[jrockhead]

I've been reading with great interest about the Verbatim DVD DL's that everyone seems to be raving about.


I plan on purchasing a Phillips DVDR3576 this week from Sam's. Does this particular unit accept DL media and, if so, is that recommended over regular Verbatim DVD media? I'm not too versed on the different media and what is preferred. I'm looking to archive, for the long haul, family home videos from a Hi-8 Camcorder and material from very old VHS tapes. All would be for long-term storage. It would be great to archive more material on less discs, but retain the best quality available.


I also purchased the Panasonic DMR-EZ48VK unit this week but am not sure I'm going to keep it. Does this machine accept DL discs? Are they recommended over the traditional media?


Thanks!

 

[7558037]

The Philips 3576 doesn't record on DL media.

 

[jjeff]

The Panny records to DL disc but not the Philips. The Philips should play it back though if recorded on something else.

For long term storage I'd personally stick to SL discs. I'd think they'd be more stable.

 

[kjbawc]

SL discs are far cheaper, costing about 20% as much as DL, and will fast forward faster, in my Pio 640. It will burn +R DL media, but I rarely use them. I use them for movies that won't fit on a single SL disc. Some really long films have breaks built into the middle. These I will split at that break, so I can use SL discs. I put them in a double DVD case, so they don't take up more room. Also, I have a couple of DVD changers, so I don't have to get up during the film. Another advantage of using SL discs is that I can do a high-speed backup of them, but can't from a DL disc.

 

[CitiBear]

The compulsion some people feel to use dual-layer discs to archive irreplaceable personal videos completely escapes me: the mere fact that DL exists seems enough to send some folks into a swoon. They should reconsider: given the enormous price penalty, total lack of any dependable choices besides Verbatim (who could change suppliers at any moment), and potential to be much less stable over time, there is really no point whatsoever to dual layer burnable media except to be a feature stenciled on the recorder carton. Unless you are recording "Gone With The Wind", "Lawrence Of Arabia" or the Liz Taylor "Cleopatra" from cable and absolutely insist on having the film on a single disc because you can't be bothered to swap DVDs at the intermission, there is no earthly reason to risk using DL. Stick to quality single layer media for everything you truly value, most especially your family footage.


(Yeah, yeah, I know, I know: some of you think DL is a must-have for preserving full disc quality when backing up commercial DVDs. But think about what you primarily use backups for: your laptop or the 9" screen your kids watch in the car. Can you really see the difference between DL and moderately compressed SL on these portable screens?)

 

[Kelson]



Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear /forum/post/14187969


The compulsion some people feel to use dual-layer discs to archive irreplaceable personal videos completely escapes me: the mere fact that DL exists seems enough to send some folks into a swoon.

Not too many people, otherwise the price would have come down with larger acceptance by the masses. The price of DL media has remained pricey and flat -- no downward movement over the past year and a half.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear /forum/post/14187969


. . . there is really no point whatsoever to dual layer burnable media except to be a feature stenciled on the recorder carton.

I have been saying quite the same thing about "upconversion" in both recorders and inexpensive players. Fuel for marketing and nothing more.

 

[jjeff]

And don't forget about the reason many people might want this feature......just because it could........they may never use it, but hey they could

I'd probably fall into that group but would trade the DL feature for most anything else on my wish list in a heartbeat.

 

[Church AV Guy]

As CitiBear says, there are a few movies longer than, say, 2.5 hours that I have decided to burn to DL media. When I first got a DL capable recorder, I bought fourty or so DL disks, and now, two years later, I still have twenty left. If I had not bought them in the first place, I owuld have been happy to use two SL disks. So, what I am saying is, I use it only because I can, not because it's needed.


It is a bold statement on the carton, but nothing more. It is every bit a gimmik as upconversion.

 

[kjbawc]

I record a lot of movies, and running over 2 hours and 6 minutes, which is what I can get on a SL disc at SP, isn't uncommon. My decision on whether to use a DL disc, or a lower bit-rate on a SL disc is based on several factors.


First, what size monitor do you use? The bigger the monitor, the more important not to reduce the bit-rate. I have a 56" DLP set, so I don't want to go too low.


What sort of program are you recording? B&W, and traditional animation, have less data than a color action extravaganza. I don't mind going as low as MN 19 for that sort of thing, and the PQ loss is negligible.


If I recorded an action pic, with lots of movement, especially from a HD source, well, I prefer a higher bit-rate. So, if it won't fit on a SL disc in SP, I will use a DL disc, at the highest bit-rate that will fit.

 

[Mr. Hanky]

Me personally, I buy the dl's as a single pak, as I need them (because I use them on rare occasion).

The occasion that I find them most useful is when I have captured a "movie trilogy" from broadcast. I would like to put it all on one disc, rather than blow 3 discs on the project. The fact that it comes off of broadcast is part of the issue- usually the quality is not that great for me to feel good about using 1 whole disc for each movie. I could probably put 2 on one sl disc, but then that just feels awkward having to leave the 3rd movie on a separate disc. So the dl seems to be a handy solution in this scenario to squeeze all 3 on a single disc, commensurate with the typical mediocre quality of the broadcast. Outside of that, I don't bother with the dl's.


If you are looking for inexpensive dl media (and available in small qty), I've experienced good results using jvc brand. Conversely, I have had bad results on Memorex brand (I know- duh). The device I was using was a Panasonic ez17. It didn't like the Memorex, at all. Not just valid, but unreliable, burns, but outright coasters from the outset.


Another catch-22 I've experienced, is that even if you burn a dl dvd-r, it is still may not be compatible with just any dvd player that can read dvd-r discs (so you may want to keep that in mind if you would like to make a disc that is universally compatible). The ez17 played them (of course), my older Toshiba did not, but my ps3 and mac did.


I'm not sure how this works out for dl dvd+r (regarding pervasive compatibility). I know my Tosh and my mac's don't read +r (dvd read-only drive), so I don't bother investing much in making discs that definitely won't play in that scenario. I DO use +rw on a regular basis (as opposed to -rw), though, to take advantage of the "automatic finalize-as-you-go" aspect (as opposed to the manual finalizing step that has to happen on -rw). Naturally, dvd-ram is still the "king" when it comes to "hdd on an optical disc" level versatility (chapter editing, deletes, dubbing).

 

[kjbawc]

"Blow three discs on one project?" Even buying in quantity, and on sale, three SL discs are cheaper than one DL disc. I haven't seen DL singles, but I have seen 3 packs for about $8. Way over priced. I prefer separate discs for trilogies, and the more common two-part films. That way, I can make more copies at high-speed if I want to. Also, if one disc goes bad, the other one or two aren't affected. So, our philosophies on the subject are as different as they can be. But of course, you should do it the way you prefer doing it...

 

[Mr. Hanky]

Granted, there is just no beating the price of an sl in quantity. It just feels awkward to only partially fill 1 disc with a single movie (mediocre broadcast quality, so no point in pressing the bitrate particularly high) or fill the disc with 2 movies and put the 3rd on a 2nd disc (still partially filled). So that is where I surmised that putting 3 on a dl has a certain panache to it.

It's never going to make sense on pure price point. It just "feels" right, imo. Since, it is a rare occasion, I can tolerate a "$4 disc". I've only done it 3 times.

To me, it seems better than buying a $30 cakebox of dl discs I may never get to the bottom of, eh?

 

[Church AV Guy]

As I believe I've mentioned in the past, anything shorter than 1.5 hours I use FR, any thing from 1:30 to 2:06 I just use SP, 2:07 to 2:30 I use FR again, but longer then 2:30 I use SP and a DL disk. Mr. Hanky suggested examining the content before making a decision, and that is always a better solution than a rigid decision tree like I use here. In other words these are guidelines, but always be aware of what you are recording. While I use DLs rarely, I *DO* use them at appropriate times. Given the cost, it isn't to save money.

 

[kjbawc]

Actually, I suggested "examining the content," and a few other things, back in post #9.


Mr. Hanky, I can understand how you feel about not filling a disc. All of my SVHS tapes have shorts on them, to fill out the tape, after recording a movie. But, with my Pio 640, I always set it to use the highest bit rate that will accommodate the movie on one disc, regardless of the quality of the original.


Church AV Guy, I may go as far as to put 2.5 hours on a SL disc, if it is an old B&W picture. But, if it is color, and has lots of movement, no way. I can see the difference on my monitor.

 

[Church AV Guy]

I wasn't trying to rob you of your claim to the concept of content examionation, I was just endorsing the idea.

As a disk use example, just last evening, I used two DL disks, one for the director's cut of Amadeus, and the other for Spiderman 3. Spiderman was only 2:20, but a lot of action and detail, Amadeus was slightly over three hours long. I still haven't opened the second twenty disk cakebox of DL disks I bought two years ago, so they are used, but rarely.