remote's capability. I'm sorry for my misunderstanding. I thought I was going t lose my mind trying to explain it


I just installed MCE yesterday so I don't know all the In and Outs of the product, but it looks like you can do most functions with the keyboard. You certainly can do with a keyboard/mouse combo. It's just not really elegant if you're "keyboard only". So yeah, I think you would like the product better with the real remote.


Oh and this is something I've read, but I can't confirm if it's true. What ppl are saying is that MCE cannot control a STB unless you use the original OEM remote and its transceiver. So if you use a STB, you need to buy the remote anyways. If you're planning to use the built-in tuner on your encoder card, then you'd have to option to not buy the OEM remote/transceiver. Good luck with your install.

 

[Magius]

Ah yes it does feel good to be on the same page, lol.


As per my first post: "I read somewhere that part of the MCE setup is pressing remote control buttons to configure the receiver or something?" This is what you mentioned about setting up the STB. I do not currently use a STB but in the very near future (January) I will, so I might as well spring for the remote and get all the neat features that come with it. What's $40 anyway in this hobby?