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Discussion Starter #1
jfvnav a.revr...........cmdskcnW C
 

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Why do I feel like you are trying to sell something?
 

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All sizzle no steak, please identify what makes the MF2 different from the JVC RS2, does it have a different lens?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG /forum/post/13657805


All sizzle no steak, please identify what makes the MF2 different from the JVC RS2, does it have a different lens?

+1. What is the difference between the two?
 

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According to Meridian's website, this projector has an astounding contrast ratio of 2100:1. It must be based on some earlier D-ILA iteration.
 

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Thank you for posting detailed impressions about those two projectors. Although some of it I have to admit comes off a little "dealer-like" , if you will.


About this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HCCDesignGuy /forum/post/13657643



To begin with, for all of those who are somewhat familiar with Meridian’s projectors you already know their projectors are based on certain JVC chassis’. That being said I want to go ahead and address the remark I hear all the time, which is that it’s tough to justify buying a “tweaked-out” JVC projector.


The MF2 is a FAR CRY from the JVC RSII. The JVC RSII; while a great projector which certainly walks all over many projectors in, below & above its price point IS NOT a Meridian MF2. .


That's the claim I hear every time a dealer is trying to sell me a re-badged display from Bang and Olufsen, Meridian, Runco etc. It's typically asserted, just like that. When I ask "Ok, what specifically are the differences" I tend to get a bit of foot shuffling or vague references "trust me, what they do with this really makes a difference, it ain't no off the shelf display."


Unfortunately often enough, what I see is no better (sometimes even worse) than the off the shelf display. I remember auditioning a Runco version of my own plasma that was 4 times more expensive than what I paid for mine, and even after an ISF calibration if anything it looked LESS impressive than the image I got at home. I've had other similar experiences, like others here, which is one reason we tend to demand a little more detail than "trust me, this thing is different from the model it's based on."


With that in mind, could you please tell us the technical differences betwen the Meridian and the JVC RS2. What exactly has Meridian done that should make us expect a better image?


Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I suppose I should know better then to offer any type of review of either of these projectors on this forum. Hopefully this response will adress many of the comments I've seen thus far & perhaps some that are coming.


I understand that many who frequent this forum have perhaps a bad taste in their mouth when it comes to any "Luxury" product as these manufacturers tend not to put much effort in getting their products reviewed_ thus many might think it's intentional.


I decided to actually take the time to publish a review of these 2 displays because I have encountered many people who initially found me on this web sight who have commented numerous times that they can't find any information on Runco, Meridian & many other exotic/luxury video products.


While I'd love to sell everyone on this forum something the reality is that if you're not in my territory I would never just sell you a part that we were not going to also install, it would put me in violation of my dealer agreements.


I'm disappointed that I am actually allowing myself to get sucked into an explanation of my review_ which is exactly why I said that I would prefer folks PM me instead of me having to explain what me & 2 others (well 3 others but I can't imagine discussing the opinion of the Meridian rep based on his projector) experienced. Me asking for PMs has nothing to do with trying to sell someone something though I'll gladly take you're money if you want to make a purchase



As for the comment about "rebadged product"...I've got news for everyone who has this misconception that if a company starts with a platform that someone else created they are simply retagging someone else’s product…unless you’re buying a Sony, Panasonic, Fujitsu, Mitsubishi/NEC, Sharp, Samsung or Toshiba product the chances are pretty good that whatever hi-end or low end widget you own is likely based from a platform that one of these guys OEMs or that some OEM that OEMs for them has offered an unauthorized version of their widget to anyone willing to buy it. The fact is that there are a lot more companies who are creating a superior product based on tweaks to someone elses base chassis or transport then there are actual manufactures of this stuff.


There is certainly a fair amount of product available which is truly a re-badge with no difference aside form the name & possibly the case & of course the price. That being said, all the products outlined by "Harkness"_ even the B&O products are not simple re-badges. If you were told that they are, I'm afraid you've been misinformed…well at least in most cases they are not simple re-badges.


Think of these products like cars…I bet there is a whole lot of people on this forum that perhaps drive a Cadillac Escalade…what is the difference between it and a fully loaded Suburban? Or perhaps you drive a Mercedes CL65 AMG…I mean that’s the same car as a 600 right, so why on earth would you pay 25k more?...None of these vehicles feel the same, or performs the same, even though with no transmission, engine mods & body styling kits they are the EXACT SAME VEHICLES.


Runco plasma panels, while I won't argue with anyone that the NEC panels they have been based on in the past look pretty close in terms of image quality if you're not using a DHD model even the models with the on-board scaler do in fact look different. They do have a different scaler board, a different screen surface, different bezel & different warranty. When you have a problem with a Runco you can also get it resolves with ease which is not the case with NEC or any other large Japanese outfit.


Is this difference worth the money…I suppose that depends on what type of client you are. I believe you would find that if you were my client you would get an extremely honest explanation of why one might or might not by a Runco over an NEC.


With B&O, while not a huge believer or fan in that company, I can say that the B&O TVs are specifically tuned to work with specific B&O products & of course are designed to function as a system. If some B&O dealer is trying to sell you just a TV they are not looking to do you any favors but if you have a B&O system & you decide to do a Panasonic display with a B&O trim bezel you are not going to get the same calibration result_ especially if you are relying on the Panasonic on-board scaler. All that said, if you're a B&O client I don't really understand why when it comes time to get the TV one would bark & get on their hi-horse with this whole value-issue...who the heck buys B&O if they are looking for value for godness sake???


While it was clear that I reviewed the Runco vs the Meridian & not the Meridian vs the JVC I was of course certain that I would get challenged on the difference between the 2.


With the Meridian projectors, the differences on what they do to these projectors vary depending on the model .


The MF2 gets the least amount of treatment but what it gets offers a significant difference in performance when compared to the JVC RS2. To begin, Meridian orders JVC RS2s in lots of 20 at a time. Of that twenty, on average Meridian returns 12 back to JVC because they don't meet the minimum tolerances required for Meridian to even consider it to be a good starting platform.


Once they’ve made their selections of acceptable platforms they replace the lamp, fire it up & burn it in for 48 hours in the mounting position required by the client. While can't really come up with an effective way to describe in this post what happens during the first time a lamp strobes nor can I tell you how much of a performance difference this actually makes, the fact is that if a projector is going to be ceiling mounted, the first time the lamp turns on should be done with the projector mounted the same way it will be mounted when it is installed in your home.


Anyway, once the projector has been run for 48 hours, a proprietary software upgrade is done to the projector which makes some significant alterations to the OEM look-up tables. Once this has been completed & tested the projector is then ISF calibrated to a Stewart StudioTek 130 screen by William Phelps; who also has created this software suite.


If you go with a model that includes an outboard scaler then the scaler also is macthed to the projector to be certain the calibration is perfect.


For those real tweaks out there I'll be completely honest with you; you could theoretically buy an RS2 & send it to William Phelps to have him perform the upgrade & probably save few bucks. The missing links in going this route is 1st that Meridian only accepts 40% of the projectors they receive from JVC as a platform which they feel can deliver the performance they need to achieve. This is not likely a luxury that any of us have. 2nd is that as soon as William Phelps cracks an RS2 open for you JVC no longer warranties your projector. Even if you could pass a sly one over on JVC & get a defective projector repaired under warranty by JVC, you are then subject to having to pay Mr. Phelps to redo this process for you.


The best comparison for such a product takes me back to cars. Let's think of a Dinan tuned BMW. You can save money and create your own Dinan BMW if you want to deal with the responsibility of being a DIY & void your warranty or you can pay a little more, KNOW that it's done right and have the confidence that when you pull the car up to your dealer to have a warranty service done that the service writer isn't going to laugh in your face when he opens the hood or sees the exhaust system.


One last comment in response to a reply made by Lawguy regarding the specifications, please forward me the spec sheet you have. I say this because I am not sure that Meridian has actually released any info on the new MF2. I know the sheet they have on their sight right now is not the actual model they are shipping but rather some prototype. The specifications listed on this document are not accurate. That said please note that Meridian is going to publish real-world specs based on real professional methods in deriving numbers, not methods that many manufacturers have begun to adopt to make their products look like something amazing.
 

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You are now claiming an optimization done by Willam Phelps voids the warranty on the projector?
 

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"as soon as William Phelps cracks an RS2 open for you JVC no longer warranties your projector."


Is Wm calibrating RS2's now? If so this is good news for RS2 owners. Last I heard though none of his tools would work with the new JVC RS architecture. Oh yeah and the statement above is bunk.
 

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With the earlier JVC's I thought Wm Phelps calibration involved a specialist software tool and access to certain data on the PJ via RS232 rather than opening the case type adjustement etc.


I second Mark's question. Is Wm P now able to provide the same level of calibration on the new D-ILA tech that he achieved on the older platform?


D
 

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I think the OP is mistaken because, among other things, according to Meridian's website, this projector only has a contrast ratio of 2100:1. How can it be based on the RS2?

http://www.meridian-audio.com/p_mf2.htm


These are its specs:

Quote:
Model: Meridian Faroudja D-ILA1080MF2 Home Theatre Projector


Imaging Device: 3-chip D-ILA® (0.82-inch diagonal)


Aspect Ratio: 16:9


Screen size/Throw: 40in to 200in (16:9)/1.6m to 10.5m (16:9)


Resolution: 1920 x 1080 pixels (16:9) x 3 chips


Total resolution: Approx. 6,220,000 pixels


Projection Lens: 1.3x zoom lens (1.8:1 - 2.35:1, manual zoom/manual focus, 50% offset). Wide conversion lens attachment option


Light-source: 250 W Ultra-high pressure mercury lamp [Part No. BHL5006-S]


Contrast Ratio: 2100:1


Colour Temperature: D65/user selectable 1/user selectable 2


Gamma Control: Normal, A, B, and Custom


Video Input: Digital x1 (HDCP compatible DVI-D) Serial


Control: RS-232C x1


Power Input: 100V-240V AC, 50/60Hz


Rated Power: 3.5 A (100 V AC) – 1.4 A (240V AC)


Dimensions: (W x H x D) 11¾in x 5¼in 14-3/16in (298 x 134 x 360mm) without protrusions


Weight: 13.66 lbs (6.2kg)
 

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Lawguy - He probably meant he reviewed an MF10.

http://nicollpr.com/MERIDIAN/Files/M...F10FinalPR.pdf


What's interesting about the OP's posts is that Wm is now uploading look-up tables. This could mean they get accurate colors without the need for an external VP. Very curious about this...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans /forum/post/13663277


Lawguy - He probably meant he reviewed an MF10.

http://nicollpr.com/MERIDIAN/Files/M...F10FinalPR.pdf


What's interesting about the OP's posts is that Wm is now uploading look-up tables. This could mean they get accurate colors without the need for an external VP. Very curious about this...

I thought Tom had already said that the current RS/HD color gamut issue could not be addressed by software alone.



D
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy /forum/post/13662465


I think the OP is mistaken because, among other things, according to Meridian's website, this projector only has a contrast ratio of 2100:1. How can it be based on the RS2?

http://www.meridian-audio.com/p_mf2.htm


These are its specs:

The MF1 is based on the JVC HD10k which according to the Merdian spec has a contrst of 2500:1 and has a similar appearance to the JVC. The MF2 has a lower claimed contrast (2100:1) and looks more like it's based the old HD2K ( http://www.projectorcentral.com/JVC-DLA-HD2K-SYS.htm claimed contrast 2000:1) model not the RS2/HD100. If it is based on the old platform it probably can be calibrated by Wm. I think the confusion is around the MF2 being based on the new RS2 platform which it doesn't appear to be.


D
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans /forum/post/13663277


Lawguy - He probably meant he reviewed an MF10.

If he couldn't get the model number right, I wouldn't rely on what he says about William Phelp's involvement.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans /forum/post/13663277


Lawguy - He probably meant he reviewed an MF10.

http://nicollpr.com/MERIDIAN/Files/M...F10FinalPR.pdf


No mention of Wm Phelps in the press release and they have typcially made a big play on the "Optimized by William Phelps" with their other products.


"While video performance is indisputably the MF10’s key feature,
Meridian has also engineered numerous intelligent design touches. An

extremely low-noise cooling system maintains quiet installations, with

both intake and exhaust located on the front panel, making location

close to the rear wall practicable, for tidy layout and maximal throwdistance.

Lens-shifts of 80 percent horizontal and 34 percent vertical

further enhance design and installation adaptability, while the MF10’s

side-access lamp compartment makes renewal simple even for ceilingmounted

installations."


And I thought it was "engineered" by JVC



D
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx /forum/post/13663466


The MF1 is based on the JVC HD10k which according to the Merdian spec has a contrst of 2500:1 and has a similar appearance to the JVC. The MF2 has a lower claimed contrast (2100:1) and looks more like it's based the old HD2K ( http://www.projectorcentral.com/JVC-DLA-HD2K-SYS.htm claimed contrast 2000:1) model not the RS2/HD100. If it is based on the old platform it probably can be calibrated by Wm. I think the confusion is around the MF2 being based on the new RS2 platform which it doesn't appear to be.


D

Bingo! Yes, I think you're right. It's been awhile since people discussed the MF1 and MF2 but I believe the MF2 is the HD2K based variant that wasn't discussed much (the MF1 was the machine to get at the time).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans /forum/post/0


What's interesting about the OP's posts is that Wm is now uploading look-up tables. This could mean they get accurate colors without the need for an external VP. Very curious about this...

Wm had full access to the LUT's in the old JVC architecture which is how he was able to get such good results with shading, D65 greyscale tracking and gamma adjustments.


Unfortunately having LUT access doesn't allow a person to adjust the color gamut so that option is out for RS1/RS2 owners (they'll need to get a VP for that). It's also an open question if Wm has LUT access for the RS1/RS2, last I heard this wasn't the case but I know he was working on it. I assume that if he did have LUT access that Meridian would be offering an optimized version of the RS2 by now, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
 

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"the first time the lamp turns on should be done with the projector mounted the same way it will be mounted when it is installed in your home."


Most interesting.


"Once this has been completed & tested the projector is then ISF calibrated to a Stewart StudioTek 130 screen by William Phelps; who also has created this software suite."


I wonder if wm has an exclusive arrangement w/Meridian, and the reason we don't see him around here is to avoid being hounded for his treatment.
 

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I think the reason we don't see him around here is that the process he was famous for is not possible on the current JVC products.

I remember seeing the MF2 back in 2006 - it was a nice projector - nicer in some ways than the HD1, but the black level was just typical of the time.


It's a shame that the newer JVCs can't be worked on by Mr Phelps as a high-end DILA would be welcome imo.
 

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I also think the reason you don't see William post here anymore is because his character and integrity was attacked by some forum members when he went from his G90 to digital.
 
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