[BlackCat]

hello all,


This is doing my head in!! :


We all know that the mobile Althon (Barton) is arguably the best current HTPC CPU in terms of cost, performance, overclocking and underclocking/volting.


Also, you'd really want to use it in a small motherboard - who wants a big box under their telly!??


So why is it almost impossible to find a decent Micro-ATX board supporting the mobile Athlon with:


- underclockability/undervoltability (for running as cool as pos).

- a decent chipset (eg nForce) with good onboard video/5.1 sound

- all the other usual nice features (USB2 etc)


I was convinced that there's be a million such products due to the obvious market for them, but I'm now google-eyed with no luck yet.


Does anyone here know of such a micro-ATX board which would meet the above??

 

[nadroj81]

I just purchased the Shuttle SN41g2V2. It was like 270bucks, I am putting an athlon 2600+ (barton i beleive) in, it has 400FSB i beleive, and takese PC2700 333ddr ram. It also has the 150watt silent power supply. and is overclockable. has 1pci expansion slot and 1agp expansion slot. As it does have SPDIF in out also. I have chosen to use a 2 channel sound card. I should have it built by the end of this week.

 

[BlackCat]

Is it undervoltable/underclockable though ?

 

[nadroj81]

Not sure, but they run very cool anyway. they have some ICE cooler thing or something. I don't forsee a problem.

 

[madpoet]

I'd argue that for HTPC use, the 2.8c is a better deal than the Mobile barton. There is no doubt however that it requires a little more money and a lot mroe cooling.

 

[mike_decock]

I just built my HTPC this weekend using a Shuttle MN31N .


You can underclock (not shure about undervoltage but I can check on that), has onboard GeForce4 MX (dual VGA), onboard 5.1 (also has a S/PDIF header), LAN, USB 2.0 and FireWire. Not bad for $77.


-Mike...

 

[BlackCat]

Quote:

Originally posted by madpoet I'd argue that for HTPC use, the 2.8c is a better deal than the Mobile barton. There is no doubt however that it requires a little more money and a lot mroe cooling.

My main concerns are noise, heat and power draw (all related) as it will be on all the time.


Raw processing grunt is not so much of an issue since it wont be encoding (only decoding).


I've seen some amazing figures regarding the low power draw of the Altlon XPM at 1.1v (something like 12w IIRC) while still at good enough performance levels.


But this always seems to be on an ATX m/b - cant seem to find an undervoltable mATX board.


I use a P4 2.4c for my work machine, and that sucks power and makes too much noise (without expensive cooling)!! Plus P4 boards don't generally have embedded video/audio to the quality of (from an HTPC perspective) nForce 2.


The other option is a Via Eden based box, but that probably doesnt have the grunt (at least until the 1.2G is available in a few weeks, which is too late

).


I dont know why board manufacturers cant quote these things in their manuals - life would be so much easier!!

 

[BlackCat]

Quote:

Originally posted by mike_decock I just built my HTPC this weekend using a Shuttle MN31N . You can underclock (not shure about undervoltage but I can check on that), has onboard GeForce4 MX (dual VGA), onboard 5.1 (also has a S/PDIF header), LAN, USB 2.0 and FireWire. Not bad for $77. -Mike...

Yeah if you wouldnt mind checking that would be great


What CPU do you have in there - is it the mobile Athlon (Barton) ??


How noisy is it??


Can you buy just the board (the Shuttle lunchbox format wont work with the rest of my gear) ???


Questions questions!!

 

[BlackCat]

D'oh sorry I'm being an idiot - that was the board you were talking about

 

[justcallmefrank]

I'm using an Asus A7V8X-MX SE. Perfect considering it only cost AU$105 which is very cheap here, and it fits a Zalman 7000ACu heatsink. I've got an Athlon XP 2600+ at standard speeds, and even with it tucked in an VCR enclosure and the 60mm case fan 5v'ed the highest temperature I've seen is 54 degrees celcius.


Coupled with my 400W Zalman PSU, the HTPC is quieter than my fridge, even the whine of the TV with no signal is arguably louder. The HDD is definetly the noisiest part of my PC.


I've coupled mine with a Radeon 9600SE video card, and in the coming month I'll have a modified M-Audio Revolution in it. The current sound is ok in stereo, and works well enough in 5.1 mode, but decent audio gear REALLY shows up it's quality. I'd be buying a real sound card for a HTPC anyway. That aside, it has 6 USB 2.0 ports and if you really wanted you can get an optional digital out board for it if you wanted to go that way.


Hope that helps. Got any questions just shoot. One word of warning, if you do choose to get one with that particular Zalman CPU cooler, put some electrical tape over the filter and the cap nearest the bracket, you'll end up with some problems

 

[justcallmefrank]

Oh, and the 54 degrees I registered was after subjecting it to Burn In Test for about 3 hours straight. Idles at 51 degrees. Testament to the heat dissapating qualities of a big hunk of copper mounted on your CPU

 

[BlackCat]

Quote:

Originally posted by justcallmefrank I'm using an Asus A7V8X-MX SE. Perfect considering it only cost AU$105 which is very cheap here, and it fits a Zalman 7000ACu heatsink. I've got an Athlon XP 2600+ at standard speeds, and even with it tucked in an VCR enclosure and the 60mm case fan 5v'ed the highest temperature I've seen is 54 degrees celcius. Coupled with my 400W Zalman PSU, the HTPC is quieter than my fridge, even the whine of the TV with no signal is arguably louder. The HDD is definetly the noisiest part of my PC. I've coupled mine with a Radeon 9600SE video card, and in the coming month I'll have a modified M-Audio Revolution in it. The current sound is ok in stereo, and works well enough in 5.1 mode, but decent audio gear REALLY shows up it's quality. I'd be buying a real sound card for a HTPC anyway. That aside, it has 6 USB 2.0 ports and if you really wanted you can get an optional digital out board for it if you wanted to go that way. Hope that helps. Got any questions just shoot. One word of warning, if you do choose to get one with that particular Zalman CPU cooler, put some electrical tape over the filter and the cap nearest the bracket, you'll end up with some problems

Thanks for that - very useful!!


As usual though some questions!!


Where did you buy it (the board) from (I'm down under too)?


Have you any idea what it's power consumption is when idle?


Can you undervolt/clock it?


Were the integrated Unichrome graphics any good for MP2/4 playback ?


What is your display device - tv/hdtv/etc?


I'd be using SP/DIF out into a receiver or hifi, so I assume the integrated sound would be ok for that (ie. its the analog amp which is crap not the rest of the sound path).

 

[justcallmefrank]

Ahh ****, you're in WA! Navada have these in stock in both the Osborne Park and Greenwood stores. Not sure about the power consumption sorry, never bothered to look.


Underclocking is not a problem, don't know about undervolting on this board though. Having said that, I wouldn't be concerned about that for the moment. Athlon's are tough little buggers in regards to heat and I wouldn't be worrying about heat till its above the 70 degree mark. Just put the HTPC back together and after about 90 mins of solid 100% CPU usage it's reached 51 degrees, although not in the VCR enclosure. Like last time, it'll only get cooler as the Arctic Silver 5 cures.


I assume the integrated graphics would work fine. I needed S-Video for my home setup, so I needed another card. They won't do custom resolutions if you ever wanted to do a native widescreen resolution. I know that much. I've tested it with a Z1 projector and it looked really nice, it'd be nice to see what it would look like if I had the time to fiddle with it like that. I can't remember whether it does hardware MPEG decoding though. I need that to watch HDTV.


Although it comes with the S/PDIF built onto the board, I've not seen someone actually sell the board for it. It's a separate bit, and it will take up a spot on the back of the case.


I've actually got a spare board if you want it cheap. I thought there was something wrong, but I'd just been a bit stupid with my installation of the Zalman cooler. I put the bracket on, and it appeared to clear everything but then once I put the HSF on it would contact one of the filters. Every now and then it would lock up. I bought a new board then realised what I'd done

 

[BlackCat]

Yes - might well be interested in that. Could you check the BIOS and see what voltage adjustments are allowed??


Also - a long shot here - do the initials ITI Pty mean anything to you???

 

[justcallmefrank]

Ok, will try and do so tomorrow. I don't have a keyboard connected to it usually, and my mum is watching it now. It's so nice to have it finally working 100%.

 

[Lifter]

I just bought an Antec Aria micro ATX case. I threw in the new mATX DFI (the ONLY mATX mobo that has a RAID controller), an Athlon 64 3000+, and a 9800pro. This was meant as a portable video editing rig, not an HTPC (my HTPC is a huge noisy beast that lives in the laundry room so it can't be heard). I had to throw in a Firewire card and a Blackmagic Design SDI-capture card, for editing purposes. That left one slot open, and since the case has no built in fan, I had to use it for a slot fan.


I am extremely dissapointed. The CPU has overheated numerous times and automatically shutdown. I'm not overclocking, and the fan is that giant Zalman one (turned all the way up). Also, the Radeon overheats whenever I run 3DMark.


What scares me is how hot the hard drive is getting. I've heard it click a few times already. Even more scary is that there's space in there for two more drives, which until now I was going to use for the RAID controller!

 

[justcallmefrank]

That sounds like there is a problem mate. That Zalman cools really well when cranked. Is there any case fans?

 

[Lifter]

None, and no spaces for any. It just came with a PCI-slot fan. I'm not completely shooting down this case, but with an AMD64 and a 9800, it's too much heat for it.


I'm getting a giant HSF that attaches to the GPU and blows air out the adjacent slot bracket. Hopefully that'll do it.

 

[justcallmefrank]

Desktop cases are bad as it is, but they need at least a little ventilation. Damn, that sounds really bad. They should have put a little more thought into the ventilation.

 

[mike_decock]

Quote:

Originally posted by BlackCat Yeah if you wouldnt mind checking that would be great

I haven't checked my board yet (don't have a keyboard hooked up right now), but according to this OCWorkbench review, there are no voltage adjustments or multiplier controls in the BIOS (I don't remember seeing them).

Quote:

What CPU do you have in there - is it the mobile Athlon (Barton) ??

I'm using a vanilla XP 2000+ cooled by a Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu at the lowest speed. I checked the temperature in the BIOS at idle and it was something like 38C so I haven't even bothered running a temperature monitor. I'll do some load testing and temperature monitoring this weekend.

Quote:

How noisy is it??

I have it installed in an Antec Aria (same as the one Lifter has, I believe). It's fairly quiet (quieter than my projector), but since it's currently on a rack right next to my head it's still not as quiet as I was hoping for. Even so, it's not an annoying whine like some systems and I don't even notice it when I'm watching a movie. When I move the rack further away from my seats, I don't think it will be an issue at all.


Since I'm running absolutely everything off the mobo (that was why I picked it), the only thing I have in the expansion slots is the slot cooler. I haven't had any of the overheating issues that Lifter mentioned, but keep in mind, I'm running no additional cards and a different CPU. YMMV.

Quote:

Can you buy just the board (the Shuttle lunchbox format wont work with the rest of my gear) ???

Yup. It'll fit in any uATX case. Just make sure the PSU doesn't get in the way of the HSF.


The only issue I have with my current setup is that PowerStrip isn't fully compatible with the geForce4 MX because it uses a different oscillator speed. It just means that the reported Refresh Rate doesn't match the actual refresh rate. I created a thread about this at the Entech Forum if you want to see the details. Hopefully they'll fix it in the next release, but in the meantime, you just need to do a little arithmatic to work around the problem.


-Mike...