[nathanddrews]

 http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/Set-your-calendar-PC-Perspective-GDC-14-DirectX-12-Live-Blog-Coming


Compatible hardware (but may not support ALL DX12 features):


Intel 4th-gen IGP and up

AMD Graphics Core Next, GCN 1.1, and up

Nvidia Fermi, Kepler, Maxwell, and up

Qualcomm mobile support

Xbox One support

Drastically reduced CPU overhead

Greater multicore support

Closer to the metal

Broad developer and vendor support


This is quite a massive change to DX and a major boon to PC gaming.

 

[nathanddrews]

Microsoft was asked if it will be supported under Windows 7 (still the gamer platform of choice by a wide margin). They said they "won't be announcing anything today but [we] understand the request."

 

[HeadRusch]

This will no doubt be the vehicle Microsoft uses to force the rest of us to Windows 8...........but no need to fear, like the first year or two of consoles, there's that developer learning curve where the performance sucks and the results are less than spectacular....

 

[bd2003]

OpenGL has been making just as much noise about reducing driver overhead lately. So within a few years we'll have devs primarily targeting DX12 for windows/WinPhone/Xbox or OpenGL for PS4/Windows/Max/Linux/iOS/mobile. Mantle is basically a non-factor now.


I still can't help but feel that OpenGL is the more attractive choice there, but PC gaming is still entrenched with DX. At least competition is finally heating up after years of complacency.

 

[HeadRusch]

I don't need a return to the wild west days of ISA slots and DOS and the pre-DX days when nothing really worked very well for the first month....sure we're a long way away from that level of development and everything is much more tightly integrated than in those 'good old days' of the late 80's and early 90's.........

Gaining frames is great....but the tradeoff's have to be managed.


Having said all that.........DX is probably bloated with features like every OS and such goes through........and if you can get a 50% or 100% increase in frames...then you really need to stop and look at DX and go "Microsoft...wtf!?"

 

[nathanddrews]

This is just a shakeup that was a long time coming. Microsoft is usually a sluggard until someone encroaches too far on their turf.


1. OpenGL has been making a lot of noise and actively pursuing developers

2. AMD is pushing Mantle

3. Valve wants to reduce dependency on DX and Windows for the sake of truly cross-platform development and gameplay

4. The PS4 is beating Xbone in sales and performance

5. NVIDIA (the second largest GPU supplier if you count Intel) doesn't even support DX11.2 with its newest hardware! (Maxwell)

6. Microsoft can hardly get anyone to program beyond base DX11

7. Windows Phone is still struggling

8. Windows 8 is still struggling


Basically, DX11.whatever was a technological dead end and there were too many viable alternatives available or brewing. Microsoft has to unite the clans to keep control and order.

 

[bd2003]



Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews  /t/1523480/microsoft-details-dx12/0_50#post_24512323


This is just a shakeup that was a long time coming. Microsoft is usually a sluggard until someone encroaches too far on their turf.


1. OpenGL has been making a lot of noise and actively pursuing developers

2. AMD is pushing Mantle

3. Valve wants to reduce dependency on DX and Windows for the sake of truly cross-platform development and gameplay

4. The PS4 is beating Xbone in sales and performance

5. NVIDIA (the second largest GPU supplier if you count Intel) doesn't even support DX11.2 with its newest hardware! (Maxwell)

6. Microsoft can hardly get anyone to program beyond base DX11

7. Windows Phone is still struggling

8. Windows 8 is still struggling


Basically, DX11.whatever was a technological dead end and there were too many viable alternatives available or brewing. Microsoft has to unite the clans to keep control and order.

Instead of a feudal lord who dictates the direction of the industry (and can leave it to rot like they did for the past 5 years), wouldn't it be better for everyone to have a democratic open standard like OpenGL?


In order for DX to retain it's dominance, MS has to turn around all 8 of those points you raised. I just can't see that happening. That being said, I hope DX12 is excellent and the competition stays alive, but I've lost faith in MS as a leader on this front...this situation is entirely of their own making.

 

[HeadRusch]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003  /t/1523480/microsoft-details-dx12#post_24512630


Instead of a feudal lord who dictates the direction of the industry (and can leave it to rot like they did for the past 5 years), wouldn't it be better for everyone to have a democratic open standard like OpenGL?

No, not even a little bit. I don't want the API for all my video games to be left to a bunch of guys who think the Linux model is a great way to lead.

 

[bd2003]



Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch  /t/1523480/microsoft-details-dx12/0_50#post_24512767


No, not even a little bit. I don't want the API for all my video games to be left to a bunch of guys who think the Linux model is a great way to lead.

OpenGL isn't open source (or rather open spec) like Linux. It's developed via a consortium that includes basically every player in the game....it's more akin to something like wifi.


It's prob inevitable that OpenGL swallows up PC gaming like it has everything else anyway, but it sure is nice to see MS perk up all of a sudden. Who knows, maybe it'll be so good it'll delay the inevitable for another few years.

 

[nathanddrews]

Most of the players behind OpenGL are also helping Microsoft with DX.

 

[bd2003]



Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews  /t/1523480/microsoft-details-dx12#post_24513453


Most of the players behind OpenGL are also helping Microsoft with DX.

 

I'm sure...they don't really care which API you use as long as you buy their graphics cards. They want to make sure that they're a part of all the conversations.

 

[nathanddrews]

In fact, here's a 100+ slide presentation by Intel, AMD, and NVIDIA talking about using the same tricks to improve OpenGL:

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/opengl-gdc2014/

 

[HeadRusch]

Nice, I didn't realize OpenGL was more formally organized...sure, around forever I should have put 2 and 2 together.........even still, in the end I understand the need for a centralized point of direction (even if it means someone or some group eventually becomes a bit of a Despot)......

Microsoft is the Devil We Know....

 

[bd2003]



Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch  /t/1523480/microsoft-details-dx12/0_50#post_24524199


Nice, I didn't realize OpenGL was more formally organized...sure, around forever I should have put 2 and 2 together.........even still, in the end I understand the need for a centralized point of direction (even if it means someone or some group eventually becomes a bit of a Despot)......

Microsoft is the Devil We Know....

That approach has it's advantages, as long as the one in charge still has their eye on the ball. As long as MS has console aspirations I don't think they should be the ones on charge of the direction of PC gaming.

 

[LexInVA]



Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch  /t/1523480/microsoft-details-dx12#post_24524199


Nice, I didn't realize OpenGL was more formally organized...sure, around forever I should have put 2 and 2 together.........even still, in the end I understand the need for a centralized point of direction (even if it means someone or some group eventually becomes a bit of a Despot)......

Microsoft is the Devil We Know....

OpenGL = Hundreds of companies working together to make something.


DirectX = Microsoft and a few tech companies working together to make their proprietary technologies standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003  /t/1523480/microsoft-details-dx12#post_24511957


OpenGL has been making just as much noise about reducing driver overhead lately. So within a few years we'll have devs primarily targeting DX12 for windows/WinPhone/Xbox or OpenGL for PS4/Windows/Max/Linux/iOS/mobile. Mantle is basically a non-factor now.


I still can't help but feel that OpenGL is the more attractive choice there, but PC gaming is still entrenched with DX. At least competition is finally heating up after years of complacency.

OpenGL is definitely more attractive to developers. Tons of OpenGL programmers these days due to it being the API of choice for Android and Apple's ecosystem and backwards compatibility is far easier to boot. Many older DirectX games from the heyday of PC gaming (Windows 9x and XP) don't work with the current DirectX ecosystem and cannot be updated to work with today's hardware and software without retooling the game engines. OpenGL games from the old days on the other hand, work just fine if not significantly better than they did back then.

 

[bd2003]



Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA  /t/1523480/microsoft-details-dx12/0_50#post_24527922


OpenGL = Hundreds of companies working together to make something.


DirectX = Microsoft and a few tech companies working together to make their proprietary technologies standard.

OpenGL is definitely more attractive to developers. Tons of OpenGL programmers these days due to it being the API of choice for Android and Apple's ecosystem and backwards compatibility is far easier to boot. Many older DirectX games from the heyday of PC gaming (Windows 9x and XP) don't work with the current DirectX ecosystem and cannot be updated to work with today's hardware and software without retooling the game engines. OpenGL games from the old days on the other hand, work just fine if not significantly better than they did back then.

Yeah....what's different nowadays is that there's a lot more platforms to consider. Back when DX began it's entrenchment, there really wasn't anything to develop for but windows. So it became the de facto standard by default. Windows remains important, but it's not the only game in town anymore.


Despite that this has been going on for years, there still hasn't been much movement towards OpenGL for PC games though. So maybe dx12 is going to make it just in time to stay relevant.