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Discussion Starter #1
if my couch is 18" off the backwall, can I reasonably get a 7.1 system set up?

What would be the minimum distance for the rear surrounds in a 7.1 system?
 

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Also in this example like to know about what height should the rear surrounds be assuming you plan to have overhead Atmos speakers at some point?? Ear level or 1-2 feet. My MLP is only 2.5-3 ft off rear wall
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Also I'd like to know about what height should the rear surrounds be assuming you plan to have overhead Atmos speakers at some point?? Ear level or 1-2 feet above
I've heard 18" above ear level for rear-surrounds.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The crazy part is there is no guide for a close backwall. I think ideal would be 6' for monopole but I'm curious if that changes for bi-pole or di-pole.
 

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3' is recommended as the minimum.

Maybe try front heights or wides instead...?
 

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18" is not enough for a traditional 7 channel setup (standard or immersive).
With only that little space I would recommend your surrounds be to the side of you at about 95-100° or 6-8" behind your couch for mono-poles or 90° to the side for a bi-pole. (Di-poles would also be out, they are designed to help fill out a larger space behind you, and ever since the development of 7 channels discrete, and immersive, there basically never recommended anymore.)

Speaker height should be either one of these:
- If there's ever the hint of a chance that you'll go to immersive audio, they should be high enough that you have a clear line of sight from the tweeter to the person sitting on the opposite side of the couch/room's ear level. This way their sound won't be blocked.
- If you'll "never" do immersive, about 18" off the ceiling.

Depending on how much space you have in front or how wide it is, you could possibly go 7 channel with Wides instead of Rears.
 

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I have tower speakers for rear surrounds and I can say 6 feet is too close, it scares the crap out of me at times.. my surrounds are 12 feet left and 6 feet right, i sit on the end of couch as mlp.
 
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I have my rear surrounds at about ear level when I'm standing; I read that recommendation somewhere and it works just fine.

My couch is about 12inches from the back wall so if I'm in the middle of the couch the surrounds are about 5 or 6 feet from my ears and about 3 or 4 feet higher than my ears; the rear surrounds are toed in on shelves.

Sounds very very good in 5.1 with the AVR settings reflecting that distance.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
18" is not enough for a traditional 7 channel setup (standard or immersive).
With only that little space I would recommend your surrounds be to the side of you at about 95-100° or 6-8" behind your couch for mono-poles or 90° to the side for a bi-pole. (Di-poles would also be out, they are designed to help fill out a larger space behind you, and ever since the development of 7 channels discrete, and immersive, there basically never recommended anymore.)

Speaker height should be either one of these:
- If there's ever the hint of a chance that you'll go to immersive audio, they should be high enough that you have a clear line of sight from the tweeter to the person sitting on the opposite side of the couch/room's ear level. This way their sound won't be blocked.
- If you'll "never" do immersive, about 18" off the ceiling.

Depending on how much space you have in front or how wide it is, you could possibly go 7 channel with Wides instead of Rears.
I'm doing 5.2.4 or 7.2.4 (starting 5.2.4). So if listening position is at 48", put them at 44"?

I have Paradigm surround 1's so they are bi-pole. I was looking at right around 90 or a little in front based (95 deg) on how close the bipoles are to the rear wall, thoughts (see pic below).

3' is recommended as the minimum.

Maybe try front heights or wides instead...?
I'm doing 5.2.4 to start. Curious which would work better. My ceiling is only 7'2" and I have atmos so my guess is wides. How far out would the wides go? I don't think I could reasonably pull it off given my room configuration (thoughts? see pic)

In the pic the option 1f, is a 2 tweeter in-wall about 5.5' up (2ish' above listening position) and it's a dual tweeter Paradigm CI Pro 80-SM running in stereo. I'm just going to wire everything for now and perhaps do it later if I don't do wides.

Surround Layout.png
 

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I don't have Atmos, nor am I very informed....I will defer to others more knowledgeable than myself. :)
 

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I'm doing 5.2.4 or 7.2.4 (starting 5.2.4). So if listening position is at 48", put them at 44"?

I have Paradigm surround 1's so they are bi-pole. I was looking at right around 90 or a little in front based (95 deg) on how close the bipoles are to the rear wall, thoughts (see pic below).



I'm doing 5.2.4 to start. Curious which would work better. My ceiling is only 7'2" and I have atmos so my guess is wides. How far out would the wides go? I don't think I could reasonably pull it off given my room configuration (thoughts? see pic)

In the pic the option 1f, is a 2 tweeter in-wall about 5.5' up (2ish' above listening position) and it's a dual tweeter Paradigm CI Pro 80-SM running in stereo. I'm just going to wire everything for now and perhaps do it later if I don't do wides.

View attachment 1330674
I hope I can describe this well enough.
Surround speaker height:
Normal seated ear level is about 36" or so, so I'll use that as an example, so then top of head would be 40" or so, and you want the height of the tweeters about 48" so that the sound from the tweeter of the speaker would have an unobstructed line of fire to the person's ear on the opposite side the couch.
Positioning:
Since they're bi-poles and you say you have about 18" from the back of the couch to the rear wall, if you look at the lower left diagram, I'd place them a little farther back than that, maybe so that flat part of the speaker was in line with the back of couch. Then I'd place the TR speakers in the ceiling about 6-8" in front of that (about 24-26" from the wall- considering the 18" clearance you've mentioned) then place the TF dead center between the TR & a line directly above your Fronts.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
side hieght, are rears a good idea, if not then wides?

I hope I can describe this well enough.
Surround speaker height:
Normal seated ear level is about 36" or so, so I'll use that as an example, so then top of head would be 40" or so, and you want the height of the tweeters about 48" so that the sound from the tweeter of the speaker would have an unobstructed line of fire to the person's ear on the opposite side the couch.
Positioning:
Since they're bi-poles and you say you have about 18" from the back of the couch to the rear wall, if you look at the lower left diagram, I'd place them a little farther back than that, maybe so that flat part of the speaker was in line with the back of couch. Then I'd place the TR speakers in the ceiling about 6-8" in front of that (about 24-26" from the wall- considering the 18" clearance you've mentioned) then place the TF dead center between the TR & a line directly above your Fronts.
I meant for the side surrounds.

For side surrounds (bipoles)
Have them about 48" at 90 deg? Could/should I have them slightly ahead (95 deg) of the ear so I can get a better angle off of the back wall? The side surround-bipoles are about 2' 8" off the back wall.

I went down stairs and 48" high would be completely unobstructed across the room.

For rear surrounds (in-wall dual tweeter playing stereo)

I was thinking doing this above the listening position by 18" because there is only about 18" to 24" between the ears and the wall. Therefore, I don't want people to get blasted. I'm thinking in-wall to maximize the amount of space between peoples ears and the speaker position.

Wides:

I could forget the rears because it's a questionable set up and go wides.Here is a thread I started for that, just in case the rears detract from the experience. I don't know much about wides
 

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I meant for the side surrounds.

For side surrounds (bipoles)
Have them about 48" at 90 deg? Could/should I have them slightly ahead (95 deg) of the ear so I can get a better angle off of the back wall? The side surround-bipoles are about 2' 8" off the back wall.

I went down stairs and 48" high would be completely unobstructed across the room.

For rear surrounds (in-wall dual tweeter playing stereo)

I was thinking doing this above the listening position by 18" because there is only about 18" to 24" between the ears and the wall. Therefore, I don't want people to get blasted. I'm thinking in-wall to maximize the amount of space between peoples ears and the speaker position.

Wides:

I could forget the rears because it's a questionable set up and go wides.Here is a thread I started for that, just in case the rears detract from the experience. I don't know much about wides
I have a suggestion that should give you really good coverage and 7.1.4, but it depends on which receiver you're using?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I have a suggestion that should give you really good coverage and 7.1.4, but it depends on which receiver you're using?
Marantz SR7010 which allows for 11.2 with an external amp
 

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Marantz SR7010 which allows for 11.2 with an external amp
Excellent, because Yamaha doesn't allow this specific configuration. It's been reported that this setup a really good compromise for just your situation with limited rear space. (Completely forgot about this earlier)

Working off the surrounds where I mentioned them earlier:
-Place your in-wall mono-pole Rears at 6' high, or half the distance between your surrounds and the ceiling.
-Then place your Tops/In-ceiling where I suggested earlier.
Now, when you do your speaker assignments you call your rear overheads TM and your front overheads FH. I know they're not in the FH position, but the measurements overlap enough that it won't matter, and no AVR will let you assign TF & TM at the same time.

The reasoning for this is two fold:
1. Most sounds going to the TR, RH & Rears are very similar and tend to overlap more than you would think in the soundtrack rendering.
2. Your TM (rear overheads) really do need to be farther away from the rear wall than just a foot or so, and the mounting position puts them perfectly in the TM spot.
Plus myself and others have experimented with choosing FH or TF in the speaker assignment menu and they rendering is very close to the same when it comes to sound placement.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Excellent, because Yamaha doesn't allow this specific configuration. It's been reported that this setup a really good compromise for just your situation with limited rear space. (Completely forgot about this earlier)

Working off the surrounds where I mentioned them earlier:
-Place your in-wall mono-pole Rears at 6' high, or half the distance between your surrounds and the ceiling.
-Then place your Tops/In-ceiling where I suggested earlier.
Now, when you do your speaker assignments you call your rear overheads TM and your front overheads FH. I know they're not in the FH position, but the measurements overlap enough that it won't matter, and no AVR will let you assign TF & TM at the same time.

The reasoning for this is two fold:
1. Most sounds going to the TR, RH & Rears are very similar and tend to overlap more than you would think in the soundtrack rendering.
2. Your TM (rear overheads) really do need to be farther away from the rear wall than just a foot or so, and the mounting position puts them perfectly in the TM spot.
Plus myself and others have experimented with choosing FH or TF in the speaker assignment menu and they rendering is very close to the same when it comes to sound placement.
Just so I can get this sorted out for a drawing. What does each of these mean?

FH
TM
TF
TR
RH
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Front Height
Top Middle
Top Front
Top Rear
Rear Height
Wouldn't top Front, Middle, and Rear have a X.1.6 setup? I thought for atmos there were Front Top and Rear Top?

Front and Rear heights are from Pre-Atmos era correct?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I see

top layout.png

So in this diagram they do not have rear surrounds, correct?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Excellent, because Yamaha doesn't allow this specific configuration. It's been reported that this setup a really good compromise for just your situation with limited rear space. (Completely forgot about this earlier)

Working off the surrounds where I mentioned them earlier:
-Place your in-wall mono-pole Rears at 6' high, or half the distance between your surrounds and the ceiling.
-Then place your Tops/In-ceiling where I suggested earlier.
Now, when you do your speaker assignments you call your rear overheads TM and your front overheads FH. I know they're not in the FH position, but the measurements overlap enough that it won't matter, and no AVR will let you assign TF & TM at the same time.

The reasoning for this is two fold:
1. Most sounds going to the TR, RH & Rears are very similar and tend to overlap more than you would think in the soundtrack rendering.
2. Your TM (rear overheads) really do need to be farther away from the rear wall than just a foot or so, and the mounting position puts them perfectly in the TM spot.
Plus myself and others have experimented with choosing FH or TF in the speaker assignment menu and they rendering is very close to the same when it comes to sound placement.
Is this what you mean?
7.1.4.png
 
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