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Interesting article about problems with Microsoft's WMV9 codec. Apparently Microsoft has been trying to railroad the standardization process, not all of it's performance claims have held up in testing, delivery may be late, and licensing may be a problem. All of this is triggering speculation that it might be pulled from both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD standards. MPEG-4 now appears to be the leader in both performance and licensing.

http://www.eet.com/article/printable...axonomyID=4217
 

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Originally posted by kevinca1
good article. hope it is true i belive blu ray should be the next format.
Why, because it's Microsoft? :rolleyes:


I want the best format to win. I don't care who it's from.
 

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It's a good article. But it sounds like it's really just a turf war, with no technical problems for VC-1 or advantage for mpeg4 cited, except that the testers are grumbling about not being provided a reference VC-1 decoder and streams. The issues will probably put additional delays on the timeframe for Blue Ray and HD-DVD. I don't think Blu Ray can risk not including a MS licensed encoder. They could find themselves obsoleted early in the product life cycle.

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At the heart of the issues that have slowed SMPTE's standardization process lies the industry's general suspicion of Microsoft. One industry analyst characterized Microsoft's donation of WMV9 to SMPTE as a "calculated maneuver to gain respect for the proprietary technology" from the broadcast and movie industries. With the move, the analyst added, Microsoft singlehandedly undermined years of intensive H.264/MPEG-4 AVC joint development efforts by the ITU and MPEG, and derailed the industry's embrace of H.264 as a standard.
 

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Lots of anti-MS folks trying to railroad VC9 in the SMPTE...it's unfortunate.
 

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...and Blu Ray needs to hit a home run first time at bat. Microsoft has basically shown with WMV-HD that you don't need a new DVD disk format to distribute or play HD content.
 

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Originally posted by kevinca1
if you want the best to win then you would also want blu ray.
Way too early in this ballgame to know any of this with certainty, imho.
 

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first sony blu ray owns two major studios. second toshiba is not a company i would trust to make a player. they are not really a top notch company just look at the upscale player they had to recall and you want them to make hd-dvd?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by kevinca1
first sony blu ray owns two major studios. second toshiba is not a company i would trust to make a player. they are not really a top notch company just look at the upscale player they had to recall and you want them to make hd-dvd?
Oh, I though we were discussing Sony vs. Microsoft. (LOL, it seems we can't escape these two companies dominating just about every electronics market, from gaming on through, can we?)


I am dreading a world where all my electronics and entertainment choices are dependent on these two companies and everyone else is way back in the distance, or bought out and/or snuffed out.


I feel like this is slowly becoming reality and that's makes me very sad and dismayed. That's one of the reasons why I'll continue to support Nintendo in the gaming market until the bitter end. The console world desperately needs them more than ever. Electronics? I try to avoid both Sony and MS as much as possible.


I agree with you about Toshiba, but uh...Sony doesn't exactly have a stirling reputation, either, especially with under $500 products. They're known for overpriced products that are decent, but can be had elsewhere for less.


And we all know about MS in the PC market. ;)
 

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yea ill agree about sony. but i would rather have somone that has a way better rep and usally better quailty and owns major studio while toshiba does not and they seem to be leading the hd-dvd camp. so would you rather have a company that did own stuidos and can put out a lot of content or a player that does not and may not get any studio backing.
 

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Sony > Toshiba. You won't get any argument from me on that point whatsoever. :)
 

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It all comes down to content, sony has studios to back up blu ray this is the most important part. if hd-dvd get all the other studios behind them we have sacd dvd audio, betamax vhs all over again. also if ps3 has blu ray this may be the thing that will be the most major part.
 

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We're going to have it again. This is going to be Beta vs. VHS all over again. More accurately: Look at SACD and DVD-A right now. I think those are an excellent indicator of where this will be going, at least in the early years.
 

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It is a shame they did not actually fact check before publishing.


They also don't mention that AVC (H.264) filters out film grain prior to encode and then regenerates film grain after decode. VC-1 does not have to do that, it maintains the film grain. This is one reason that AVC always came in at least 3rd in blind tests, after both MPEG-2 and VC-1.


Personally I would prefer MPEG2 at 24 Mbps than AVC at 15-Mbps.

http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/mee...redmond_pr.htm

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and the film industry now has the ability to analyze and synthesize the representation of film grain for high quality consumer applications.
 

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Yes it would be nice instead of having another format war. The studios are the ones who need to back one or the other. sony blu ray now has there own studios behind them. i remeber when i bought my first dvd player when they first came out there was hardly any titles and it was very frustrating i had a player that was a great piece of equiptment but no software to back it up. boy did i have second thoughts but i saw such a difference i stayed with it. now will there be that much of difference between hd-dvd blu-ray that most people will be so wowed they will have to have it. i have seen t2 in wmv and really it is not that wow factor as it was with vhs. seems we get caught up in all these format wars and not sure who really wins,
 

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Kevin - if you followed the debate about WMV/VC-9/VC-1, then you know that Microsoft's codec was picked by both groups (HD-DVD & BR). The major issue between BR and HD-DVD is at the physical level, and this is something that is irrelevant to MSFT's codec. I, too, hope that BR will win (and with the PS3 just about guaranteeing 100 million+ users inside of two years, I think it will...), but I also want the best codec to be the dominant one.


Later,

Bill
 
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