AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
291 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Some people say CRT's are not comparable to DLP technology...

But is it my impression or do we have a DLP Projector to make a "face to face" with the fantastic Barco Cine 9, the new Meridian 810 Reference.

Anyone wants to share the experience with this projector, and how it compares to the old CRT'S?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
595 Posts
Well, you know - it's got 'reference' in the name. That both proves it's the best and adds a good fifty grand to the MSRP.


From a bit of quick googling, it looks like an expensive gimmick. Woo, you can upscale 1080p to 2-bajillion-whatever-p! Everyone knows that more pixels are better, right?


My guess? The panels used were made for simulation, not theater, and the light path the same. You're probably trading off contrast and color quality to get a totally useless pixel count. Woohoo!



But, hey, if you must spend tons of cash to prove your home theater dong hangs lower than those of your Ferrari-toodling, McMansion-dwelling neighbors - by all means. God knows you're not buying it for the performance anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,936 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeriSoft /forum/post/16969711


Well, you know - it's got 'reference' in the name. That both proves it's the best and adds a good fifty grand to the MSRP.


From a bit of quick googling, it looks like an expensive gimmick. Woo, you can upscale 1080p to 2-bajillion-whatever-p! Everyone knows that more pixels are better, right?


My guess? The panels used were made for simulation, not theater, and the light path the same. You're probably trading off contrast and color quality to get a totally useless pixel count. Woohoo!



But, hey, if you must spend tons of cash to prove your home theater dong hangs lower than those of your Ferrari-toodling, McMansion-dwelling neighbors - by all means. God knows you're not buying it for the performance anyway.

Really ,tell us what you think, I think you're holding back a bit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,507 Posts
What's the deal coldmachine, you say you've auditioned it, trashed it above, but then slag others for bashing the 'reference' label'?


I've never seen it, don't care to, as I'll never own one, but o question that the pseudo audio/videophile companies do throw the 'reference' term around far too much, and do add a surcharge to the price tag. I'd say for home use, the Wilson speakers could be considered a 'reference', but I don't recall them ever throwing that label on their products. THen again, I could be wrong, as I'll never own a pair of Wilsons either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
595 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine /forum/post/16969948


Wow, you Googled it.


What you're really saying is that you actually don't have a frieakin' clue what you're on about....and you're sporting a massive, jealousy driven, inferiority complex to boot.

Yeah, you got me. It eats me up that I don't have two hundred grand to blow on a home theater. I buy the Robb Report in airport terminals and daydream in my coach seats. I run up credit card debt at Crate and Barrel because it makes me feel like I'm worth something.


Tell you what - I'm working pretty hard to make myself a pile of cash. But for me, money means freedom, the ability to choose what I do with my life, and an education and security for my son. If I get enough of it, it'll mean a Maserati Quattroporte, because they're freakin' gorgeous.


But it doesn't mean auditioning $200k-+ equipment just because I can. And it doesn't mean that I'm going to confuse quality and costliness.


There's an awful lot of 'seriously underwhelming' garbage out there that gets sold because it has a big price tag and sycophantic salesmen. I'm saying that projector is a gimmick marketed on price, not performance.


And you apparently agree with my assessment of it, to boot - but if the only way you can react to my sarcastic putdown of the target audience is by trotting out the tired old "But but.. you WISH YOU WERE RICH! Like MEEEEE!" (if I had a dollar for every time I've seen that one on a forum, I'd be able to use it myself) then I guess I'll just have to go watch "MTV Cribs" and clench my ******* in suppressed self-hatred.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
20,735 Posts
They aren't comparable displays. The only thing the Cine9 has going for it really in comparison is on/off CR. The 810 is the JVC 4K dila projector, and it is stunning. It is also WAYYYY brighter than a Cine9, and can obviously support extremely large screen sizes in comparison. You can't really compare them because they just don't support the same kind of screen/system.


And to the OP, the 810 is not a DLP projector.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
20,735 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeriSoft /forum/post/16970039


Yeah, you got me. It eats me up that I don't have two hundred grand to blow on a home theater. I buy the Robb Report in airport terminals and daydream in my coach seats. I run up credit card debt at Crate and Barrel because it makes me feel like I'm worth something.


Tell you what - I'm working pretty hard to make myself a pile of cash. But for me, money means freedom, the ability to choose what I do with my life, and an education and security for my son. If I get enough of it, it'll mean a Maserati Quattroporte, because they're freakin' gorgeous.


But it doesn't mean auditioning $200k-+ equipment just because I can. And it doesn't mean that I'm going to confuse quality and costliness.


There's an awful lot of 'seriously underwhelming' garbage out there that gets sold because it has a big price tag and sycophantic salesmen. I'm saying that projector is a gimmick marketed on price, not performance.


And you apparently agree with my assessment of it, to boot - but if the only way you can react to my sarcastic putdown of the target audience is by trotting out the tired old "But but.. you WISH YOU WERE RICH! Like MEEEEE!" (if I had a dollar for every time I've seen that one on a forum, I'd be able to use it myself) then I guess I'll just have to go watch "MTV Cribs" and clench my ******* in suppressed self-hatred.

Okay, well given how much a Cine9 cost, seems like you're being a little bit irrational?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,188 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeriSoft /forum/post/16970039


I'm saying that projector is a gimmick marketed on price, not performance.

How did you get to that conclusion? It looks like you got there with Google and making assumptions.


One of the issues coldmachine has with it is the ANSI CR since it isn't nearly as good as DLPs in general. But it is way better than any CRT I've ever measured or seen results for and probably better than I've ever seen from film, based on the measurements for ANSI CR with this one I saw from him. I don't know what the Cine9 does for ANSI CR, but the Sony G90 seems to be around 130:1 and this projector looks like it is capable of twice that and maybe higher depending on setup. While it is fair that coldmachine's eyes have so much trouble with the ANSI CR of this Meridian I don't think it is that huge a deal if it is significantly better than one of the best CRTs in that department and probably better than film in 95% of film setups (and maybe closer to 100%). And compared to many bright 3 chip DLPs (not counting the Lumis which may have lower native on/off CR, but has higher total on/off CR with its dynamic on/off CR) the Meridian looks like it has higher on/off CR, if it is close to the specs.


I know there are other issues coldmachine has with it, but just addressing one thing that might not bother many others nearly as much as him, as people have different things that really stand out to them.


--Darin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
595 Posts
I made no judgment on whether it's GOOD, or whether it has better (whatever) than a Cine9. I'm saying that you're paying for the name and prestige, not for the hardware - and that the price/performance ratio is almost undoubtedly way the hell out of whack for home theater usage. What does the extra hundred and fifty grand get you over a $30k-ish projector? Or a $10k-ish projector? Extra pixels that aren't in the source. ANSI isn't better. On/Off isn't better. Brightness might be, but you have to be running an enormous screen to take advantage, and there are vastly cheaper ways to get 4k lumens even if you ARE running an enormous screen. You're buying a piece of industrial gear with a label. It's inappropriate overkill, like getting a 20' CNC laser table to cut mdf for your garage shelves. Yeah, it's technically better, in some ways, but fundamentally it's just silliness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,672 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme /forum/post/16969989


What's the deal coldmachine, you say you've auditioned it, trashed it above, but then slag others for bashing the 'reference' label'?

Curt, that's not how it went down. I questioned the motives of one guy who felt that a quick Google, and a green eyed rant, was sufficient to warrant judgment on the machine and those who'd buy it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,188 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeriSoft /forum/post/16971112


Extra pixels that aren't in the source.

Sort of like when people were running DVDs at higher than 480p resolution. Out of curiosity, what resolution do you use for DVDs? And please don't tell me it is different because at your viewing ratio upscaling makes sense when upscaling 1080p makes sense at viewing ratios some people would choose if they had a projector like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeriSoft /forum/post/16971112


On/Off isn't better. Brightness might be, but you have to be running an enormous screen to take advantage, and there are vastly cheaper ways to get 4k lumens even if you ARE running an enormous screen.

How do you get 4k lumens with as much on/off CR? Or did you mean that on/off CR isn't better if you don't need the lumens?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeriSoft /forum/post/16971112


It's inappropriate overkill, ...

There are obviously cases where it would be inappropriate overkill, but that is also the case with pretty much any high end product. The Cine9 would be inappropriate overkill for certain setups.


It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a greater than $100k product would be overkill for most people. This thing isn't designed for the average installation. Shocking, huh?



--Darin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
595 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 /forum/post/16971168


Sort of like when people were running DVDs at higher than 480p resolution. Out of curiosity, what resolution do you use for DVDs? And please don't tell me it is different because at your viewing ratio upscaling makes sense when upscaling 1080p makes sense at viewing ratios some people would choose if they had a projector like this.

Fair enough, if you like to sit at .5x screen width than very good upscaling from 1080p to 2500p might be useful. But that's kind of a ludicrous thing to do unless you're running imax content - directors don't SHOOT for .5x screen width seating. But my further point will still apply...

Quote:
How do you get 4k lumens with as much on/off CR? Or did you mean that on/off CR isn't better if you don't need the lumens?

There are obviously cases where it would be inappropriate overkill, but that is also the case with pretty much any high end product. The Cine9 would be inappropriate overkill for certain setups.

I meant that you can get equivalent CR specs from projectors costing 1/10th as much.


Yes, there are some installations where massive lumens and >1080p might be useful. And in that case, buy the JVC original, and not the "I'M RICH!!!!" model with the $50,000 sucker sticker on the side.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
20,735 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeriSoft /forum/post/16971227


Fair enough, if you like to sit at .5x screen width than very good upscaling from 1080p to 2500p might be useful. But that's kind of a ludicrous thing to do unless you're running imax content - directors don't SHOOT for .5x screen width seating. But my further point will still apply...


So if you're sitting say 1 to 1.5 SW away, you think a digital at 1080p is enough resolution? I don't. You can still see jaggies that close, certainly at 1x.

Quote:
I meant that you can get equivalent CR specs from projectors costing 1/10th as much.

Sure. Way WAYY less than that. You could get a machine with far BETTER on/off CR specs for probably a hundred bucks. Probably less than that. So what?


Quote:
Yes, there are some installations where massive lumens and >1080p might be useful. And in that case, buy the JVC original, and not the "I'M RICH!!!!" model with the $50,000 sucker sticker on the side.

Right. So you're picking two COMPLETELY incomparable and disparate projectors, taking the side that you only need a small screen, don't need massive lumens, and are sitting at a far ratio from the screen, and then bashing the projector which is a totally inappropriate choice for that type of application, and then you bash it further simply because it is expensive (to you).


You know what would be even MORE expensive, and with a sucker-billboard plastered on the side? Trying to achieve what that JVC can achieve with Cine9 projectors. Extremely bright commercial and Dcinema projectors are very expensive, and the JVC is not in any way an anomaly there. The Cine9 is also very expensive.

Quote:
Everyone knows that more pixels are better, right?

As for this statement, if we hold all other attributes equal, more display pixels are better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,672 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeriSoft /forum/post/16971227


Yes, there are some installations where massive lumens and >1080p might be useful. And in that case, buy the JVC original, and not the "I'M RICH!!!!" model with the $50,000 sucker sticker on the side.

That statement right there is a perfect illustration of how out of your depth you are here. You obviously don't really understand what the 810 actually is, and how it differs from the JVC unit its based on. Its also why I called your post into question, despite not liking the machine myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,507 Posts
I don't know diddlley about the 810, I have heard it's a tricked out JVC unit, that's about it, but I find it interesting the interest in very large screens for HT use. Now that digitals are at the point where you can throw say a 10' wide image +, I see more and more posts in the >$20K forum of people doing this (Cineramax, Art, etc.).


As stated above though, there are only select few that can afford these types of projectors/systems, and with the dropping cost of CRT, a 'good' display for the do it yourself (cheap) guys like myself is more possible than ever. To each their own. I'm guessing that the typical cost per hour for someone with a $50K digital projector is $15-20, a figure that I personally can't afford. More power (and lumens) to those that do, but I'm perfectly happy at my $.25 to $1.00 per hour of runtime of my used, refurbished CRT.


If a digital came on the market that was complete 3D, where I could walk into the scene and view the movie/show all around me, at $100K+, I still wouldn't buy one, and would be happy with my 2D CRT projector.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
291 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I respect everyones opinion here.

Besides Curt Palm, you are very respectable in the "CRT World" and speaking frankly i love the Cine 9, however we have to understand that new technologies are actually coming with great picture quality.


But is as you say.... cost matters.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,327 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMSMT /forum/post/16973408


I respect everyones opinion here.

Besides Curt Palm, you are very respectable in the "CRT World" and speaking frankly i love the Cine 9, however we have to understand that new technologies are actually coming with great picture quality.


But is as you say.... cost matters.

Have you even seen a projector or are you basing everything off of what you have read? You wanted a Cine 9 and now you want a digital. Do you even have a budget or are you just trolling?


Perisoft,

So, where is the dividing line? Would digital guys call you an idiot for buying a brand new CRT at $40k to $50k? Do you think the price/performance is out of whack between a $7k JVC and a $45k VDC 9500? Please don't bring used into the equation, because that is bs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
595 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo /forum/post/16977245


Perisoft,

So, where is the dividing line? Would digital guys call you an idiot for buying a brand new CRT at $40k to $50k?

Well, since I'd have to take a mortgage out to do it, they'd be right!


Quote:
Do you think the price/performance is out of whack between a $7k JVC and a $45k VDC 9500? Please don't bring used into the equation, because that is bs.

Probably, yeah. And not bringing used into the equation... why not? Anyway, if we assume that getting something new is ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED, then yeah, the price/performance is out of whack in an objective sense. Now, if you just like CRT because of the feel or the blacks or whatever, and your budget is really high.. then maybe it's OK.


But buying a $45k VDC is at least an 'honest' price - not one artificially inflated by a shiny label and a slick brochure. THAT'S what I object to, not expensive things per se.


I feel the same way about the Runcos that were really Zeniths with a nicer case - the case and the label cost god knows how much more. You can get plasmas with a fancy brand name that have the exact same electronics and cost five times as much.


If you buy a Maserati... well, it's expensive as hell, and certainly to some extent you're paying for the name... but at least you can't get one anywhere else. You're not an idiot for buying a Maserati - but you WOULD be an idiot for buying a Maserati that was a Honda Civic with the name badge changed.


To continue the car theme, I happen to think that Hyundai Sonatas around 2003 until 2005 or so were absolutely drop-dead gorgeous cars. To me, they look as good on the outside as most BMWs or Mercedes - I'm sure the fit and finish isn't as good, performance isn't as good, etc... but even if I were wealthy enough to afford a BMW, I'm not so sure I wouldn't get the Hyundai instead. I just LIKE it, and I don't care about the name badge or the prestige. My sense of prestige and self-worth comes internally, from what I accomplish, from how good of a dad I am, from how good of a person I am - not from the labels on my clothes, watch, projector, or car.


The attitude I see among a lot of wealthy forumites here, and among magazines targeted at the rich, and among a number of wealthy people who are customers of mine, is that wealth is its own end, that the idea is to prove how rich you are. It's not explicit, of course, but it's a clear subtext. And when someone comes along and tries to poke a hole in that balloon, the only answer I ever see is, "You're jealous!" People can't even conceive of other people not wanting to be like them. I find that kind of sad.


I'd like to qualify this by saying that this isn't something universal to rich people - that's absolutely not true. I also know a guy who invested in a company a customer of mine started. This guy is one of the richest guys in Finland. He's got a Ford GT, and he met us at his shop in it when I was in Helsinki. He came roaring up in this gorgeous car, and got out wearing ratty pants stained with oil, a ripped up shop shirt, and dirty hands; he said he was working on the car. That guy was cool, and he had a Ford GT not because it's expensive, but because he's a huge fan of the cars. He was absolutely genuine, an entrepreneur at heart, and spent his money on stuff he liked - it WAS expensive, but he didn't spend it on things BECAUSE they were expensive. He never tricked himself into thinking that was worthwhile.


So... does that answer your question?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,355 Posts
For what its worth, you can find old New stock CRT's if you look for way below retail, one of the 15 2004 8500 ultra Longbows is left on ebay for 2600, i paid less than that for two.


And I now there are some new old stock G90's and barco 909/cine9's out there you will get way below retail.


But like Curt I just like the feel of CRT over digital, i dont care if its not a razor sharp, its a certain feel to the image i dont get with digital.


Athanasios
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top